Topic
A legitimate concern for Feral PVP.
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No idea. I haven't actually really paid attention to my AP in a long time. Also, lower than ____ (fill in the blank)? Apparently they just nerfed Rake and boosted Shred, Ravage, and Mangle, so it wouldn't surprise me if we're back to crit/haste, at least for PvP. But I'm just guessing. I'm too lazy to actually do math. |
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omg!!....we had a good team and i ended up #2 player overall!! damn i should've got a screenshot!
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Edited by Crexa on 9/11/12 6:59 PM (PDT)
After reading everyone's responses, I see that they have really good points. The way im seeing it, is that we played a certain way that allowed us to stay in the game. But have been changed to now have to rely more on teammates and escape more.
Adapting may not be so bad once we become good at it. But one thing that still bothers me, druids were designed with the intention of shifting to accommodate for the situation. Our cat hits hard, fair enough. But our bear does nothing. As before I said that it would be ok to leave the cat as it is, as long as we are able to improve bear survive with a reduced dps output so that we are not invincible + unkillable. I know Baezle didnt like that. But as a bear, if we can shift our jobs from DPS (cat) to bear (Survive + support+Debuff - DPS) playing a feral would be alot more fun and alot more purposeful when playing with people. The idea of being awesome at running away is like Aquaman. He is great at calling for help. |
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agreed
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Edited by Baezle on 9/11/12 8:16 PM (PDT)
The problem with that is that it screws PvE, especially with the current system where they can't fine tune as much for hybrid specs. Our survivability is no long passive, and we aren't a 1 man army anymore. Just have to get used it. As much as I liked the idea of shifting, with the way Blizzard has it implemented, it's just too awkward for PvP. Since they seem unable or unwilling to put forms on their own gcd. That extra 1.5s - 3s to do anything not part of the primary form is killer. |
Damn, as usual awesomely good feedback. Really gets me thinking. But now I want to speak to you specifically. Wouldnt you like it we played like that? I mean Blizzard can do almost anything they want. They can think of how to make anything work. I know you accepted what is. And thats probably how I need to think. But as for you, isnt what we asking for something youd like? Wouldnt you want all the awesome things we are mentioning minus anything that would truly make us OP. Reason I ask is, well the conversations are generally complains or acceptance. But no one (generally not literally) is really just in awe of the changes. I mean I know locks are doing backflips. And I think it would be fair for everyone, and every class to at least look forward to each spec. That isnt too much to ask. I hoping this forum would at the least be a start so alot of us can stop trying to adapt, and blizz can start trying to let us really play like the class was designed. |
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Edited by Baezle on 9/11/12 9:45 PM (PDT)
By this statement alone, I'm going to guess you haven't played Warcraft all that long. Blizzard will make minor tweaks, but they will not make any major thematic changes based on player feedback. Once they've decided on a vision for a class (their words), that's the way it is for an xpac. I !@#$%ed about the loss of hybridity before it happened, and despite me defending feral's state right now, I'm not entirely happy about some of our weaknesses. That said, a huge part of the reason I liked feral PvP was because of the mobility and how incredibly hard we are to lock down and control. We lost that in Cata and it was really frustrating. We've got it back in spades now and I really like it. You have to remember too that Blizzard isn't likely to spend too much time tweaking 85 PvP since it's essentially low-level now. It's a meme at the moment, but they really do focus their efforts for 90. It's not to say they won't screw the class over, because they've done it to others (*cough* resto *cough*), but making a lot of noise about it now isn't going to do any good at all. They're not even going to consider changes until 90 hits with the last tier of talents and see how things shape up. |
I'm pretty sure that just about all base stats changed (for the lower) with 5.0.4 in preparation for MOP stats / gear. Also, if you're running BGs in the gear from your armory, it's no wonder you're getting easily blown up. 0 resil, and 359 PVE gear... |
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Edited by Grizzles on 9/11/12 10:29 PM (PDT)
i was in my pve gear when i posted lol...fixed!
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Edited by Taswind on 9/11/12 10:44 PM (PDT)
Lol - makes more sense. Though you'll want to replace that weapon ASAP. If you don't have the season honor gained (not sure you can gain it, or if they removed the restriction) for the Cata version of the staff / polearm (they're equal), then try for Kirils or the staff off Yorsaj - even on normal. You'll feel like you're putting out a LOT less damage with a 378 weapon, because you are. Even though we're not swinging the staff around in our teeth, bleeds / special attacks (IE: Shred) / auto-attacks all scale with weapon dmg. (And Agi, but even that is secondary to weap dmg.)
