Premades ruining call-to-arms

90 Orc Warrior
9415
Greetings Kild, meet Paranova

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6522902573

This person would swear up and down that what you said could not possibly be true because she lost 10 Gilneas BG's in a row. Perhaps you 2 could have a nice long chat about who is really losing more often.


It's possible that Blizzard is pitting premades up against pugs, regardless of faction you are. It's consistent with my experiences playing my Alliance and Horde toons.
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85 Night Elf Priest
5010
09/10/2012 09:29 PMPosted by Paranova
Mad? I'm so frustrated I want to kill somebody. So what do you suggest I do after yelling at people to stay grouped and not split up our forces, and to not fight in the mid of the road, especially if we are losing, and once you take a node some have to stay and D it. And they do the exact opposite.
You have two choices: AFK out or stay in the match & lose. After that organize a premade of 4 other geared/competent players to make sure there are less idiots in the next BG. That is all you can do.
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88 Human Priest
2300
I'ts all luck. I've had days where I lost every BG, and i wanted to tie myself a rope to hang myself with. But. I've also had days where I win almost all of them spare a few. It can sometimes be a trend, but in the end, it's all random. The arguement stays the same. Alliance feels BGs are scaled toward horde wins. And Horde feels the same about Alliance. It's the sad truth, if you can't take it. I hear PvE is quite easy.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
17145
09/10/2012 01:24 PMPosted by Kildarre
I haven't won a single call-to-arms BG since the patch. Every single game we're so hopelessly outplayed there's no point rezzing after the first couple deaths (I'm talking 3 capped and being farmed). This is happening because every horde group we're playing against is running at least one 4-5 man premade. This same scenario seems to play out in most regular BG's to some degree. I think it's time to consider not allowing people to queue up for regular BG's with more than one other person. Leave the large group queueing for rateds only.
There's a reason why an add-on known as Preform AV Enabler was created.
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85 Night Elf Priest
5010
09/11/2012 09:00 AMPosted by Alluris
I'ts all luck
No it isn't... if you think that individual players have nothing to do with winning/losing BGs then you are completely delusional.

09/11/2012 09:01 AMPosted by Gunny
The simple solution to make BGs more fun and less of a place people just go to grind honor is to match premades with other premades based on the size of the group.
No that is not the solution... pugs generally suck because most random BG players are either bad or don't care about winning. Separating solo from group queue would reward these clowns for being bad... that may not be your intent but it would be the outcome.
Edited by Faenya on 9/11/2012 9:43 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
12745
The simple solution to make BGs more fun and less of a place people just go to grind honor is to match premades with other premades based on the size of the group.
No that is not the solution... pugs generally suck because most random BG players are either bad or don't care about winning. Separating solo from group queue would reward these clowns for being bad... that may not be your intent but it would be the outcome.


Actually, he hit the nail on the head. Make BGs fun again. There are various ways Blizzard could do this: seperate the queues, implement a system that rates playes and puts them with simularly rated players, implement a system that balances teams out class wise so that each team has the same amount of healers, and Im sure there are a half-dozen others that would help too. I can say emphatically that the current start of BG PvP is utter garbage and it needs fixing.
Edited by Casine on 9/11/2012 9:54 AM PDT
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88 Human Priest
2300
09/11/2012 09:40 AMPosted by Faenya
No it isn't... if you think that individual players have nothing to do with winning/losing BGs then you are completely delusional.


I meant who you are matched up against. Is luck. You could be getting sent into a BG full of baddies that are 5-man premade or up against a 5-man pro group or a team full of random baddies or full of random people whole just end up working together. You have to know how to play the game(BG) too in order to win.
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85 Night Elf Priest
5010
09/11/2012 09:52 AMPosted by Casine
Actually, he hit the nail on the head.
I think he missed the nail & struck himself in the head.

09/11/2012 09:52 AMPosted by Casine
Make BGs fun again.
My idea of fun is different than a lot of players, which is winning... their idea of fun is ignoring objectives & "PvPing" in mid or on the roads... diametrically opposed ideas.

