Forsaken and sensations, in-game texts

84 Undead Hunter
3030
I know the general belief is Forsaken do not feel pain, do not need to breathe, do not need to eat or sleep, etc. I personally RP my Forsaken as not feeling normal kinds of pain, like a broken bone. He only eats out of habit (and maybe because he feels some responsibility to feed the worms living in his belly), and he might sigh out of old habit as well.

However, there are some in-game texts that sort of blur the line a little and I wanted to see some opinions on the matter.

For instance, Godfrey babbles about how amazing it is to be undead, because he can now breathe underwater something like 213% (or some such statistic) longer than the living can. And it's true the Undead can stay under water long, but eventually they -do- run out of air and have to come to the surface. Do Forsaken just breathe or use oxygen somehow at a much slower rate?

Later, when Godfrey shoots Sylvanas and she's brought back to life, she winces in pain according to the quest text. Is she wincing from the pain of her wound or is she wincing in some sort of mental anguish over what might become of her Forsaken/herself?

The Light is reportedly very painful to the Forsaken, though I read on WoWpedia or WoWIKI (it was one or the other) that it can -heal- them, it just hurts like the @*##ens to stand it long enough to let it do so.

While a Deathknight is not quite the same thing as a Forsaken, they are both undead. Koltira, during the DK questline when he's being held prisoner in the basement, says he thinks he has internal bleeding. To have internal bleeding, something there is still pumping blood. Do Forsaken's organs, if they are intact enough to work, pump ichor or old blood?

For emotions - a lot of people hold to the idea the Forsaken feel nothing but anger, or really don't even feel that and just cling to some "ghost" of an emotion. Yet during the beginning quests in Tirisfal, newly risen Forsaken all react differently to their state of unlife. One accepts it solemnly, one freaks out because she thinks she's a monster (and later you find she fears rejection from her father/the Scarlet Crusade, which is exactly what happens), and one runs off in complete denial and turns on the rest of the Forsaken to lead a band of gnolls against them.

Later, we find a Forsaken who is bored and apathetic until you bring him a pet murloc. Later quests involving the 7th Legion, we find Forsaken soldiers who have been scared into cowering and pleading by these soldiers.

Further on, we have a Forsaken in the Sludgefields that finds the atrocities committed there so bad that the others involved should be put to death for their crimes. Whether he is personally outraged (it's clear he's mad about being imprisoned by them) or angry because it endangers the Forsaken as a whole is unclear. But it's apparent he's pretty pissed, one way or another.

There are a few examples of "good" Forsaken in the game, too, who feel it their duty to redeem themselves and help others. Roberick Dartfall and Leonid Barthalomew the Revered are two examples, but there are a few scattered about here and there.

Anyway, how do people explain this in RP situations? I can only say that while my own Forsaken doesn't feel much physical pain, is color blind, and has lost his sense of taste and smell, he has a distinct sense of morals and is pretty neutral about most things rather than being bent on vengeance. He also has a pretty keen sense of humor and dry wit. So he has some emotions, and even has some remnants of his old human personality left over.
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85 Undead Rogue
3220
Godfrey was probably making a refereence to the game mechanic as a joke. But (spoiler alert)there's a journal in mists from an orc ship captain that sais forsaken wewren't able to drown. We also see them chilling out under water in the worgen starting zone.

As for emotions, they are blunted but present. The forsaken helped Baine take back ThunderBluff and when Baine expressed surprise at this, they said they remember what the tauren had done for them by helping them get in the horde.

All in all, the forsaken as a society are very pragmatic and keep score on their friends and their enemies.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
5780
09/10/2012 07:16 AMPosted by Vorenth
While a Deathknight is not quite the same thing as a Forsaken, they are both undead. Koltira, during the DK questline when he's being held prisoner in the basement, says he thinks he has internal bleeding. To have internal bleeding, something there is still pumping blood. Do Forsaken's organs, if they are intact enough to work, pump ichor or old blood?


The only reason the heart of a Death Knight pumps is because of the crazy amount of necrotic energy coursing through them. Presumably, it's different for the Forsaken.
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90 Draenei Paladin
4595
The Light is reportedly very painful to the Forsaken, though I read on WoWpedia or WoWIKI (it was one or the other) that it can -heal- them, it just hurts like the @*##ens to stand it long enough to let it do so.

Another interesting thing about that is that prolonged exposure to the Light causes the Forsaken to begin to regain small amounts of their senses. Unfortunately, this often leads to insanity due to their new ability to feel pain, smell their rotting flesh and taste their rotting mouth. Keep in mind though, they only gain a small fraction of their pre-deceased senses and is exceedingly rare.
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85 Human Warrior
10760
For emotions - a lot of people hold to the idea the Forsaken feel nothing but anger, or really don't even feel that and just cling to some "ghost" of an emotion. Yet during the beginning quests in Tirisfal, newly risen Forsaken all react differently to their state of unlife. One accepts it solemnly, one freaks out because she thinks she's a monster (and later you find she fears rejection from her father/the Scarlet Crusade, which is exactly what happens), and one runs off in complete denial and turns on the rest of the Forsaken to lead a band of gnolls against them.

