Ji Firepaw: Does he even have a clue...

90 Draenei Paladin
14220
...what he got into?

I honestly can't understand why he would pledge himself to the Horde unless he literally had no clue what they were about and was relatively unexposed to it's wider workings and operations. They share a passion for the martial aspect like the Horde sure, but defense of home? Has this guy even met Hellscream or have any idea what he's been having the Horde do so far?

Ji just seems remarkably naive to want anything to do with the Horde, particularly after what they did to Theramore. That's the kind of people he wants to ally with? An organization largely bent on the utter conquest of the world who won't bat an eye at slaughtering innocents or using the most detestable and indiscriminate methods to win? I don't care if Vol'jin or Baine represent the loyal resistence so-to-speak, the fact remains that the Horde is mostly centered around factions who simply don't care who they kill, how many, or how as long as they win.

Secondly, the Rexxar example happened in another time under a completely different Horde, one that was actually concerned with building a homeland and defending themselves from blatant aggressors like Daelin Proudmoore. If they joined with Thrall's Horde, that would sound legitimate as they embraced many of the aspects the Firepaw faction holds dear, but now? That Horde no longer exists, it has been almost entirely subverted to bloodlust, treachery, and an unquenching desire to conquer which is almost completely inimical to what Firepaw and his faction is supposed to represent.

Is Firepaw in fact a visionary who seeks to mend that which is broken from within, or is he a naive fool who had absolutely no idea what he was really pledging himself to?
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90 Troll Hunter
12970
The Pandaren haven't seen the atrocities that Hellscream has commited.

And, personally, I'd like for Ji to become a more iconic Horde character, particularly in the resistance. He and Aysa could have a... 'reunion' during the siege.
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90 Undead Death Knight
7950
Blizzard has said Ji will pay dearly for his knee-jerk decision to pledge himself and the Huojin to the Horde, or something along those lines.
Edited by Frosthawk on 9/8/2012 1:19 PM PDT
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90 Worgen Death Knight
14505
My guess is that there won't be any healing of any sort untill after Garrosh is dealt with.

It just sucks that the longer this goes on the more it looks like we're just gonna axe him. All that effort trying to make him a likeable character, wasted.

My wild fantasy of seeing some good come out of it is getting wilder with every reveal.
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90 Human Mage
13175
Eh, I'm holding out for him. I never particularly liked him, but that doesn't make him a bad character
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90 Worgen Hunter
0
The Pandaren haven't seen the atrocities that Hellscream has commited.

And, personally, I'd like for Ji to become a more iconic Horde character, particularly in the resistance. He and Aysa could have a... 'reunion' during the siege.


You mean her telling him that she was right and he was wrong?
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90 Undead Death Knight
Req
14345
I looked up Ji Firepaw and I found this questline on wowpedia. I hope this clears up any misconceptions about him and Garrosh. I'll link the three quests in order.

http://www.wowpedia.org/Quest:Joining_the_Horde

http://www.wowpedia.org/Quest:The_Horde_Way

http://www.wowpedia.org/Quest:Hellscream%27s_Gift
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90 Troll Hunter
12970
09/08/2012 03:45 PMPosted by Sardorim
You mean her telling him that she was right and he was wrong?

I was thinking them having to trade blows.

Besides, the Pandaren saw so little of both the Horde and Alliance before picking sides, all they knew was they were at war. They didn't know what has been done between the two.
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79 Blood Elf Hunter
4155
An organization largely bent on the utter conquest of the world who won't bat an eye at slaughtering innocents or using the most detestable and indiscriminate methods to win? I don't care if Vol'jin or Baine represent the loyal resistence so-to-speak, the fact remains that the Horde is mostly centered around factions who simply don't care who they kill, how many, or how as long as they win.

That's how you win wars. Honor and morality are for soft-hearted carebears.
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90 Undead Death Knight
Req
14345
Yeah pretty much both of them heard about the two sides and Ji Firepaw agreed on the concepts that the Horde was founded upon and what they're supposed to represent, but they in no way met Garrosh or learned about him until these quests took place. Garrosh is a radical for these ideas, taking the concepts to a level beyond what Firepaw originally thought they would be. But as such I believe that Garrosh is fit to be leader, because he has ascended to this level of the Horde's ideals. The Huojin just need to toughen up and learn that they will become warriors of the Horde and live in a warrior society.
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90 Dwarf Warrior
5620
An organization largely bent on the utter conquest of the world who won't bat an eye at slaughtering innocents or using the most detestable and indiscriminate methods to win? I don't care if Vol'jin or Baine represent the loyal resistence so-to-speak, the fact remains that the Horde is mostly centered around factions who simply don't care who they kill, how many, or how as long as they win.