Also, you're probably facing others that are in full Cata gear, whereas you're in mostly Ruthless. This will still make you quite a bit smushier until you've caught up. This is kinda the down-side of gearing up so late in the season. |
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Edited by Cariedweiser on 9/11/12 10:41 PM (PDT)
ty for the ego boost i keep getting told i don't need anymore of those but i disagree |
Actually been playing since beta. I have actually seen alot of things that the community cried out about get improved. Ret Pally changes back in BC, res pvp gear came from the cry of vanilla, when epic raiders were dominating, seen the (failed) implementation of world pvp sithilus and plague lands, to replace the awesomely epic times at Terran mill, Seen the shaman WF nerf from the outcry in pvp in vanilla, and so on. So I have seen alot of changes all based on outcries. Although I have also seen a ton go ignored. I tend to find that when you get a forum post that might make sense, and it isnt just QQ but actual suggestive feedback, on a few occasions they try see if it works. I also know that GhostCrawler (not sure if he is still lead class designer) said that he does read the forums to get an idea of how things are going. Not to discredit what you said. Just my observations. |
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Edited by Crexa on 9/12/12 12:05 AM (PDT)
Found this little ditty on MMO Champion. An interview with various wow devs. Here is one about the topic we are talking about.
Q : What is your current opinion on the overall state of Mists PVP? Is it where you want it to be with regards to player survivability, healing, damage, and CC? A: At 85 the numbers are kind of wild... healers heal for a ton as a percentage of a health bar and non-healers die too quickly. At 90, health pools increase more than damage does (by roughly a 3:2 ratio, although your mileage may vary), so it should be noticeably better. |
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Edited by Grizzles on 9/12/12 5:56 AM (PDT)
Also, you're probably facing others that are in full Cata gear, whereas you're in mostly Ruthless. This will still make you quite a bit smushier until you've caught up. This is kinda the down-side of gearing up so late in the season This i am trying to remedy! I work in a mine in northern Yukon and pull 3 weeks in 2 weeks out shifts...and ya...is a hard grind to get all the gear but workin on it lol!! I would like to thank you fellow druids for the helpful advice and good attitudes shown on the forums!!! not 1 druid said l2p lol...that's what makes this class rock that much more! |
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Minor mechanic shifts maybe, or number tweaks. At least within an xpac. However, they've flat out said that they don't generally change the overall style of a class or how it's designed to work. Considering that most of the changes for ferals in Mists was to remove how well we could bear and cat at the same time, I highly doubt they're going to make any changes now that move us back towards that style. It really wouldn't make a lot of sense after going to the effort to give us 4 talent trees. |
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But as a bear, if we can shift our jobs from DPS (cat) to bear (Survive + support+Debuff - DPS) playing a feral would be alot more fun and alot more purposeful when playing with people. they deliberately moved away from the dps/tank hybrid that feral used to be, hence the gaurdian tree. of course most old ferals are going to miss it, but i dont see them reverting anything at this point. |
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No I totally understand that they separated the trees like that. But what everyone isnt seeing is that that guardian tree to my understanding is specifically for PVE and has little to no PVP purpose. Of course that can be said for the PROT trees for War/Pal.
Although we obviously see that they changed the trees, dont forget that each spec no matter the specialty still allows access to ....cat and a bear. This means that yes you can specialize, but you still have access to the other forms. So while it might be obvious that they separated them, think about why they allowed the inclusion of the other forms. Well obviously we would be furious if they took them away. But you can tell me they gave the forms to us to be worthless? Well.....strike that, apparently they did. We arent asking for the best of the guardian spec which is generally for PVE, we are asking for it to be of some use in PVP. An obviously easy adjustment considering pve damage and pvp damage has already been specified in the games mechanics. So making these adjustments, making these changes will not harm PVE play. But as I posed earlier, they know about the heals, survivability and cc and believe most of it will be fixed at 90. And if its not, they obviously will make some kind adjustment. So assuming they wont make any changes isnt true. At 90, we will see what happends. |
No I totally understand that they separated the trees like that. But what everyone isnt seeing is that that guardian tree to my understanding is specifically for PVE and has little to no PVP purpose. Of course that can be said for the PROT trees for War/Pal. Flag carrier...? |
