Why Bear/Guardian is no longer fun anymore

90 Night Elf Druid
13000
Ive tanked on my DK, my warrior, my paladin, and my druid. I agree with the OP, druids are not fun to tank on. I'm not entirely sure why... it feels very clunky. I just save up rage, to hit FR or SD... and watch my lasc, thrash and swipe cds.... It WORKS... i can tank, hold aggro, not die... but it's just very nerve wracking. The best equivalent feeling, is being stuck in stop and go traffic on a freeway.

Warriors and by far the most fun, to me. You just have so much you can do. Charging, leaping... like a master of the battlefield. Since the shield barrier is an absorb, rather than a heal like SD... i dont have anything stopping me from hitting it if my health is high. Everything flows, from one move to the next.

Dks and Paladins, play like they did in cata. A few abilities are altered, but basically, it's still the same.
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80 Gnome Priest
1590
Personally I like Bear's themselves even more. I love the spiky damage intake. I know my healers probably don't. But that is what Attached me to Bear tanking.
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90 Night Elf Druid
CFT
10670
Yeah, that's kind of why I gave 1 FFF/30 seconds, the duration of SA.
I also dislike having FFF in my rotation, but that's just my opinion.

Then you have to put something else in its place. I don't think many people would find Mangle - Lacerate - Lacerate - Lacerate fun by any stretch of the imagination.

Now if you also cut Thrash down to 6 seconds and made Lacerate bleeds do something cool, then we might be getting somewhere.

09/17/2012 11:35 AMPosted by Ahanss
they made that vengeance change in large part to make sure tank DPS mattered
No? It was primarily done to make sure tanks scaled relative to the content they were doing in terms of the ability to stay alive. DPS was just a side effect they can't really do anything about. I actually agree with everyone that DPS should primarily scale off of your gear, but with Vengeance affecting survivability there's nothing that can be done to fix that.
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90 Tauren Druid
13625
Yeah, scratch that. It was a side effect they liked, so it's something they're happy about, but you're right, it wasn't a main part of it.

And not liking FFF is just a cosmetic issue on my part. It just doesn't fit with the other abilities.
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90 Night Elf Druid
CFT
10670
09/17/2012 12:14 PMPosted by Ahanss
And not liking FFF is just a cosmetic issue on my part. It just doesn't fit with the other abilities.
I agree it doesn't really fit with being a Bear. No argument there.

It's just a matter of replacing it with something if you do take it out.
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1 Draenei Paladin
0
No? It was primarily done to make sure tanks scaled relative to the content they were doing in terms of the ability to stay alive. DPS was just a side effect they can't really do anything about. I actually agree with everyone that DPS should primarily scale off of your gear, but with Vengeance affecting survivability there's nothing that can be done to fix that.


Death Knights gain no survival benefit from Vengeance, so it's not like they went in with the idea of it working that way.
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90 Human Death Knight
17160
09/17/2012 02:44 PMPosted by Mnemonic
No? It was primarily done to make sure tanks scaled relative to the content they were doing in terms of the ability to stay alive. DPS was just a side effect they can't really do anything about. I actually agree with everyone that DPS should primarily scale off of your gear, but with Vengeance affecting survivability there's nothing that can be done to fix that.


Death Knights gain no survival benefit from Vengeance, so it's not like they went in with the idea of it working that way.


Technically, not true. Vengeance doesn't affect our AM. But it does affect our survival. For an extreme example.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lvdmF7hxpc

But lichborne Death Coils are affected too.
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90 Night Elf Druid
12785
09/17/2012 01:00 PMPosted by Arielle
And not liking FFF is just a cosmetic issue on my part. It just doesn't fit with the other abilities.
I agree it doesn't really fit with being a Bear. No argument there.

It's just a matter of replacing it with something if you do take it out.


Whaaa? No wai guise. Those are our LAZORS. All we need now is a pew pew emote!
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09/17/2012 02:44 PMPosted by Mnemonic
No? It was primarily done to make sure tanks scaled relative to the content they were doing in terms of the ability to stay alive. DPS was just a side effect they can't really do anything about. I actually agree with everyone that DPS should primarily scale off of your gear, but with Vengeance affecting survivability there's nothing that can be done to fix that.


Death Knights gain no survival benefit from Vengeance, so it's not like they went in with the idea of it working that way.


No, but death knights get to eliminate the middle-man, and have their DS heal be based on damage they took in the last 5 seconds.

So it really works out to be the same thing when you boil it down.
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90 Night Elf Druid
13785
09/17/2012 02:44 PMPosted by Mnemonic
Death Knights gain no survival benefit from Vengeance, so it's not like they went in with the idea of it working that way.


Except for... well... literally the rest of us that didn't have a button that worked directly off the damage we just took recently to fuel a static absorb.

