Warlocks are demon hunters?

73 Undead Warlock
6790
I've heard some people claim that with some of the changes to warlocks, it's being hinted that they might have the potential at least of being demon hunters. I really don't know much about the lore behind them, so I have no idea if this is true. Wouldn't a warlock be an oxymoron to demon hunters though? One is commited to controling demons while the other is commited to destroying them? Unless maybe I just have the wrong idea about demon hunters. What is a demon hunter exactly and could a warlock be one lore wise?
Reply Quote
Demon Hunters are an oxymoron themselves. They fight warlocks and demons by using the same magics and powers, and even partially transforming into demons.

A lot of the talk comes from the Warlock's new glyph, the Glyph of Demon Hunting, which grants a partial demonic form, a melee-ranged spell, and a lot of defensive bonuses.
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Warrior
7515
If you think metamorphosis makes demon hunters a demon hunter, I guess.

To me, demon hunters are in essence a whirling dervish. Melee, based on the classic archtype of the Wood Elf wardancers from Warhammer, or the dwarven Slayers of Warhammer.

They are meant to be lithe, relying on massive deadly blades over armor, with nearly a deathwish. Suicidal in their abandoment for personal safety, willing to fight fire with fire using the powers of fel and chaos.

In essence, a fleet footed melee fighter, something like Vega from Streetfighter 2, not a mage who uses demonic magic.

Nothing about Warlocks satisfies a single part of the reason I was attracted to demon hunters in WC3. If this is what Blizzard is expecting, then create a faction of Highborn night elf magi who use warlock magic and let us have Night Elf warlocks.

The new shadow abilities of Rogues and Illidan's combat style in the Well of Eternity heroic make rogues seem a lot more like demon hunters.

To me, metamorphosis was always incidental to demon hunters and nothing about it had anything to do with what made me like demon hunters. Metamorphosis is just something Illidan did, or advanced demon hunters who were losing their souls in the end of their life span to the demonic essence they fused themselves with.

I think demonology warlocks are just warlocks who discovered some of the ways Illidan used fel magic, they have nothing to do with demon hunters.
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Warrior
7515
09/11/2012 08:22 AMPosted by Légîon
I've heard some people claim that with some of the changes to warlocks, it's being hinted that they might have the potential at least of being demon hunters. I really don't know much about the lore behind them, so I have no idea if this is true. Wouldn't a warlock be an oxymoron to demon hunters though? One is commited to controling demons while the other is commited to destroying them? Unless maybe I just have the wrong idea about demon hunters. What is a demon hunter exactly and could a warlock be one lore wise?


And technically no, many warlocks use fel magic to fight demons and ultimately owe their allegiance to the alliance.

Just like demon hunters, who "fight fire with fire".

Some warlocks would get along with demon hunters, some would not.

In the new society in the lore today, warlocks are tolerated, so demon hunters would be tolerated in public as well.
Reply Quote
94 Human Paladin
12900
I wrote this up a while ago, led to a WoW Insider article:

Upon reflecting on Cataclysm, I realized there was quite the future foundation laying for Demon Hunters.

1. Achievement for finding Demon Hunter in Darkshore "Ghosts in the Dark"
2. Long quest chain with Blood Mage which has you bring a Demon Hunter back from the dead, which nobly makes a big sacrifice right afterwards.
3. Felwood, Demon Hunter named Feronas Sindweller is a kill target for a quest, only to find that he has been killing demons, rather than druids. He then proceeds to show you what most NPCs and all of BC seem to ignore, Illidan sought power, but not to conquer or lord over others, but rather to help his people and prove himself to Night Elves, in particular Tyrande. He did these things, however, with a reckless attitude (poor Lord Blackforest).

So all of these were added in Cataclysm, which makes me wonder about the possibility of a Demon Hunter class in the next expansion. HOWEVER, I find that there are a couple of things in the way of that.

