Sacred Shield VS. Eternal Flame

85 Human Paladin
11845
Well Here's the discussion...Eternal flame can be on multiple targets and the actual first hit if crits usually a lot for about 90+k but replaces word of glory. The tick afterwards ticks for 6-8k every 2-3 secs and if on multiple targets on fights where everyone is taking damage randomly like heroic zonozz I feel like eternal flame could be much better then sacred shield.Also Lasts for 30 secs after.

Sacred shield however is 12-14k shield every 5.25 secs on target and you still get word of glory to use for holy power. It seems like both really could become useful. I think on fights where maybe its just the tank taking damage like on morchok really or Warmaster heroic/regular sacred shield would be argued is a better talent. I'm not sure I have done 1 8/8 heroic so far and seemed like eternal flame actually was the better overall.

Give me some of you other hpally's input. Thanks!
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90 Human Paladin
7130
eternal flame tooltip says it heals less initially for me than wog does in holy gear but not in ret so id say when your tank is taking heavy damage and you are primarily healing them go sacred shield but for more aoe intensive fights eternal flame is a nice little buffer to put on people and you could probably get it on quite a few people before the first one reach the limit of its duration.
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85 Human Paladin
11845
yea with holly avenger i can get literally 8-9 maybe entire raid eternal flamed because i throw one up hit holy avenger holy shock another EF,holy radiance.. another EF,holy shock another and rinse and repeat and even divine light tank here and there during it and def can get entire raid like heroic zonozz with one holy avenger
Edited by Sephiriya on 9/7/2012 9:57 AM PDT
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90 Draenei Paladin
0
I personally prefer EF for three reasons:

1. One less button to push. I already have about 9-10 spells im using so I try to limit them if I can.

2. Tank benefits from EF via Beacon of light. If you have EF on 4-5 teammates it would actually put a very nice HoT on your tank that would heal him for a lot more than SS.

3. Im already geared and reforged for haste and EF would benefit that, though I see more and more pallies switching to mastery now (usually the ones that take SS, despite the fact that SS doesnt benefit from mastery)
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90 Dwarf Paladin
8730
I feel it is dependant on the encounter. A lot of aoe heals needed the SS if you have the time to get HP then EF. Also depends on play-style. Seeing as how you can change at the cost of an item what difference does it make use one where you think it is more effective and when you need to, switch to the other. We are not tied to one for the duration of the raid are we?
To many factores to say one is better than the other all times, so back to play-style i use both, depends on the fight.
Edited by Stouthalfpin on 9/7/2012 11:21 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10215
At the moment I am tending to use EF, because it seems almost broken for it's initial hit (115k crit is the highest I have seen in PVE) and with the hot proc'ing/refreshing mastery that adds a little bonus. SS just seems kinda of lackluster, more of a tank filler than anything.

It'll be interesting to see the spells @ 90.
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90 Human Paladin
10165
Strictly PvE, I'd say baseline SS vs EF is fairly balanced. But EF seems a bit more powerful when you factor in HA/DP, due to the increased usage. I dont know if SS gets any bonus from Wings but I doubt it, whereas EF does. Same for Divine Favor.

And with the recent SS change, you get penalized a full absorb cycle (6 seconds) for allowing SS to fall off. On the plus side, SS absorbs more on a Tank then an EF HoT.

For PvP, they both suck. WTB Spellsteal!
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90 Human Paladin
3570
Holy Avenger + Holy Radiance + Day Break + Holy Shock + EFF

is crazy delicious

Dropped SS and respecced, EFF healing output is crazy also, with Mastery my Bubbles are maxing very quickly. Dropping 44K bubbles is nice.
Edited by Billydee on 9/7/2012 12:09 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
MHC
10485
In my raid testing I found that Sacred Shield and using Dawn of Light as a HP dump was better than not having Sacred Shield and using Eternal Flame in almost every case, despite Eternal Flame providing more raw healing.

I suspect the reason for this is that other healers have so many HoTs built into their arsenal that the Eternal Flame ticks are mostly wasted. For example, Wild Growth, Holy Priest mastery, Healing Rain, Renewing Mists, etc. I also had trouble using it regularly in a case where even the initial heal would not over heal. In almost every circumstance I came across DoL was a better use of HP because it is smart and less prone to overhealing.

I see people suggesting it for heavy AoE fights but we already have amazing tools to fill that damage profile. HR>HR>HS>LoD.

