Rets and RBGs

90 Human Paladin
0
BUT I think MoP can be a different story. Most of my rated experience comes from arena, but RBG teams are basically three 3v3 teams + 1. Thanks to some of the MoP paladin changes, ret has a lot more comp options than previously. For example, if ret compliments a caster combo very well (maybe warlock/mage?), there's a good chance you'll see one in RBGs.

Overall it's too early to tell, but I think ret definitely has more RBG viability than we did in Cata.


Our role as off-healers aren't well-received in RBG's because, like you said, the team size is much larger. Why bring someone who is mediocre in two aspects when you can bring multiple people proficient in one aspect?

Obviously hybrid healing has a place in 3's, but with 10 people per side the ideal comps will have classes that do one thing outstandingly, such as a Death Knights grip or Rogue's smoke bomb.

What we have going for us that isn't negated by simply bringing a Holy Paladin is our burst window via Holy Avenger or Sanctified Wrath, coupled with our 90 talents. However, we're still fairly prone to CC, so I'd imagine any good group would see our wings pop up and start chaining CC.

Again, this is pure speculation, but based on our new talents, I don't see us replacing any other melee DPS unless our consistent damage is buffed, and I don't see that happening.
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100 Human Paladin
4225
09/14/2012 01:17 PMPosted by Jackdakatsuj
Total BS. Rets dont even get the chance to prove themselves because of the limitations of the spec and the fact that other classes do what we do better.

The ultimate proof is when was the last time you saw anyone ask for a RET for RBGs in trade chat? NEVER.


You'd have us at that...if it weren't for the fact that RBGs for the lvl 90 tier haven't started yet.

It's a whole new expansion. Time to see what you can do.
Do yourself a favor and go to trade chat and ask the question if RBG leaders will be asking for RETs. After all the laughing has subsided and the insults are done with you will have your answer.
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85 Human Paladin
11575


You'd have us at that...if it weren't for the fact that RBGs for the lvl 90 tier haven't started yet.

It's a whole new expansion. Time to see what you can do.
Do yourself a favor and go to trade chat and ask the question if RBG leaders will be asking for RETs. After all the laughing has subsided and the insults are done with you will have your answer.


What does it matter what they say now? This'll always be my favorite example: before Cata launched, conversations broke out in Trade and the forums about RBGs, and (bad) rogues absolutely groaned about how useless they'd be because "all they got" was Smoke Bomb. Fast forward to today.

My point? It's too early to tell - we've got our strong points, but we've got our flaws, too. But if you want to remain emo about the fate of the Paladins, then by all means, go for it. But I ask that you keep those reservations until at least when we start hitting 90, so that you can have all the justification for pissing and moaning if you want.
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100 Human Paladin
4225

Do yourself a favor and go to trade chat and ask the question if RBG leaders will be asking for RETs. After all the laughing has subsided and the insults are done with you will have your answer.


What does it matter what they say now? This'll always be my favorite example: before Cata launched, conversations broke out in Trade and the forums about RBGs, and (bad) rogues absolutely groaned about how useless they'd be because "all they got" was Smoke Bomb. Fast forward to today.

My point? It's too early to tell - we've got our strong points, but we've got our flaws, too. But if you want to remain emo about the fate of the Paladins, then by all means, go for it. But I ask that you keep those reservations until at least when we start hitting 90, so that you can have all the justification for pissing and moaning if you want.
Our skillsets are set. Nothing new will be introduced and we have nothing that will change the minds of the people that count (organizers of the RBGs) to change their minds. Minute damage and duration changes really mean nothing

It's funny that there is a subset of posters faced with the reality of RET keep saying wait till 90 or Blizz will make an adjustment. But they are always saying it and nothing has changed substantially.

