Vengance

85 Human Warrior
1955
Is vengance really needed in the game anymore?

Given as it was introduced to solve sustained tank threat late in WOTLK, and with the release of Cata, and patch 5.0, the threat issue it was brought in to solve has been fixed.

While turining up to a raid, and critting for upwards of 200k is all well and good, it feels like it has taken the fun out of getting gear upgrades. I currently have about 8k AP, and when vengance has been granting me up to 60k AP, it feels like my gear no longer matters for threat.

Please nerf vengance, or at least cap it based on AP (maybe twice current AP before vengange is added) and buff the base threat a bit more if you have to in order to maintain threat levels
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90 Pandaren Warrior
15860
It was capped.

5.0 Uncapped it.

It was never about sustained threat, it was about SCALING.

Also gear didn't matter for threat either. Only the gear of your rogues and hunters
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Short answer: Yes it is needed, your shield barrier for example, scales with it.
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90 Draenei Paladin
15075
i believe you can right click it off, unless they changed that... if you can just make a macro to /cancelaura it all the time.

Come back crying when you lose agro to mages and locks and all kinds of stuff.
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90 Pandaren Warrior
15860
09/12/2012 12:52 AMPosted by Barfus
i believe you can right click it off, unless they changed that


You can.

Also, to the OP, getting gear upgrades as a tank has never really even been fun to begin with except for the one piece that put you over 102.4, I guess maybe, or maybe weapons/shields. But you should never have been thinking "SWEET IF I GET THIS NEW UPGRADE ILL STOP LOSING AGGRO!"
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90 Human Death Knight
14410
oh come on now, tanks vengeance bugs out on H Madness, so a impale gives pally tanks 210k attack power?

LETS KEEP IT AROUND!
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90 Orc Death Knight
7780
Saw a tank in LFR (in all dps gear) spike to 116k on ultraxion. He levelled out to about 67k and was no 1 dps by a mile (second was someone with a legendary staff; I was 3rd /cry).
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90 Human Paladin
12965
oh come on now, tanks vengeance bugs out on H Madness, so a impale gives pally tanks 210k attack power?

LETS KEEP IT AROUND!


Right - because we should totally base game design decisions for an entire expansion around old (and now sometimes buggy) content that will be almost completely ignored two weeks from now. Great plan!

@OP: The issue Vengeance was originally designed to solve is that in later raiding tiers, DPS are stacking mostly damage stats while tanks are stacking mostly survival stats - resulting in DPS damage output scaling up much faster than tank threat output.

That problem has not (and probably never will) go away.

Vengeance is now also helping to resolve tank scaling issues in 10-man vs 25-man raiding - bosses hit substantially harder in 25-man, and so tank defensive abilities that are AP-based and not percentage based (such as Shield Barrier and WoG) need to scale accordingly to remain relevant. The new Vengeance design gives tanks the scaling they need in this area, too.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
5960
Look it's another vengeance thread ... let's see how people are misunderstanding vengeance in this new thread. Will it be different than the last 10 threads? I WONDER!!!!

09/12/2012 05:40 AMPosted by Ghatok
Saw a tank in LFR (in all dps gear) spike to 116k on ultraxion. He levelled out to about 67k and was no 1 dps by a mile (second was someone with a legendary staff; I was 3rd /cry).


Yes because tanks wearing DPS gear in old content is relevant and matters ... oh wait no it doesn't.

oh come on now, tanks vengeance bugs out on H Madness, so a impale gives pally tanks 210k attack power?

LETS KEEP IT AROUND!


Analyzing new xpac mechanics on the old xpac content is pretty genius ... oh wait no it isn't.

09/11/2012 07:21 PMPosted by Denia
Is vengance really needed in the game anymore?


Yes, do your homework. It scales up many defensives now to match damage taken.
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90 Tauren Death Knight
12465
oh come on now, tanks vengeance bugs out on H Madness, so a impale gives pally tanks 210k attack power?


pretty sure that gets impaled gets super atk pwr
Edited by Nastirr on 9/12/2012 9:02 AM PDT
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39 Worgen Warlock
0
Let's compare Impale and not Baleroc.

Yes...

Impale is the problem...
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90 Troll Death Knight
0
09/12/2012 05:40 AMPosted by Ghatok
Saw a tank in LFR (in all dps gear) spike to 116k on ultraxion. He levelled out to about 67k and was no 1 dps by a mile (second was someone with a legendary staff; I was 3rd /cry).


It gets even better in heroics 25s

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-xd206j193y3rpy5i/sum/damageDone/?s=3621&e=3815
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90 Night Elf Druid
13785
oh come on now, tanks vengeance bugs out on H Madness, so a impale gives pally tanks 210k attack power?

LETS KEEP IT AROUND!


Bugs?

Umm... do you not understand what uncapped means? Or how it scales from unmitigated damage, not mitigated?

/sigh
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90 Dwarf Warrior
14765
09/12/2012 11:21 AMPosted by Mortalitus
Saw a tank in LFR (in all dps gear) spike to 116k on ultraxion. He levelled out to about 67k and was no 1 dps by a mile (second was someone with a legendary staff; I was 3rd /cry).


It gets even better in heroics 25s

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-xd206j193y3rpy5i/sum/damageDone/?s=3621&e=3815


I want to get hit by a H Impale just to see how massive my next Shield Barrier would get.
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90 Draenei Paladin
8000
oh come on now, tanks vengeance bugs out on H Madness, so a impale gives pally tanks 210k attack power?

LETS KEEP IT AROUND!


Or we could ignore the bug since it's obsolete content in 10 days.

Yea... I like that idea.
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90 Tauren Warrior
10720
09/12/2012 01:41 PMPosted by Quard
I want to get hit by a H Impale just to see how massive my next Shield Barrier would get.


Wasn't watching my Barrier, but my 725K Shield Slam was awesome lol.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
14920
09/14/2012 11:23 AMPosted by Altairia
bug


What part isn't working as intended?
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90 Night Elf Druid
CFT
10670
bug


What part isn't working as intended?


1,200,000 * 0.02 = 24,000. Not 240,000k.

There's something wrong with Impale that's messing with Vengeance calculations.

Edit: Or it's possible that people could somehow be gaming the initial Vengeance buff for attack power they shouldn't have.
Edited by Arielle on 9/14/2012 12:47 PM PDT
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39 Worgen Warlock
0
09/14/2012 12:46 PMPosted by Arielle
1,200,000 * 0.02 = 24,000


If Vengeance is currently functioning as 20%, not 2%, then we have serious concerns for tank threat should it be fixed.
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90 Pandaren Warrior
9230
vengeance increases our dps, and on dps check bosses even tank dps is looked at.
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