World of Warcraft®

OP.

Why do you want to force people to group to do things?

I am on call at work and sometimes I need to drop what I am doing to fix some problems.

Other times I have plenty of time to just play WoW while keeping an eye on things at night.

I happen to enjoy leveling by myself and doing other things that will NOT impact others if I have to suddenly drop and fix a problem.

So I enjoy being able to do things on my own.

I have a guild when I want to be social.

I have my alts when I just want to "be a loner".

Why do you want to take that aspect of the game away from me?

You probably are not old enough to remember what playing Everquest was like.

I am going to tell you. You had no choice but to group up.

I remember creating my first alt. I went outside and saw my first creature. "A-ha" I thought, I am going to kill it." Suddenly I realized it was red to me. So I started to back away and ran into its friends who quickly killed me.

No problem. I rezzed. Then realized I was naked and had to go to my body to get my stuff. The problem was they were corpse camping me. After 6 attempts to get my body back I rage quit for the night.

Then created another character leaving that one for all time surrounded by corpse campers.

Is THAT what you want?

09/13/2012 06:31 PMPosted by Abjuration

I don't play wow to socialize with other people. I like to log in, do a few things, then log out and be done for the day. I prefer to live outside of the game rather than in it.

yeah but if I pug a dungeon it's a little more cheerful when people are talking most of the time. And by talking I mean chatting about funny things that may have just happened...or cracking jokes...just lightening the mood at least.

Pugs where no one says anything and then finishes the dungeon and leaves without saying anything are super boring...

When people were forced to be nicer, the game was infinitely more enjoyable.

When we added convenience in the way of LFD, LFR, cross-realm BG's, etc. we began to allow people to act like fools and still be able to play the game at the same level as any other player.

This game was different when you had to be nice and personable and social to get anywhere. Jerk, troll, griefer, etc? Forget about raiding, dungeons, or guilds. Players who acted rudely were shunned by most of the community, and in the absence of server transfers they were forced to change their name or reroll. If you were a foul, mean and rude player, you couldn't get a ginvite, much less a dungeon group. This had the benefit of incentivizing good behavior so that players could access all the higher gear and content

10000000 times this. ^^^^

09/13/2012 08:14 PMPosted by Dewan

That's the point of many of the arguments being made here. Old WoW had more socializing because it was absolutely necessary to get anywhere. That's not a good thing for a game meant to cater to numerous players with differing personalities and playstyles.

That is a staple to MMOs though, Did you ever play other MMOs back before WoW. I wouldnt say blizzard destroyed MMOs, but they sure did cripple it when it came to many standards that we saw in this genre. Some players may not like having to be social to get things done in a game, but there are still other things to do in the game....If you want to be able to do all the content in the game but do not want to communicate or anything of the sort, then maybe MMOs arnt for that player? But its too late for that now...blizz has already catered to those lazy gamers.

Yeah, but where are those games that force grouping now? Go level in FFXI, NOBODY likes sitting around for hours waiting for enought people to be around to make a group.

That's why Blizzard went with being more solo friendly, and it worked.

What happened is we just ran out of new players, and the "reward only" attitude of the community kind of brought the desperate need for cross-server instancing.

Really try to think back to early Wrath, or late BC... Try to remember how many gruops failed to ever get fully formed because you just couldn't find anyone that wanted to do Gundrak while they were in full raid gear, while the daily was Violet Hold.

We weren't the helpful community people think they remember, we just had a common reward that we were working towards at the time.

I recently did RaF with my girlfriend and I realized how less social WoW is now. I realized this when she kept telling me how boring it was when she was on because she didn't know anyone. Back when I started playing, there was no cross-realm and you had to ask trade chat to join groups to do dungeons, which you actually had to communicate in. You needed to join a good active guild to survive well. My point is you had to be social and make friends to truly play the game. It's difficult to find social groups besides guilds.

To Blizzard: Do you intend on bringing any of this some what mandatory socialization back to the game?

There is absolutely NOTHING in the game stopping you from doing anything in your post besides your own ignorance.