Until Rets ascend to the level Blizz values Mages then we will not be wanted in RBGs
Edited by Agincourt on 9/14/2012 2:41 PM PDT
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1 Orc Rogue
0
At level 90 Ret Pallys are dishing more damage than every other melee class in PvP.
Edited by Maiwaifu on 9/14/2012 2:47 PM PDT
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85 Human Paladin
11575
09/14/2012 02:40 PMPosted by Agincourt
Nothing new will be introduced


Blinding Light and our Level 90 tier say hi.

09/14/2012 02:40 PMPosted by Agincourt
organizers of the RBGs


And what's stopping you from organizing your own?
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
19815
09/14/2012 02:47 PMPosted by Maiwaifu
At level 90 Ret Pallys are dishing more damage than every other melee class in PvP.


Dragon roar. :|
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1 Orc Rogue
0
09/14/2012 02:51 PMPosted by Cayse
At level 90 Ret Pallys are dishing more damage than every other melee class in PvP.


Dragon roar. :|


Isn't much better than our mass blind.
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100 Human Paladin
15630
09/14/2012 02:40 PMPosted by Agincourt
It's funny that there is a subset of posters faced with the reality of RET keep saying wait till 90 or Blizz will make an adjustment. But they are always saying it and nothing has changed substantially.


Yes we're clearly terrrible.

You play your Paladin still why?
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100 Draenei Paladin
17045
09/14/2012 02:40 PMPosted by Agincourt
It's funny that there is a subset of posters faced with the reality of RET


The reality of Retribution is no where near as bleak as you paint it, I mean really reading your posts is like reading a drama these days.

The Good Ret's will always get by. We'll adjust and find ways to excel within whatever limits are placed upon us.

If you're just going to bemoan the spec constantly then move on already.
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100 Human Paladin
8745
The other big factor is how ret is going to scale at 90... No one knows!!! The other HUGE factor in RBGs next season is going to be locks...there a must have in MOP RBGs... Their group portal spell is a game changer used right, considering a FC can use it while holding flag
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100 Human Paladin
4225
09/14/2012 02:48 PMPosted by Jackdakatsuj
Nothing new will be introduced


Blinding Light and our Level 90 tier say hi.

organizers of the RBGs


And what's stopping you from organizing your own?
Nothing new that isn't already known.

Organizing my own RBGs isnt the point. When the entire WOW community believes Ret is garbage for RBGs and takes away from the team it's tough to compete or be accepted.

It should speak volumes that RETs would have to organize their own RBG just to get into them.
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100 Human Paladin
4225
It's funny that there is a subset of posters faced with the reality of RET


The reality of Retribution is no where near as bleak as you paint it, I mean really reading your posts is like reading a drama these days.

The Good Ret's will always get by. We'll adjust and find ways to excel within whatever limits are placed upon us.

If you're just going to bemoan the spec constantly then move on already.
And the best Ret on my serve has to advertise and beg to get into RBGs. Maybe that tells you something

You want me to move on? Maybe that loser GC could do the right thing and make us competitive in RBGs
Edited by Agincourt on 9/14/2012 4:28 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
4920
Ret will be as good as you make it. My favorite part of PvP is annoying people, ever since playing on my shaman in vanilla, purging absolutely everything in sight.

At the moment, I enjoy standing back guarding healers and judging people to proc selfless healer while charging up WoG and throwing out hands with clemency. I may not contribute a whole lot, but who really does in random BGs. Plus I have fun watching others get frustrated with what I'm doing. Healers seem to like the body guards as well.
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100 Human Paladin
4225
Ret will be as good as you make it. My favorite part of PvP is annoying people, ever since playing on my shaman in vanilla, purging absolutely everything in sight.

At the moment, I enjoy standing back guarding healers and judging people to proc selfless healer while charging up WoG and throwing out hands with clemency. I may not contribute a whole lot, but who really does in random BGs. Plus I have fun watching others get frustrated with what I'm doing. Healers seem to like the body guards as well.
No one is talking about random BG. We are talking about Rated BGs
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90 Human Paladin
12145
09/14/2012 10:49 AMPosted by Paladinchaz
What a clown. Rets are not wanted in any RBG over 1800.