1. Demo Warlocks are becoming more and more like WC3 Metamorphosis Demon Hunters (Book in Stormwind explains a warlock learned the secrets to Illidan's transformation)
2. The Warlock challenge set in Mists of Pandaria is extremely Illidan themed, which going along with the Demo Warlock changes, makes me wonder if the lore is trying to peg Illidan and Demon Hunters into the Warlock class. This would be an alternative to having Demon Hunters having their own theme and class(with the obvious exception of not using warglaives).

So what does this evidence point to? Illidan is likely coming back, but will Demon Hunters be a new class? Or will their theme be absorbed into Demo Warlocks? What was the purpose of laying all this foundation in Cataclysm?

http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/06/13/what-classes-should-wow-have-been-designed-with/
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Death Knight
11910
09/11/2012 09:30 AMPosted by Elrith
ultimately owe their allegiance to the alliance.


You realise that most demon hunters dont affeliate with any political group yes?

09/11/2012 09:30 AMPosted by Elrith
In the new society in the lore today, warlocks are tolerated, so demon hunters would be tolerated in public as well.


We have seen them tolerated in war zones in the army, nothing about them being tolerated by the populace.
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Mage
4640
09/11/2012 09:30 AMPosted by Elrith
In the new society in the lore today, warlocks are tolerated, so demon hunters would be tolerated in public as well.


According to Metzen in a Lore Q&A, if a Warlock is seen casting Warlocky things in Stormwind, the Town Bell would sing as though its the Legion invading. Unfortunately (according to me), they can't make that the case in-game (according to Metzen).

That's why every single Warlock trainer outside Silvermoon and Undercity is hiding.
09/11/2012 10:03 AMPosted by Athanasius
Illidan is likely coming back


I'm all for making the concept of classes more dynamic and real, but I hope so much that Illidan isn't resurrected... again...
Edited by Eldrethir on 9/11/2012 10:12 AM PDT
Reply Quote
94 Human Paladin
12900
09/11/2012 10:10 AMPosted by Eldrethir
In the new society in the lore today, warlocks are tolerated, so demon hunters would be tolerated in public as well.


According to Metzen in a Lore Q&A, if a Warlock is seen casting Warlocky things in Stormwind, the Town Bell would sing as though its the Legion invading. Unfortunately (according to me), they can't make that the case in-game (according to Metzen).

That's why every single Warlock trainer outside Silvermoon and Undercity is hiding.
Illidan is likely coming back


I'm all for making the concept of classes more dynamic and real, but I hope so much that Illidan isn't resurrected... again...


Again? When was he resurrected the first time? Also, Metzen already said that Illidan is likely coming back at the last Blizzcon
Edited by Athanasius on 9/11/2012 10:15 AM PDT
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Mage
4640
Again? When was he resurrected the first time? Also, Metzen already said that Illidan is likely coming back at the last Blizzcon


I know Illidan is bound to be back. But as everyone has their pet peeves, I can hope. As I hope that Med'an is retconned out of existance.

Blizzard, I think Metzen, once said that Illidan was supposed to be dead after Frozen Throne. But he was brought back because, you guessed it: he was a popular character.
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Warrior
7515
09/11/2012 10:05 AMPosted by Shaithiss
ultimately owe their allegiance to the alliance.


You realise that most demon hunters dont affeliate with any political group yes?

In the new society in the lore today, warlocks are tolerated, so demon hunters would be tolerated in public as well.


We have seen them tolerated in war zones in the army, nothing about them being tolerated by the populace.
I said warlocks, not demon hunters.

And I consider Stormwind and Ironforge "public". If you want to split hairs over who the populace is, be my guest. I'm sure farmers and fisherman would not trust demon hunters any more than they would trust warlocks, but I'm not talking about inviting someone to dinner or having them marry your daughter. I am talking about letting them walk down the street without attacking them as a mob with torches and pitchforks, got it?
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Death Knight
11910
Illidan is likely coming back


I'm all for making the concept of classes more dynamic and real, but I hope so much that Illidan isn't resurrected... again...