09/11/2012 09:52 AMPosted by Casine
There are various ways Blizzard could do this: seperate the queues, implement a system that rates playes and puts them with simularly rated players,
Which again rewards bad players & punishes good players, so I would be absolutely opposed to this. How does it reward bad players & punish good players you might ask? Well by lowering the bar for the mouth breathers & raising the bar for the good players, yet providing the same reward for both. RBGs are harder to win than BGs but give a higher reward; PvE heroics are harder than normals but give a higher reward. This idea gives no added reward for the higher difficulty.

09/11/2012 09:52 AMPosted by Casine
I can say emphatically that the current start of BG PvP is utter garbage and it needs fixing.
It is garbage because of garbage players, not game mechanics.
Edited by Faenya on 9/11/2012 10:49 AM PDT
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57 Orc Death Knight
100
It happens, wait 5-10 minutes to get a different group of people, if it happens again, wait 5-10 minutes ago. Once you start winning start instant queuing as soon as the BG is done.
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17 Night Elf Hunter
8245
I kinda agree to a point with the OP on this topic. But the thing(s) I disagree with are that with premades is that theyre the only factor which have a 50% of being a very coherent team. On my Tauren Blood DK my pug team ran up against a supposed 6 man premade from Frostmourne on CTA Gilneas. We were down initially like 100-70 then started to faceroll them. Me and another blood dk were the only ones holding WW against 7-8 allis attackin for about 5-8 mins. The rest of my group mustve intentionally left LH alone till we got 1900 points then capped. Till then I was guessing they were farming what they could at the alliance start point and me and the other blood dk got the leftovers lol.

You can guess now that the whole deal with the BGs being balanced is utter BS on a class layout standpoint. But the fact still stays 50-50 on if you get 5 or more ppl from the same realm, that theyre either a premade of a random group of ppl pulled from the same realm or an actual premade group of 5 or more.
Edited by Lotionshots on 9/11/2012 12:01 PM PDT
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85 Orc Hunter
3890
Blizzard seems to believe there's a good reason, and a number of blue posters have said they do it themselves.

Queuing as a group doesn't mean anything beyond that they queued as a group. It doesn't indicate anything about their gear, skill, coordination, or their ability to win.


Really, no gear, skill, or coordination. I run Pre-Mades on my healer and not only do we require a certain Item Level, we also use Skype and use some of the strategies we use in a RBG.
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90 Worgen Druid
6070
Most, but not all of you missed the point by about a nautical mile. I do lose a lot as alliance in my battlegroup (it seems like about 80% since the patch spread over about 150 BG's in multiple brackets [largely 85]), but that's not what I'm arguing.
It's a fair guess to say that 5 players that queue up together are likely to be more organized than 5 random players thrown together. It is, in my experience, highly likely that they're even coordinating on something akin to Ventrilo. This is type of group seriously imbalances random PvP battlegrounds. Unless you intend to argue that balance is not a priority in PvP then something should be done to correct this.
If it were a fairly even spread amongst the factions then this may even itself out over enough BGs. This has not been my experience. My experience recently has been that over 50% (probably more like 75%) of call to arms battleground Horde groups have at least one premade of not less than 3 players. Over that same spread of BG's (about 80 or so in the 85 bracket), I've run into less Alliance premades than I can count on one hand.
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85 Night Elf Priest
5010
09/11/2012 11:21 AMPosted by Gunny
All you're doing here is arguing for a system that takes the challenge out for many, and takes the fun out for others
Not even remotely close to what I am arguing for. Believe it or not I am arguing for fairness, not rewarding failing and/or bad players. I believe at the end of the day the winners should get more & the losers get less... and the more successful players should not be penalized for succeeding.

09/11/2012 11:21 AMPosted by Gunny
Your attitude is pretty clear based on the descriptors you use.
My attitude is everyone should earn what they have... be it wins or gear or whatever. I have zero tolerance for players that farm mid/fight on the roads & ignore objectives, because they are liabilities to my team and are counter-productive to my ultimate goal, which is to win. I have my fun by winning.