Vengeance was adapted after a few failed attempts and trials to make things like SD and SB scale without being OP or UP as content changed relative to our more readily scaled skills of bonus Dodge/Block. The Vengeance we have now evolved out of previously having a quadratic formula that scaled FR/SB.

Death Knights already had a mechanic, the rest of us needed one.
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86 Pandaren Warrior
4795
Bear was always my favorite tank,and I doubt that will change with mop.

BTW @Fasc: Nice efiing transmog! Best I've seen on a druid.
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90 Worgen Druid
9750
09/17/2012 10:12 AMPosted by Sparklefever
Anyone else bothered by the fact they increased the cd on skull bash?
Yeah, it's very unfair that Druids have to have a 15s interrupt that has a secondary effect that no other melee interrupt has!

It's such bs that it's such a longer cooldown than every other melee int- oh, wait.


Says the Pally with AS that silences 3 targets while inflicting significant damage, a silence and stun. You're the last class that should be giving me a hard time about mentioning that our cd on skull bash has gone up. Is that a pvp beef?
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90 Night Elf Druid
17755
Says the Pally with AS that silences 3 targets while inflicting significant damage, a silence and stun. You're the last class that should be giving me a hard time about mentioning that our cd on skull bash has gone up. Is that a pvp beef?


I think you missed a sarcasm there if you think he actually ahs a PvP beef as opposed to pointing out that whining about every interrupt being normalised is silly.
Edited by Slashlove on 9/17/2012 7:48 PM PDT
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85 Troll Druid
0
Ive tanked on my DK, my warrior, my paladin, and my druid. I agree with the OP, druids are not fun to tank on. I'm not entirely sure why... it feels very clunky. I just save up rage, to hit FR or SD... and watch my lasc, thrash and swipe cds.... It WORKS... i can tank, hold aggro, not die... but it's just very nerve wracking. The best equivalent feeling, is being stuck in stop and go traffic on a freeway.

Warriors and by far the most fun, to me. You just have so much you can do. Charging, leaping... like a master of the battlefield. Since the shield barrier is an absorb, rather than a heal like SD... i dont have anything stopping me from hitting it if my health is high. Everything flows, from one move to the next.

Dks and Paladins, play like they did in cata. A few abilities are altered, but basically, it's still the same.


This, what this person said, has a lot to do with what I am feeling as well. I suppose I could have just said so in my very first post, but this one really hits the nail on the head for me, thank you.
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Ive tanked on my DK, my warrior, my paladin, and my druid. I agree with the OP, druids are not fun to tank on. I'm not entirely sure why... it feels very clunky. I just save up rage, to hit FR or SD... and watch my lasc, thrash and swipe cds.... It WORKS... i can tank, hold aggro, not die... but it's just very nerve wracking. The best equivalent feeling, is being stuck in stop and go traffic on a freeway.

Warriors and by far the most fun, to me. You just have so much you can do. Charging, leaping... like a master of the battlefield. Since the shield barrier is an absorb, rather than a heal like SD... i dont have anything stopping me from hitting it if my health is high. Everything flows, from one move to the next.

Dks and Paladins, play like they did in cata. A few abilities are altered, but basically, it's still the same.


This, what this person said, has a lot to do with what I am feeling as well. I suppose I could have just said so in my very first post, but this one really hits the nail on the head for me, thank you.


agreed

harruuummppff
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90 Night Elf Druid
10845
I don't enjoy my bear tank, but I find it effective. I took bear hug and maul off my bar and I rotate in FFF. I have no problems tanking, its just that its not fun.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
18325
09/17/2012 11:48 AMPosted by Nimuè
Dks and Paladins, play like they did in cata. A few abilities are altered, but basically, it's still the same.


Except for how little damage I do now compared to how much I did pre-patch.
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Bears have become visually boring to play.

It used to be that I would hit Dem Roar and Maul routinely. Maul looks cool because of the berzerk Matrixy visual. Dem Roar both looks and sounds cool, so I would hit it more often than was really needed just for the cool factor. Loved rearing back on my hind legs and roaring.

Now Dem Roar is gone, and Maul is no longer practical to use under current rage mechanics.

So bear just looks and sounds boring to play.
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90 Troll Druid
7385
Waiting on cooldowns? You aren't playing correctly. We use Every. Single. GCD.

Mangle>Lacerate>Thrash or FFF based on which debuff you need to refresh>Lacerate>Mangle>Repeat.

The only thing I find disatisfactory about the new playstyle is that Maul is unusable in non-trivial content and that the only reason to upkeep the Thrash or Lacerate Bleed is for TPS. It would be nice if it helped our mitigation some.
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Now if you also cut Thrash down to 6 seconds and made Lacerate bleeds do something cool, then we might be getting somewhere.

What do you have in mind for Lacerate bleeds?
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