[Rogue] Long Cooldowns, dodgeable blind etc.

90 Night Elf Rogue
7015
Going right to the point.

Our cooldowns are on way too high of a CD.
Evasion - 3 min
Blind - 3 min
Cloak of Shadows - 2 min
Vanish - 3 min
(I'm fine with smoke bomb being 3 min)


Seriously, as of right now (and I'm fearing it'll be the same at 90) that if I want to duel somebody, I'm now going to have to wait 3 minutes to do so? Right now it's almost impossible to win without at least 2 of the listed CDs up there. It's ridiculous. I'm useless in a BG without at least having vanish or cloak up. Once I'm in a root, I'm finished.

Blind is now dodgeable? And let's not forget about Scatter Shot. Wtf is this? I could have sworn the whole reason why RNG mace stuns were removed, on top of other random things, because it wasn't fun / unskilled. So now what happens when my 3 MINUTE COOLDOWN BLIND gets dodged?

I'm okay with our damage, if played right we can still be devastating. But holy smokes, lower our CDs, please! Picking up Prep doesn't cut it either. I honestly think Prep should be something we get for simply being Subt, not as a talent!! Replace Prep with something else!

(Maybe with something like, for the next 3 seconds after using sprint, we're immune to roots/slows? It'll be on a 1min CD. That's just off the top of my head. I'd rather have that or shadow step instead of Burst of Speed. But that's just my thought / opinion from the top of my head.)

Honestly, our CDs need a reduction:
Evasion from 3min, to 2min
Blind from 3min, to 1.5min
Cloak of Shadows from 2min, to 1.5min (and not share with Combat Readiness.)
Vanish from 3min, to at least 2min (would be so nice to have it at 1.5min)


Lastly, why is our Shadow Dance now using our stealth bar? I don't recall ever seeing anybody complain about it not being our stealth bar. Please, revert it back.
Edited by Resistancz on 9/11/2012 7:47 AM PDT
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90 Gnome Warrior
13755
I feel sorta the same way. I don't play a rogue but still.

The only real problem with rogues are the self heals I think.

I still can get killed within a stun on my pally against a rogue unless I trinket the opener stun or bubble.
Either way he can blind and get the re stealth. Does the same thing.
Even if I pop Divine protection (while having it glyphed for it) he still burns through me with ease.
If I bubble or trinket the 2nd opener. Vanish.
Granted he is using 2200 daggers and 2 piece pve. Still have no idea what I could do. If I don't pop CD's he will out damage me.
I tried kiting with freedoms, ret snares and healing myself but he is able to control me the entire duel.
It's probably a different story in Arenas.
Defiantly sounds like rogues are doing bad in bgs but feels like everything is pretty unbalanced now in bgs seeing how healers cast 1 heal and get from 20% to max. Or boomkins out healing resto druids.

Other classes it should be different in duels but they still feel like they have sooo much utility it hurts.

Also I Vote blizzard resets CDs when you accept a duel and after a duel.
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90 Human Warrior
14640
Thanks for bringing this to our attention, please allow blind to be parryable too, kind regards all plate dps.
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90 Orc Shaman
15380
rogue tears... so delicious
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90 Night Elf Rogue
7015
09/08/2012 07:45 AMPosted by Kataclyzmik
rogue tears... so delicious


It's not so much complaining, as these are legit problems. Before the patch, Rogues were strong, sure. OP though? I wouldn't go that far. Any classes can be considered OP if paired with the right class. Hunter/Rogue, Warrior/lock, Lock/moonkin, Ret/Warrior etc. I am of course, talking about 3v3 here if you add in a healer to those combinations.

It's one thing to tone a class down, and another to absolutely destroy them.

(deleted this as a reply, instead used it as a quote reply.)
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90 Night Elf Rogue
7015
I feel sorta the same way. I don't play a rogue but still.

The only real problem with rogues are the self heals I think.

Also I Vote blizzard resets CDs when you accept a duel and after a duel.


I only skimmed through your post, and just now noticed your last sentence. I actually love that idea!

And as far as self heals, our recuperate got nerfed. But I'm not going to complain / worry about that. They also nerfed it to 2% every 3 seconds while in a BG/arena, which I'm THINK is not intended. If it is, that's only doing 2800 healing every 3 seconds, or about 933 every second, which of course, is !@#$.
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86 Goblin Shaman
8895
09/08/2012 05:47 AMPosted by Goliath
Also I Vote blizzard resets CDs when you accept a duel and after a duel.

I remember reading a developer response to something like this. They said they want to avoid doing that, as you could turn around and duel a friend after a vicious world PvP battle, giving you the cooldowns again to potentially camp someone who has a decent chance at fighting you when they have full health.
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85 Human Warrior
5930
No sympathy for Rogues. None at all.