The only times in DS when the healing profile of Eternal Flame matches the damage profile of the encounter is the black phase of Zon'ozz H (though I'd still take SS over EF here because of the infrequency of the black phase), Second phases of Hagara H, and spine for debuffs.

It's a (really really really) good talent, but only if the encounter has spike damage to a couple of players that aren't tanks fairly frequently throughout the fight that is followed by a fairly long DoT or coupled with a raid-wide AoE.
Edited by Andokas on 9/7/2012 4:44 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13050
In an older thread I talked about competitive mechanics with healing as a holy Pally and having spells compete for holy power as mentioned with eternal flame and light of dawn is another example of similar issue of how they have increased the spells we use but not the resources they draw from. It was simple when it was just mana. I'm sure things will get better, look at the Cata release it was great for holy on release, then we got nerfed and when DS came things were quite ok again.
The HS>HR>HR>LoD that a lot of us use to aoe heal say on Ultraxion or Deathwing is much harder to maintain now due to mana use and to some extent unviable for the whole fight like it use to be. There are quite a few combinations to play with now to aoe heal, depending on talents and glyphs. A bit confusing but remember as we level to 90 all of our stats seriously drop until we hit end game gear and its not until that point that we start to figure out how to best manage our stats and what works best. A bit of a wait to see how it goes.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12510
Whenever i raid with my guild my tank i usually heal is a Prot pally who loves the !@#$ out of SS, so im free to go EF. when im not with him, i stiff feel that EF is the better skill to use. sure, its not as great as a shield as SS is, but I still get the hot from EF, which is extremely helpful in H Zon or when im lucky in H Yor.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12510
09/08/2012 01:26 AMPosted by Emerelf
There are quite a few combinations to play with now to aoe heal, depending on talents and glyphs.


and for this i feel that HR>HS is a better combo, merely because the shock gets an aoe effect from doing HR first
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
5940
As a pure prot pally there is no contest in my opinion. Having sacred shield + WoG handy just trash any use EF could ever have.

I have tested both out, but the emergency on demand full hp heal of WoG + 5 bastion stacks is just a life saver. Its the same as having a 2nd lay on hands at the ready. Healer dies, afks, or twiddle's their tumbs on a boss, I can easily use holy avenger and spam WoG's hefty heals on myself with our mastery's boost to it.

I won't pretend to say which is better for the other 2 specs, but for prot, SS + WoG all the way.
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90 Human Paladin
13710
I haven't tried it at all, but in situations where there is a lot of AE damage going out, trying to build up 3 HoPo to put a hot on ONE person at a time seems a little silly when you can use those HoPo charges to LoD.

Plus, having SS is amazing for heavy movement fights and you can't cast anything (since they took away instant FoL) and you need to make sure that there is SOMETHING on your tank.

SS + WoG = Amazing. You'd be sacrificing having two tools in your belt for just one HoT.

Not worth it, IMO.
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90 Human Paladin
12740
I did the math on this and as far as raw output is concerned it's pretty clear that SS + LoD hitting max targets is far and away the most bang for the buck. When you are dealing with fewer targets and putting up multiple EF then that is likely slightly ahead.

In 25m I can't think of many situations where I'd rather be using my HP for a single target than multiple targets. I can certainly understand that a 10m healer would be a little more inclined to EF and in fact it might be a HPM increase.

SS being free means I can swap it around as much as I want to with literally no penalty so I don't have issues with wasted overheals or unused absorbs. Often having a player just not take damage is going to be preferable to healing (and potentially overhealing) the damage they do take.

There's probably no right answer for all raid sizes and all encounters but baseline for 25m will be SS for me.
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90 Human Paladin
9015
I also have not played with EF. I still dont understand why ppl say that it's great for puting HOTs on ppl when you could of use that HP for LOD. I am really intrested in everyone thoughts about this.
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90 Human Paladin
13250
ok after raiding the second week of new talents and all seems like single damage ss works a little better but on 10 man fights were like zonozz and spine and madness EF def the way to go.

I don't know i will see after this week depending on how things go might just try and see
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90 Tauren Paladin
5335
Dragonmaw procs with Eternal Flame ticks. I think EF is better than SS, especially if you have maw. Its just the better choice, because it makes maw proc a lot. At least for me.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12475
Its literally 100% dependant on how much you use LoD vs WoG.
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