Agin, all you do is whine, maybe its not Rets in the plural sense that arent wanted in RBGS.

Arena or RBG's?

Because based on our new talents compared to that of the cookie-cutter melee classes (DK's and Rogues) I'd say we'll be left to fend for ourselves in non-traditional comps in RBG's.


Honestly, how can you automaticaly assume either way? PVP at 90 in the new season hasnt happened yet. And you cant base it off of 85 currently, PVP isnt balanced for 85 right now.

At least wait till 90 to complain right now.


You're an idiot.
Straight up.
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85 Human Paladin
11575


Agin, all you do is whine, maybe its not Rets in the plural sense that arent wanted in RBGS.



Honestly, how can you automaticaly assume either way? PVP at 90 in the new season hasnt happened yet. And you cant base it off of 85 currently, PVP isnt balanced for 85 right now.

At least wait till 90 to complain right now.


You're an idiot.
Straight up.


o_O Where'd this outpouring of hate come from all of a sudden?
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All this certainty, when we don't even know what the meta-game for RBGs is going to be like, what sort of comps will dominate, and what they will need. Ret wasn't wanted in RBGs not because it was bad, but because caster multi-DoTing ruled the high ratings, and most RBG leaders simply followed that 'common wisdom'.

If melee cleave is the new hotness, Ret will surely have a place, because it brings strong snaring, a ton of burst, and mobility to team-mates, and if your team is melee-heavy the HoFs from a holy pally or two won't be nearly enough, so bringing Rets as well becomes very attractive. Likewise, if pure direct damage casters are popular there might well be room for Rets, because they look to be a fairly good fit with them now - far more than in Cata.

Really, at this point it's 'who knows'. Also, realistically most of this concern about exact comps and specs is just so much BS for the majority of players, even those who play RBGs, because their ability to climb the ladder will have a lot more to do with player skill and the ability to work as a team.
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90 Human Paladin
0
...Likewise, if pure direct damage casters are popular there might well be room for Rets, because they look to be a fairly good fit with them now - far more than in Cata....


People keep saying this - can you explain to me why we fit so well with casters nowadays? No sarcasm, I don't see how we're an attractive option to casters now moreso than before.
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85 Night Elf Mage
6405
All this certainty, when we don't even know what the meta-game for RBGs is going to be like, what sort of comps will dominate, and what they will need. Ret wasn't wanted in RBGs not because it was bad, but because caster multi-DoTing ruled the high ratings, and most RBG leaders simply followed that 'common wisdom'.

If melee cleave is the new hotness, Ret will surely have a place, because it brings strong snaring, a ton of burst, and mobility to team-mates, and if your team is melee-heavy the HoFs from a holy pally or two won't be nearly enough, so bringing Rets as well becomes very attractive. Likewise, if pure direct damage casters are popular there might well be room for Rets, because they look to be a fairly good fit with them now - far more than in Cata.

Really, at this point it's 'who knows'. Also, realistically most of this concern about exact comps and specs is just so much BS for the majority of players, even those who play RBGs, because their ability to climb the ladder will have a lot more to do with player skill and the ability to work as a team.


I wouldn't expect mindsets to change too much, even though game dynamics have changed massively. Ret is quite good, but would you take it in an RBG? Probably not. Can get the synergy from other classes, can take a Holy Pally and free up a slot for a specialised DPS (not that ret isn't specialised, it just isn't overly special at competitive RBG play). I can see how if you wanted to run an unusual composition rich in hybrids (provided they actually know how to use off-heals, which are a loss in DPS, which in turn means you'd rather take a straight DPS and a healer) you might do quite well. You must also remember that Ret has very high personal mobility and dispel mechanics are quite changed, then again kek resto shaman with Windwalk totem and CoE - goes back to the "have straight DPS and healer instead" binary.

Is ret viable? Of course it is, the damage is pretty damned high, the mobility is high, the utility is high. Will people change their attitudes which are partially formed on fact? Probably not.
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