That's how you win wars. Honor and morality are for soft-hearted carebears.


"Honor and Morality" Is how you win wars. An enemy is MUCH more likely to surrender if they know you will treat them justly as POWs, "Brutality and Cruelty" is what makes your enemy fight to the last man, killing MANY more of your troops that would have otherwise lived if the enemy believed it would not suffer a fate worse than death.
Edited by Malodin on 9/8/2012 5:54 PM PDT
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90 Human Mage
13175

That's how you win wars. Honor and morality are for soft-hearted carebears.


"Honor and Morality" Is how you win wars. An enemy is MUCH more likely to surrender if they know you will treat them justly as POWs, "Brutality and Cruelty" is what makes your enemy fight to the last man, killing MANY more of your troops otherwise.


Case in point, the Japanese. They were convinced Americans were barbarians and were cruel for cutting of oil exports. From a cultural stand point, we were savages to them. That's why we had such issues with them on the islands

No offense to any Japanese reading this, of course, but that's the rough outlook. Or so I've researched
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90 Troll Hunter
12970
Honestly, if you look at the Huojin philosophy, Ji might actually be more likely to be a Garrosh loyalist.

The Huojin believe it is honorable to defend home and family, no matter the cost.

Even if it means plaguing a potential port near your homeland, raising more troops from the dead, enslaving any number of elementals or animals to your will, you will do anything for the sake of your people.
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
10325
09/08/2012 05:52 PMPosted by Malodin
"Honor and Morality" Is how you win wars. An enemy is MUCH more likely to surrender if they know you will treat them justly as POWs, "Brutality and Cruelty" is what makes your enemy fight to the last man, killing MANY more of your troops that would have otherwise lived if the enemy believed it would not suffer a fate worse than death.


I think it's a mix of both. From what I've heard of Genghis Khan, his was a two-pronged policy.

- You're given the chance to surrender, and if you do, he builds up your area and actually treats your region much better than most overlords at the time. ( And at his era, most towns were ruled by larger empirical overlords)

- You refuse, and he brutally and efficiently destroys every last one of your people.

Which makes it a very effective carrot and stick methodology.

Honestly, if you look at the Huojin philosophy, Ji might actually be more likely to be a Garrosh loyalist.

The Huojin believe it is honorable to defend home and family, no matter the cost.

Even if it means plaguing a potential port near your homeland, raising more troops from the dead, enslaving any number of elementals or animals to your will, you will do anything for the sake of your people.


" Its adherents believe in immediate action without hesitation. " - taken from WoWWiki. This certainly meshes in with Garrosh's ideals. The Huojin believe inaction is cowardice, which pits them against the idea of peaceful balance by the Tushui. Basically a strong believer of the Huojin's ideals would tend to be less tactical than even Garrosh ( if, from what I hear, he actually formed a clever strategy in the decimation of Theramore) and rush forward to any situation with an immediate plan of action.
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10 Night Elf Hunter
60
An organization largely bent on the utter conquest of the world who won't bat an eye at slaughtering innocents or using the most detestable and indiscriminate methods to win? I don't care if Vol'jin or Baine represent the loyal resistence so-to-speak, the fact remains that the Horde is mostly centered around factions who simply don't care who they kill, how many, or how as long as they win.

That's how you win wars. Honor and morality are for soft-hearted carebears.
must be nice cdev loves the horde and provides them plot armour to prevent them from from being wiped off the face of Azeroth as they deserve. You see Horde fans get upset and quit paying their subs, Alliance fans get upset and re-roll Horde.
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85 Human Death Knight
6030
09/08/2012 06:23 PMPosted by Voragos
" Its adherents believe in immediate action without hesitation. " - taken from WoWWiki. This certainly meshes in with Garrosh's ideals. The Huojin believe inaction is cowardice, which pits them against the idea of peaceful balance by the Tushui. Basically a strong believer of the Huojin's ideals would tend to be less tactical than even Garrosh ( if, from what I hear, he actually formed a clever strategy in the decimation of Theramore) and rush forward to any situation with an immediate plan of action.