Again? When was he resurrected the first time? Also, Metzen already said that Illidan is likely coming back at the last Blizzcon[/quote]

People generaly call him returning in BC a ressurection because all we see at the end of WC3 is an apparent death scene.
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Warrior
7515
In the new society in the lore today, warlocks are tolerated, so demon hunters would be tolerated in public as well.


According to Metzen in a Lore Q&A, if a Warlock is seen casting Warlocky things in Stormwind, the Town Bell would sing as though its the Legion invading. Unfortunately (according to me), they can't make that the case in-game (according to Metzen).

That's why every single Warlock trainer outside Silvermoon and Undercity is hiding.
Illidan is likely coming back


I'm all for making the concept of classes more dynamic and real, but I hope so much that Illidan isn't resurrected... again...
I am not talking about casting warlocky things in public. If a death knight or warlock can walk into the auction house in Stormwind, so could a demon hunter. That is all I am saying.
Edited by Elrith on 9/11/2012 10:17 AM PDT
Reply Quote
94 Human Paladin
12900
It is stated that he was wounded and Arthas told him to leave. The cinematic was rushed and poorly communicated that.
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Mage
4640
09/11/2012 10:15 AMPosted by Elrith
I am talking about letting them walk down the street without attacking them as a mob with torches and pitchforks, got it?


As players are immune to the Lore, please point me one Warlock NPC that is allowed to walk down the street of Stormwind with his demon.

But as you'll find out, they are all in the cellars. Best example you'll find is the Warlock trainer of Theramore, who pretends not to be one.

According to Metzen in a Lore Q&A, if a Warlock is seen casting Warlocky things in Stormwind, the Town Bell would sing as though its the Legion invading. Unfortunately (according to me), they can't make that the case in-game (according to Metzen).
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Death Knight
11910
09/11/2012 10:15 AMPosted by Elrith
And I consider Stormwind and Ironforge "public". If you want to split hairs over who the populace is, be my guest. I'm sure farmers and fisherman would not trust demon hunters any more than they would trust warlocks, but I'm not talking about inviting someone to dinner or having them marry your daughter. I am talking about letting them walk down the street without attacking them as a mob with torches and pitchforks, got it?


So was I. Warlocks have only been shown to be tolerated in military settings or by the military the average citizen on Stormwind is not likly to take kindly to a warlock, unless you can source where this has happened already, I would be very interested to see it.

As for the first part, apologies that was a misread on my part.
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Death Knight
11910
09/11/2012 10:18 AMPosted by Athanasius
It is stated that he was wounded and Arthas told him to leave. The cinematic was rushed and poorly communicated that.


Not everyone saw that statement since it wasn't exactly stated within the game so it can be understandable for people to assume ressurection.
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Warrior
7515


I'm all for making the concept of classes more dynamic and real, but I hope so much that Illidan isn't resurrected... again...


Again? When was he resurrected the first time? Also, Metzen already said that Illidan is likely coming back at the last Blizzcon


People generaly call him returning in BC a ressurection because all we see at the end of WC3 is an apparent death scene.


Before TBC came out, before WOW came out, Blizzard already had made it known that Illidan was not intended to be dead.

And thinking Illidan getting killed by Maive is his end seems naive to me. I know you all love this rule about good quality literature, it isn't supposed to use plot devices, but this isn't Russian literature. This is Warcraft, it's supposed to be a serial opera on the level of Marvel's comic book mythology. We are supposed to have messiahs with near infinite power, we are supposed to have villains returning from the dead.

Illidan had demonic magic fused to his soul, Illidan had the Burning Legion chasing him across worlds and dimensions. If you think Illidan should just disappear forever from the story line because he was physically killed, you're ignoring all the precedents we know of in this lore and in this story. But congratulations on having something new to criticize Blizzard about.
Edited by Elrith on 9/11/2012 10:21 AM PDT
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Warrior
7515
I am talking about letting them walk down the street without attacking them as a mob with torches and pitchforks, got it?


As players are immune to the Lore, please point me one Warlock NPC that is allowed to walk down the street of Stormwind with his demon.

But as you'll find out, they are all in the cellars. Best example you'll find is the Warlock trainer of Theramore, who pretends not to be one.