09/11/2012 11:21 AMPosted by Gunny
Blizzards lack of effort at balancing PvP outside of 3v3 high end arenas has sucked the fun out of it for casuals.
You seem to equate casual with the mouth breathers fighting in mid & ignoring objectives... I have a word for those players but it isn't casual. I am a casual player so I take offense to being lumped in with them.

09/11/2012 11:21 AMPosted by Gunny
Nobody wants to lose their advantages so I fully expect all you 3v3 teams that queue for randoms, and the Rated BG teams that use AV Enabler to do the same to argue against any sort of change that would cause you to have to queue against like groups. I guess for some means honor points and wins with no challenge?
You are completely missing the point... I love a challenge... I am just absolutely opposed to any system that rewards losers and/or lazy players (like handing out the best gear to everyone, conquest points for losers, the idea presented here, etc). If you want the gear you need to earn it... same goes with wins... I HATE the entitlement mentality with a vengeance.
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85 Blood Elf Mage
2160


The only reason I brought your thread up was to bring attention to the fact there are people who play either the horde or the alliance that feel that for whatever reason they are losing far more often than their opposing factions counterparts.

Matter of fact here is another thread started by someone who seems to lose a majority of their matches no matter what faction he plays:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6521153918

If anything you said was correct then this could not possibly be the case right? How could members of opposing factions on the same server, in the same battlegroup lose such a disproportionate amount of games?


Firstly, he is not saying that his different faction characters are on the same server. In fact he is implying that they are on different servers by saying that he created the other faction char to play with a friend. It is unlikely that his friend created a char that just happened to be on his server.

Secondly, I'm not claiming that I know how the system works, I was venturing a logical guess that blizzard groups people into the pvp queue from server groups that are based on location to minimize bandwidth issues. And it's easy to see how those groups could be unbalanced relative to the number of serious pvp players on one server vs another.

Anyway, this back and forth with you is getting old. I posted on this forum because I was frustrated. Though what is the point, blizzard does not seem to even read these posts, nor do they have a customer service process were their customers can voice complaints, or offer suggestions, about their product. But I thought maybe I could at least have an intelligent discussion with others about what causes this pvp imbalance and what could be done about it. Instead what I found were angry small minded responses of s t f u and ltp. It is interesting to me that people like you and Faenya seem to tirelessly troll these forums ready to attack any post that says the pvp system is imbalanced. And I wonder if that isn't because you are afraid that your pvp win record, that you are so proud of, is not so much a matter of you being such a great skilled player, but rather it is more luck of the draw. You happen to be put on teams of more skilled players going up against noobs or non-pvp'ers looking for honor points. I know that is unthinkable for you.

In any case one thing I am absolutely sure of, (though I doubt you will believe it as it would take too much for you to think outside of your own little box), is that if you were in some of the pvp games I've been talking about, if you are any kind of a player that you say you are, you would be frustrated too. Unless of course you don't mind that your team is running around in circles, saying just let them win, or you actually enjoy getting gang raped. Which if you do, hey that's cool, no judgment here.
Edited by Paranova on 9/11/2012 1:30 PM PDT
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85 Blood Elf Mage
2160
09/11/2012 12:25 PMPosted by Faenya
You are completely missing the point... I love a challenge... I am just absolutely opposed to any system that rewards losers and/or lazy players (like handing out the best gear to everyone, conquest points for losers, the idea presented here, etc). If you want the gear you need to earn it... same goes with wins... I HATE the entitlement mentality with a vengeance.


You say you hate the entitlement mentality, but what if you are actually the entitled one here. Did you ever stop to think for a second that if there really was an imbalance in the pvp system that you may be on the side that benefits by that imbalance. The imbalance being that you are constantly being pitted against non-serious, non-pvp players. And where is the challenge in that?
Edited by Paranova on 9/11/2012 1:54 PM PDT
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