I tend to agree with OP about the over all social aspect of the game, do I think it is all Blizzard, no, it is a combination of many things from conveniences yes implemented by Blizzard, sites developed and written up by players AND the players themselves.

Can one try to socialize in game, sure they can try but with add ons that display ilvl numbers, achievments etc, if one is trying to socialize in an effort to form a grp with-in their own realm, you have those that imediatley "inspect" and note (in game AND in forums) chants or lack there of, gems or lack there of, achievments particularly in current expansion and then those trying to socialize and form grps accomplish runs are met with the proverbial

"3 missing chants, no ebon steel buckle, 2 missing gems and wrong reforge and no norm ds achievement, LOLOL, fail"

Socialize in the average LFD, all I can do at that is shake my head as most of the LFD runs I did in Wrath were predominaely 1 of 2 types of runs

the silent run, all zoned in and me "hi all, feast out help yrself" met with .................silence

or

all zone in and right off the bat "gogogo, come on you !@#$%, move it, aint got all night, fail ^-*!@, blankety blank blank'

That type of grp play is for me as fun as sitting in a dentist chair getting my teeth drilled and the only sound is the whir of the drill or is like listening to someone who has drank to much and raging at the arresting officer, neither are remotely fun.

Guilds, used to be much more of multiple communities with-in a community, now many are either in-active or filled with members who rely on todays conveniences or are masses of players all wearing the same guild name and only the core members actually socialize.

All of this lead me back to my first days as a brand new player to wow who played solo amidst the masses, fortunatly, wow is a solo game from the second you create that character and hit "enter" right thru max lvl, sadly, as far as "end game" goes, nothing is designed for those who for whatever reason choose to go it solo.

09/13/2012 08:01 PMPosted by Mishotem

But CFZ isn't designed to fix server population, it's meant to fix zone population as a result of no one venturing out into the world.

Stipulated. I understand this and wasn't arguing for CRZ as a means to fix realm population, but as a means for people who didn't want to leave their essentially mature (mostly 85-lvl) servers - where they still have their guilds and friends - to be able to enjoy some mid-zone action without feeling like they're playing a solo game.

09/13/2012 08:01 PMPosted by Mishotem

The thing is, the reason people don't go out into the world is because Blizzard has constantly removed reasons to do so. Group quests - gone. World bosses - gone*. Finding dungeon entrances so you can queue - gone. Questing streamlined down to a "cattle in a chute" level. Add to this LFR and LFG, and it's a constant queue-fest, where the only gameplay reason to be out in the world are is levelling so you can hit max level and queue with everyone else. In a city. I mean, geez, you can even queue for holiday bosses now. No need to bother with that pesky "getting out into the world" thing for even that. It's ridiculous.

Well, look, I'm a Cata guy so all of my information about the good ol' days comes through reading posts on these forums and the threads over at Wowhead regarding classic instances (which I'm really getting into). Near as I can tell pretty much every "cattle chute" change was met more with relief than disappointment. but I wasn't there; I'm just reporting what I've been reading the last few days.

In the context of your argument I'd like to extend my own to suggest that if CRZ can get its bugs worked out that will make it easier for leveling players - especially those of us who like to linger and take our time and really get into the zones rather than rush through them like a can of soda - to hook up with like-minded players, because my experience is that there just aren't enough of us leveling junkies around on any one server to make group quests and world bosses viable. But if CRZ gets working as intended, those things can come back.

CRZ, in other words, may be the very means by which Blizzard can reintroduce what it's otherwise been obliged to do away with in order to grow its business.

My eyeglasses may be rose-colored, but I like their fit. :)

Obviously ya'll need to take another look at the CRZ thread cuz we are not getting that sort of support. When we ask for replies ya'll either skirt the question or it's just crickets chirping.

A lot of people don't wanna be social or deal with large crowds yet our play style doesn't matter cuz we are getting CRZ shoved down our throats without any way to opt out and play the game we've enjoyed for years.

I chat with my guild and play with my wife...who incidentally I met on here....I have no desire to deal with others then ya'll throw a feature in my lap that causes my gameplay to do a 180. When I or people like me say something all we get is sarcastic answers from Ghostcrawler or nothing at all.

How about ya'll address the 800lbs gorilla in the room!!!