Which could also be used if say when Garrosh and co DO commit these massive crimes that would offend even the Huojin as they are still Pandaren. Could definetly see them rebelling within the city, and many being killed or captured, and possibly setting off the larger Horde rebellion.

All tinfoil hat theory, though I see it has some possibility
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
10325
09/08/2012 07:16 PMPosted by Barodne
" Its adherents believe in immediate action without hesitation. " - taken from WoWWiki. This certainly meshes in with Garrosh's ideals. The Huojin believe inaction is cowardice, which pits them against the idea of peaceful balance by the Tushui. Basically a strong believer of the Huojin's ideals would tend to be less tactical than even Garrosh ( if, from what I hear, he actually formed a clever strategy in the decimation of Theramore) and rush forward to any situation with an immediate plan of action.


Which could also be used if say when Garrosh and co DO commit these massive crimes that would offend even the Huojin as they are still Pandaren. Could definetly see them rebelling within the city, and many being killed or captured, and possibly setting off the larger Horde rebellion.

All tinfoil hat theory, though I see it has some possibility


It depends on what would offend them as Pandaren. From their base philosophy it seems the Huojin are actually very brash and quick to act. Short of an assault on Pandaria itself or its cultures I'm not sure what Garrosh would do that would offend them.
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85 Human Death Knight
6030
Well considering both sides will be landing full scale on Pandaria with 5.1 (as evidenced and stated) and with Garrosh obviously willing to do just about anything to destroy as many Alliance as he can, It isn't entirely out of the realm of possibility that he could try to indoctrinate more of the Pandaria natives to use as cannon fodder.

Despite being brash and quick to action they ARE still good at heart and since Garrosh's actions certainly won't be for defending "home and family" but by mists point, pure conquest, It could be estimated that they try to rebel first (again being quick to action it'd make sense) then again could be a fracture in the Huojin for those that embrace the new ways of Garrosh they've come across and the more traditional Huojin way.

Could help give Garrosh a reasonable amount of soldiers in the final raid (obviously not all but a portion)

But guess we'll see.

As for the original Topic, No I don't think Ji understands what he's gotten himself into, very heavily hinted at by his hesitation in saying he understands what Garrosh says about "friends family and loved ones being dead" the moment they put on that Alliance tabard
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1 Human Rogue
0
09/08/2012 01:18 PMPosted by Pyronaptor
The Pandaren haven't seen the atrocities that Hellscream has commited.


No offense, but this raises another question. Primarily thus: Just how much of Ji's brain is left after he's apparently been chewing paint chips and huffing glue every single day for years.

No, seriously. The guy must not have much grey matter left if he's willing to pledge himself and his people to a gigantic military organization which he knows nothing about and has barely dealt with.

If Garrosh himself had a few brain cells to spare this might be something you could over-look via saying that he's appointed extremely skillful and convincing emissaries and diplomats, but Garrosh thinks that diplomacy measures are akin to supply-lines; something that the Horde doesn't need or care for. He might, at absolute best, get someone who's either extremely coarse and rough around the edges; the sort of guy you wouldn't trust as far as you could throw him, but that wouldn't actively -drive- you away.

Alternatively he could get someone like Vol'jin. An honorable, wise, and intelligent individual who would wait until he got a free moment, and then plead with Ji to take his people and run as far away as he possibly could from the Horde and never join them, perhaps even join the Alliance.
Edited by Hallinton on 9/8/2012 9:13 PM PDT
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85 Goblin Rogue
8070
I think it's a bit odd to see people disliking Ji as the poorly developed character.

In the meanwhile while Ji tried to find a way to save a dying Turtle, Ayssa wanted to sit there and have the turtle hopefully live by the Alliance priests. Yes, that totally sounds like a great idea. Let's just hope instead of trying to do something to fix it.

The pure fact of the matter is while Ji made a horrible decision, it's not as if the Huojin and the Horde don't share similar beliefs, and that's in all reality what he chose. Not Garrosh, not Baine, not Vol'jin, not Sylvanas. He chose what the Horde was supposed to believe in as a whole.

Also on a side note, Garrosh and Varian mostly say the same things to Ji/Ayssa through NPC dialogue, the only difference is Varian says it in a more reasonable way instead of "What I say goes".
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