Later, we find a Forsaken who is bored and apathetic until you bring him a pet murloc. Later quests involving the 7th Legion, we find Forsaken soldiers who have been scared into cowering and pleading by these soldiers.

Forsaken are human, just dead, and a bit more epic. They have emotions, bu they're dulled, most likely due to emotional trauma. They all can feel all emotions others can, unless rot brained, but most are overpowered by rage and trauma from becoming the very thing they tried to slaughter, then finding out they were thinking and conscious of their own lack of will.
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84 Undead Hunter
3030
Interesting stuff. I wonder if the "new" Forsaken, in general, have a little less rage since they ARE given a choice according to the questline and were never part of the Scourge? Vorenth died relatively "at peace" knowing his family was safe and far away in Stormwind, or I imagine he might be a little more "rage filled" because of grief and worry.

As for the breathing thing - hm. I wonder why Blizzard just doesn't make it a racial trait, like Iksar in EQ2 (who can breathe under water and don't drown)? It might clear up some confusion about it.

As for the Light possibly bringing back some sensations - I hadn't read that. I can imagine just the intense pain itself would be very traumatic after feeling no or very dulled pain in undeath. I know the Forsaken (or many of them) seek and practice ways to slow themselves from rotting and there is no canon Lore on just how fast or slowly they decompose, but the thought of tasting one's own rotting mouth :| that'd be awful.

Forsaken are sort of "damned if you do, damned if you don't" when it comes to insanity I guess. Even the "sane" ones are probably a little off their rocker. I can't imagine anyone staying completely sane after dying and being brought back to life, losing all or many physical sensations and having such skewed emotions. My character has some PTSD that is deeply buried, and he's not angsty, but I'm sure some situations can trigger a good deal of anger or resentment and regret. Fortunately none of those situations have arisen yet.

I know the Forsaken use ichor in their bodies - is this to help slow rotting?
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85 Human Warrior
10760
09/11/2012 10:24 AMPosted by Vorenth
As for the breathing thing - hm. I wonder why Blizzard just doesn't make it a racial trait, like Iksar in EQ2 (who can breathe under water and don't drown)? It might clear up some confusion about it.

For the breathing underwater bilge, it's up in the air, one might be less rotted than another, so, organs might just work, and, most people, just say they don't breath, but their body falls apart if spending too much time in the water.
The same sort of goes with being killed. Some quests suggest that an undead can remain alive even after their body is dismembered. Some say they can pull their body back together again, and some say they need some help from a friend to put the pieces together. Most people will most likely tell you that undead die like the average human, which, doesn't make much sense, but it's a way to avoid god-mods.

09/11/2012 10:24 AMPosted by Vorenth
Even the "sane" ones are probably a little off their rocker.

No doubt, it's a traumaitc event, you're most likely to get a bit of amnesia, or just crack all together. If forsaken weren't crazy, you think they'd be building plagues to destroy the living? Not likely, and they problably be crawling back to the alliance on their hands and knees the first chance they got after Arthas lost control of them if they had all their senses. so, yeah, a little craziness doesn't hurt when RPing a forsaken
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85 Human Warrior
10760
09/11/2012 10:24 AMPosted by Vorenth
I know the Forsaken use ichor in their bodies - is this to help slow rotting?

Who knows, probably to keep you from being just pure bone, or to help your muscles work right, doesn't really matter, I guess, just say you got it and let it be.

Undead FTW
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90 Tauren Druid
19085
09/11/2012 10:41 AMPosted by Magjor
and they problably be crawling back to the alliance on their hands and knees the first chance they got after Arthas lost control of them if they had all their senses


Actually they DID try this after Arthas lost control over them. Problem was their loved ones and the rest of the people they tried to return to saw them as scourge and tried to kill them / drive them away. That is why they are called Forsaken... because they were rejected by their living families.
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84 Undead Hunter
3030
and they problably be crawling back to the alliance on their hands and knees the first chance they got after Arthas lost control of them if they had all their senses


Actually they DID try this after Arthas lost control over them. Problem was their loved ones and the rest of the people they tried to return to saw them as scourge and tried to kill them / drive them away. That is why they are called Forsaken... because they were rejected by their living families.


Yeah I had read that somewhere as well, or heard it from someone I was RPing with. I can imagine that just screwed many of them up in their brains even more. Good stuff to work with for RP with the Forsaken Lore. Vorenth is actively staying -away- from the entire Stormwind region due to a fear of what his living family might do if they saw him such a state. Not something that would be pleasant to go through at all, for either party.
Edited by Vorenth on 9/11/2012 11:39 AM PDT
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09/11/2012 11:38 AMPosted by Vorenth
Yeah I had read that somewhere as well, or heard it from someone I was RPing with. I can imagine that just screwed many of them up in their brains even more. Good stuff to work with for RP with the Forsaken Lore. Vorenth is actively staying -away- from the entire Stormwind region due to a fear of what his living family might do if they saw him such a state. Not something that would be pleasant to go through at all, for either party.