Just a side note: It is bad taste to answer a question like this when you have a novel written in the CRZ thread about the complete opposite side of this (mostly)....thanks for showing Blizzards cards just a little bit more in what ya'll favor....

Blizzard never designed "low population/high population" or set in place artificial ceilings for them. Ergo, any benefits you gain for specifically rolling on them is a blessing you are not guaranteed to retain because it can change every single day.

Crying because you lost something that was never yours to have is ridiculous.

i talk in guild chat and in dunegons/raids,i dont feel the need to talk when im questing.

09/13/2012 07:59 PMPosted by Nassin

When people were forced to be nicer, the game was infinitely more enjoyable.

When was this? It certainly wasn't in Vanilla, BC, or WotLK, because there were still plenty of trolls, griefers, and flat-out jerks running around on all levels of the game.

As many of the other posters have already said(which you and similarly-minded posters have conveniently ignored), the old WoW community was no friendlier than it is now, it's just quieter now.

Socializing starts with You. Only you can prevent anti-socialism.

Even little things like logging on your JC to cut a gem for some stranger in Trade, taking a lowbie on your two-seater mount to get his 1K FP, giving some extra mats for free to someone desperate, watching someone's pleas going up to 200g for one elemental earth and charging him 1g.

There are a lot of little things you can do to spread goodwill and kindness around your realm if you're not a greedy virtual-money grubbing heartless bastidge.

Play nicely together!!

And those little things you mention are part of why cross realm isn't a solution because you can't do most of those things cross realm. Those are the types of things that tend to start the lasting relatiionships. There's more to socializing that just saying "Hi" when someone on your friends list pops online.

Lots of people try to socialize in this game. I'll be on my bank alt posting auctions or sorting the odds and ends I've mailed from other toons. Someone will pipe up in trade "LFG random heroic" and you get a flood of "use DF noob". So many players are actually working counter to the social aspect instead of working with it that those who want to find it harder to make connections, assuming they don't end up discouraged completely.

For the purposes of top end game progression, whether PvP or PvE, socialization and communication are still mandatory. It's highly unlikely you're going to be able to get a random group of strangers together and get a realm first unless you're on a realm that is so low pop with progression so far behind other realms that the realm first is still out there waiting to be taken 4 months later.

But for other game content?

You can pug a group via trade, openraid, etc. and never talk to those players again.

You can queue for RDF and never see those players again.

You can queue for BGs and never see those players again.

You don't need a group to quest anymore because all the group quest content has been removed. I think there are only a couple of rares in Pandaria that aren't easily solo'd by any competent player.

You don't need to talk to other players to learn how to play your class better because that information is all googled.

You can set up multiple alts to cover all the professions so you don't have to ask another player to cut a gem, do an enchant, etc. for you.

There's really very little in the game you can't do without ever having to say a word to another player.

If you were to remove to remove all the other players except one from a realm and replace them with NPCs, that player would probably notice - and then not care after that first minute as long as when their BG or dungoen queue popped, there were enough in the group to finish the activity. Just random fill the AH with items like the BMAH will have items randomly added by the system.

This easily could be a single player game and most players would be just as happy because they no longer have any incentive to step out and socialize on a regular basis with others outside of raid and PvP progression.

09/13/2012 08:25 PMPosted by Dabishop

But CFZ isn't designed to fix server population, it's meant to fix zone population as a result of no one venturing out into the world.

Stipulated. I understand this and wasn't arguing for CRZ as a means to fix realm population, but as a means for people who didn't want to leave their essentially mature (mostly 85-lvl) servers - where they still have their guilds and friends - to be able to enjoy some mid-zone action without feeling like they're playing a solo game.

The thing is, the reason people don't go out into the world is because Blizzard has constantly removed reasons to do so. Group quests - gone. World bosses - gone*. Finding dungeon entrances so you can queue - gone. Questing streamlined down to a "cattle in a chute" level. Add to this LFR and LFG, and it's a constant queue-fest, where the only gameplay reason to be out in the world are is levelling so you can hit max level and queue with everyone else. In a city. I mean, geez, you can even queue for holiday bosses now. No need to bother with that pesky "getting out into the world" thing for even that. It's ridiculous.