According to Metzen in a Lore Q&A, if a Warlock is seen casting Warlocky things in Stormwind, the Town Bell would sing as though its the Legion invading. Unfortunately (according to me), they can't make that the case in-game (according to Metzen).
Demon hunters don't have demons as pets. My only point is that if a DK can walk into the auction house, so could a demon hunter. That's all.

*edit* Sorry for the "freaking", not intending to argue or be hostile. *
Edited by Elrith on 9/11/2012 10:33 AM PDT
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Warrior
7515
I wrote this up a while ago, led to a WoW Insider article:

Upon reflecting on Cataclysm, I realized there was quite the future foundation laying for Demon Hunters.

1. Achievement for finding Demon Hunter in Darkshore "Ghosts in the Dark"
2. Long quest chain with Blood Mage which has you bring a Demon Hunter back from the dead, which nobly makes a big sacrifice right afterwards.
3. Felwood, Demon Hunter named Feronas Sindweller is a kill target for a quest, only to find that he has been killing demons, rather than druids. He then proceeds to show you what most NPCs and all of BC seem to ignore, Illidan sought power, but not to conquer or lord over others, but rather to help his people and prove himself to Night Elves, in particular Tyrande. He did these things, however, with a reckless attitude (poor Lord Blackforest).

So all of these were added in Cataclysm, which makes me wonder about the possibility of a Demon Hunter class in the next expansion. HOWEVER, I find that there are a couple of things in the way of that.

1. Demo Warlocks are becoming more and more like WC3 Metamorphosis Demon Hunters (Book in Stormwind explains a warlock learned the secrets to Illidan's transformation)
2. The Warlock challenge set in Mists of Pandaria is extremely Illidan themed, which going along with the Demo Warlock changes, makes me wonder if the lore is trying to peg Illidan and Demon Hunters into the Warlock class. This would be an alternative to having Demon Hunters having their own theme and class(with the obvious exception of not using warglaives).

So what does this evidence point to? Illidan is likely coming back, but will Demon Hunters be a new class? Or will their theme be absorbed into Demo Warlocks? What was the purpose of laying all this foundation in Cataclysm?

http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/06/13/what-classes-should-wow-have-been-designed-with/


I don't think demonology warlocks have barely anything to do with demon hunters. I covered this in my first post in this thread. The essence of the demon hunter class, as in what makes a demon hunter a demon hunter, is that of a melee fighter in little to no armor.

Just as Deathknights had most of their abilities already present in WOW before WOTLK, I don't think that has any bearing at all on demon hunters being added. Above all, they are melee dps.

The trick is to give them a new mechanic for meleeing. They would need named strikes, and a talent tree.

If anything, I would say rogues are more like demon hunters. Illidan's role in the Well of Eternity heroic is the closest thing you'll see to demon hunters in WOW. And as of the patch, they even gave rogues the mass group shadowmeld ability Illidan used there. They are making rogues more like demon hunters now as well as Warlocks, with shadow dance and cloak of shadows making you a dark figure with burning shadow flames all around you.

But I don't think any of this precludes demon hunters from being a new class in the game at all. New melee systems can always be invented. In the end, WOW is very limited, you can either be melee or ranged. The trick is making how you melee or ranged into something new and fun.

I think Cataclysm was totally hinting or playing with the idea of demon hunters, we now have a name for their secret warrior society, namely the Dark Embrace.

If Rogues or Warlocks start having quests or lore that mentions the Dark Embrace, I will consider that a point against Demon Hunters as their own class, but I don't think Warlocks unlocking the secrets to Metamorphosis effects their candidacy as a new class at all personally.
Edited by Elrith on 9/11/2012 10:32 AM PDT
Reply Quote
94 Human Paladin
12900
I hope you are right, and that someday in the future we get Demon Hunters. My point about Warlocks was their Metamorphosis form. It has pretty much everything WC3 Demon Hunters had when they were in that form: immolation aura, shooting green fel fire at the enemy. What do you make of the fact that the warlock Challenge set is an Illidan set?
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]