09/08/2012 08:04 AMPosted by Resistancz
It's one thing to tone a class down, and another to absolutely destroy them.
I doubt you were defending Warriors during Cata when they were totally gibbed. Now Rogues and Warriors have switched places, and it's the end of the world because the class you rolled just for the purpose of wrecking anything else got nerfed?
Edited by Skwish on 9/8/2012 10:48 AM PDT
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90 Night Elf Rogue
7015
No sympathy for Rogues. None at all.

It's one thing to tone a class down, and another to absolutely destroy them.
I doubt you were defending Warriors during Cata when they were totally gibbed. Now Rogues and Warriors have switched places, and it's the end of the world because the class you rolled just for the purpose of wrecking anything else got nerfed?


Warriors never really were in a terrible of a position as you claim. No offense, but you probably just sucked. And I didn't roll this class to "wreck" anything else. I've been a Rogue and nothing else since June of 2006. Sure, Warriors had a higher skill cap, but like I said before, there's a huge different between toning a class down, and completely !@#$ing them over.

Don't be upset with me, be upset at Blizzard for making changes the way they are / were. Just like how I am. I never mentioned anything about our damage being weak. I'm simply talking about our long %^- cooldowns, RNG with blind, and the way our talents are spread out (prep / step thing being the biggest one, I'd say.)
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85 Human Warrior
5930
09/08/2012 11:08 AMPosted by Resistancz
Warriors never really were in a terrible of a position as you claim
You have got to be kidding me. Warriors had tons upon tons of issues during all of Cata except for maybe season nine.
Edited by Skwish on 9/8/2012 11:26 AM PDT
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90 Human Mage
7135
09/08/2012 10:41 AMPosted by Skwish
No sympathy for Rogues. None at all.


For the same reason, season 10 and 11 were Warriors paying for season 9 while the rest of us laughed.

After a while, you realize that Blizzard really does enjoy letting some classes stay overpowered for a long time but then nerfing them to trash for a few reasons to make up for it.

The obvious exception there is Mages because Ghostcrawler plays one and thus we are outside of the circle.
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85 Troll Warrior
6270
09/08/2012 11:20 AMPosted by Skwish
Warriors never really were in a terrible of a position as you claim
You have got to be kidding me. Warriors had tons upon tons of issues during all of Cata except for maybe season nine.


I thought that it wasn't that warriors were horrible, it was that other melee classes just offered so much MORE than warriors could.
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85 Human Warrior
5930
It was a mixture of both. We had to be baby sat 24/7 to be able to connect to anything, had a mediocre MS (compared to Necrotic Strike and Wound Poison), had really poor mobility, lack luster burst, poor defensive abilities, etc
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90 Human Warrior
10675
Evasion - 3 min
Blind - 3 min
Cloak of Shadows - 2 min
Vanish - 3 min


shieldwall 5 minutes. AND throws away 90% of our offensive pressure. AND can be prevented by a simple disarm.

Yeah, you rogues really have it tough.
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Gotta say, blind being dodgeable is kind of goofy if it's on a 3 min cd, and can't be reduced with talents or spec.

I don't think most medium to longish cd-based abilities can be avoided by a built-in mechanic like that.
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90 Troll Shaman
8585
I am amazed at how quickly people seemed to have forgotten (Rogues included) how patently over powered Rogues were prior to patch 5****. Not merely "strong", but clearly and obviously over powered.

The addition of longer cooldowns on Rogue abilities is likely an attempt to bring Rogues back on par with other classes. There seems to be quite a few posts from disbelieving Rogue players that want their old abilities back. I reckon, for those players, it might be a case of 'you dont know how good you have it until its gone'.

To put it into perspective, Elemental Shaman, prior to patch 5**** had 1 single dps cooldown, with a base cooldown of 3 minutes, reducable by an RNG mechanic and at the cost of up to 3 talent points.

Rogues are still very strong. You just need to develop new strategies.
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90 Human Paladin
10930
To put it into perspective, Elemental Shaman, prior to patch 5**** had 1 single dps cooldown, with a base cooldown of 3 minutes, reducable by an RNG mechanic and at the cost of up to 3 talent points.


The cooldown reduction of Elemental Mastery wasn't RNG. It was reduced every time you casted Lightning Bolt.
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85 Night Elf Priest
11330
Logging into my hunter today and realizing they all have Readiness when rogues have to optionally pick Preparation made me realize they may have nerfed the class too hard. I admit a lot of was just, but they went way too far to make other players happy I think. The class will still be okay for the most part, but it's gonna be like warriors in Cata okay which basically means you better be fairly skilled to overcome the nerftrain.
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85 Draenei Shaman
5405
Ya I have to agree that long CD's are not fun :C

Did you know locks can dispel blinds now with their imps
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