Well, look, I'm a Cata guy so all of my information about the good ol' days comes through reading posts on these forums and the threads over at Wowhead regarding classic instances (which I'm really getting into). Near as I can tell pretty much every "cattle chute" change was met more with relief than disappointment. but I wasn't there; I'm just reporting what I've been reading the last few days.

In the context of your argument I'd like to extend my own to suggest that if CRZ can get its bugs worked out that will make it easier for leveling players - especially those of us who like to linger and take our time and really get into the zones rather than rush through them like a can of soda - to hook up with like-minded players, because my experience is that there just aren't enough of us leveling junkies around on any one server to make group quests and world bosses viable. But if CRZ gets working as intended, those things can come back.

CRZ, in other words, may be the very means by which Blizzard can reintroduce what it's otherwise been obliged to do away with in order to grow its business.

My eyeglasses may be rose-colored, but I like their fit. :)

But there won't BE more people out in the world. Like I said, CFZ isn't going to get more people out there, it's just going to connect the ones that are.

In order to get people out there again, they need to actually remove the reasons people DON'T leave the cities. And that's something they won't do. CFZ isn't going to fix a thing.

Blizzard never designed "low population/high population" or set in place artificial ceilings for them. Ergo, any benefits you gain for specifically rolling on them is a blessing you are not guaranteed to retain because it can change every single day.

Crying because you lost something that was never yours to have is ridiculous.

Your statement is laughable.

I can't be upset because I can't play the game the way I've enjoyed it for the past several years? Pfft...ok....lol

Seems all the arguments lately are blizz didn't design something this way or that....ok....why are we hearing all the 6 years later all the sudden? Obviously if it was that important it would have never gotten to the way it is....but it has and I like the way it is and I plan to voice my opinion no matter what ridiculous people such as yourself think.

Fun Fact: you don't have this kind of threads on other mmo's

When was this? It certainly wasn't in Vanilla, BC, or WotLK, because there were still plenty of trolls, griefers, and flat-out jerks running around on all levels of the game.

As many of the other posters have already said(which you and similarly-minded posters have conveniently ignored), the old WoW community was no friendlier than it is now, just quieter.

You didn't play them.

09/13/2012 08:38 PMPosted by Dewan

I can see why players dont socialize anymore in this game though....I had played GW2 for the past few weeks and decided to hop into WoW for a bit having not played for nearly a year....I ask a simple question about some of the changes ingame, and you get nothing but flamed or told learn to read and called idiot by several little "kids".

That's why i like GW community more for the moment, the community there is very friendly and helpful (in my experience) you ask a question on the channel and you get 2-3 responses of other players trying to help you, if you ask those things here you get flamed to death.

I recently did RaF with my girlfriend and I realized how less social WoW is now. I realized this when she kept telling me how boring it was when she was on because she didn't know anyone. Back when I started playing, there was no cross-realm and you had to ask trade chat to join groups to do dungeons, which you actually had to communicate in. You needed to join a good active guild to survive well. My point is you had to be social and make friends to truly play the game. It's difficult to find social groups besides guilds.

To Blizzard: Do you intend on bringing any of this some what mandatory socialization back to the game?

What you just said, is articulate, it is intelligent, and it is logical. There's not a thing wrong with what you just said, and god bless you for claiming that right.

09/13/2012 08:33 PMPosted by Zarhym

I'll just have more choices on any given night of queuing for something, or joining friends/guild mates to tackle content that requires more of a coordinated strategy.

Which is ultimately why CRZ will be a good thing. Anything that makes it easier for like-minded players to get together is a good thing. Not every guild - I suppose very few guilds, actually, though I can't base that on any numbers I know about - where was I?

Oh, yeah: not every guild always has enough players active at any given time to make coordinated events possible, even if that event is just a quicky run for some Valor points. I like small guilds, but there is a price I definitely pay for being in one when I'm in a mood for this or that group-based activity.

it's up to us to be social, can't force it. if so it just gets strange. next time you're sitting around doing nothing in your city why not say hello to someone, you never know what might come of it.