Yea, that's what this guy is generally doing (although if the Forsaken ever marched in force down there he would go.) He is also quite thankful for the SI:7's "cleaning" upon his death, as far as the public knows, he just died. That's it. But these thoughts are fading rapidly as he serves his new queen.

09/10/2012 07:16 AMPosted by Vorenth
Further on, we have a Forsaken in the Sludgefields that finds the atrocities committed there so bad that the others involved should be put to death for their crimes. Whether he is personally outraged (it's clear he's mad about being imprisoned by them) or angry because it endangers the Forsaken as a whole is unclear. But it's apparent he's pretty pissed, one way or another.


He's pissed because the leader of the Sludgefields committed the greatest atrocity of all... well two of them actually. First, he was accelerating many Forsaken's mindlessness clocks. (Effectively true death for them.) Second, he had gone traitor and may (it's been awhile since I was there) have been trying to instigate a rebellion. Both of these are the two highest crimes to the Forsaken.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
9660
Well, obviously not all the forsaken are the same, theydidn't all get raised the same way. Some were raised by the plague, others by necromancers, others by the Val'kyr. Adding to that, there's the different levels of decomposition. Those could explain why they are different.

Needs-wise, there are more sources that indicate they don't need to breathe at all, but ultimatelly it's probably a case by case matter. Perhaps there are some that don't need to breathe because they're entirelly powered by necrotic magic, while there are others that still need their organs.

Food is a tricky one. They do have canibalize after all. I would suggest that they don't need to eat to sustain themselves, but the do need to eat to heal. Need the bricks to repair the wall after all.

Sleep is mostly accepted as nonexistant for the undead, as far as from WC3, the dark ranger hero would say (Jockingly, but still in-character) that she can work 24 hours a day.

From an emotional point of view, they do have emotions. They are more apathetic than the living, and some are more apathetic than others, but they do feel emotions. Particularly fear and anger seem to be as strong as if they were alive. Sylvanas herself displays anger very commonly, and has been known to display fear. She has also in rare ocasions displayed affection (like in the lament of the highborne quest chain, where she sings). The Barov brothers eventually joined forces in Cataclysm Sholomance (before it was changed for MoP) and one's alive and the other's forsaken. So yes, they can feel emotions, even positive ones, but they're more apathetic, cynical and sarcastic than the living. They can also overcome any emotion thanks to the will of the forsaken.

From a pain PoV, they do seem to feel pain just as anyone else. The difference is they can more easilly overcome it. There's a reason the scarlet crusade was torturing them. It would seem that both emotionally and physically they're resistant to pain and emotions because they've suffered so much, particularly those that were once within the scourge.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
9660
09/11/2012 09:39 AMPosted by Pallyordeath
The Light is reportedly very painful to the Forsaken, though I read on WoWpedia or WoWIKI (it was one or the other) that it can -heal- them, it just hurts like the @*##ens to stand it long enough to let it do so.

Another interesting thing about that is that prolonged exposure to the Light causes the Forsaken to begin to regain small amounts of their senses. Unfortunately, this often leads to insanity due to their new ability to feel pain, smell their rotting flesh and taste their rotting mouth. Keep in mind though, they only gain a small fraction of their pre-deceased senses and is exceedingly rare.

It also heals them. I guess the holy light is to the forsaken like alcohol on an infected wound, only all over their body. It's actually good for them, it cleanses undeath and heals their bodies, but it hurts like hell and they gain conciousness of their own disgustness. It's possible that a long enough exposure to the holy light would cure them, but by then they'd have gone completelly insane. But herhaps they could use small doses of holy light to avoid decomposition. It'd be like going to the dentist, it sucks, but you do it because it's good in the long run.

On the topic of the Ichor, when the forsaken are hit by melee, they bleed bright green.

09/11/2012 06:34 PMPosted by Reald
He's pissed because the leader of the Sludgefields committed the greatest atrocity of all... well two of them actually. First, he was accelerating many Forsaken's mindlessness clocks. (Effectively true death for them.) Second, he had gone traitor and may (it's been awhile since I was there) have been trying to instigate a rebellion. Both of these are the two highest crimes to the Forsaken.

Raising the dead the old fashion way like that guy is disagreed with and the forsaken hate it, but I don't think it's nessesarilly a crime. I'd have to go through that questline again. The crime part is what he was doing with the other forsaken and the revolt thing.
Edited by Dawnsorrow on 9/12/2012 10:07 AM PDT
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72 Draenei Shaman
6485
Thank you, green poster. You do us all proud ^
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