Having a bad go

90 Human Rogue
5665
In other words yes I BG with people all the time. But I don't set up events because it feels pointless atm. In the future, sure. But right now with arenas and other rated content closed, I don't see much to schedule.
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14 Troll Priest
110
Suddenly,

I refrained from really answering before because as my dear forum friend Wrathbow (can I call you friend?) pointed out- at the time there was little posted about WHAT you wanted your guild to be.

I'll be honest, I give a lot of credit to Subrosian for making you think, if you've never read any of Subrosian's posts I can see how you'd get your feathers more ruffled- heck, I've read lot of them and still sometimes do. But what I'm getting at is that there are some good points in there.

You mention wanting to be a pvp guild- what's your guild finder ad look like? What does your recruitment macro look like?

Also, until you DO get your guild built up with members you may HAVE to accept some level 1's or 10's or new dk's. THEY may be the KEY to getting started- if they are actively leveling a new toon, they will contribute to your guild via quests. They may not stick around later for the pvp- but then again, if you teach them (politely) on their way up, they may.

As for others saying to "just join them" maybe they could phrase it better, but I see it like it could be "Hey, we think you're pretty good, what about coming here and helping build what you want to do in our guild- we'll make you PVP officer, etc" If they thought you were bad, mean, or otherwise, they probably wouldn't WANT you in their guild.

On that note, do you have an 85 (or 70, or whatever level) alt you COULD toss in another guild to see what happens? Maybe you'll find some happiness you didn't think you would. Maybe not, but it could be worth a shot.

I could go on for awhile, but I need more coffee.
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90 Human Rogue
5665
I tend to ignore guild finder because I assume most other players do. It is cluttered, ugly and loaded with ads for level 1 guilds with 1-4 members that don't seem active. I don't put a lot of stock in that system.

And I use different recruiting macros, but they are irrelevant as well because the number of trolls in trade make it unbearable to deal with. As it is, I do note that all are welcome. But there are no lowbies joining either. I use the guild add on, but NEVER to spam invites, only to find players without guilds, to whisper and open dialogue about the idea of joining. I have had great conversations with people that go no further than "I'll keep you in mind" which frankly, even that is good enough for me.

I have 2 other 85s I transferred as well, but one is my prot pally, which wouldn't help in a pvp guild. I have my resto druid, but I'm not geared and despise being a focus target. (I have nothing but respect for pvp healers. All it makes me want to do is rage quit when I try it lol)
So I have no problem doing that, but all that would give me is the social aspect. And frankly, I already know how these guilds are socially, seeing as I already hang out with these people. So I dunno...
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12810
What made you pick the server you moved to, apart from statistical numbers? Did you already have contacts with people on the server prior to moving?

If not, you're starting from scratch, just like any lvl 1 guild. Try and bear in mind, guilds at max level that have resided on the server from their start already have a reputation, and the guild tag is recongnized as people run by people bearing the tag for months.

People running past you and just seeing a new name aren't going to armory, they're just going to see a single person with no recognized tag.

The past is the past - though I'd suggest definitely making yourself a list of ideas to deal with people before they become problem children, so the situation causing the move doesn't happen again.

In this time here and now, you need A Name.

So get it out there. Organize some pug FTA runs. Talk to some of the people you've met and see if you and one or two interested guildies can run RBGs with them Do some skirmish arenas with people you meet on those FTA runs.

If you do ANY PvE, see if there's interest in older content mount runs. Ulduar, ICC - people need things to do while they're waiting for the expansion. Offer them some of those things to do. Hell, man - with cross server, see about getting some buddies with Horde toons to get their side together and skirmish over Halaa for old time's sake.

Some of those puggers could develop into your new guildies.

Let people walk away remembering they had a blast that they haven't had in a while - you'll start getting recruits.
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90 Human Rogue
5665
What made you pick the server you moved to, apart from statistical numbers? Did you already have contacts with people on the server prior to moving?


No, I chose BH because I heard about the 120 man org raid that crashed the server, and many other world pvp events I heard about that made me think that the PvP community of the server was one that was worth being a part of.

09/17/2012 11:01 AMPosted by Shankari
The past is the past - though I'd suggest definitely making yourself a list of ideas to deal with people before they become problem children, so the situation causing the move doesn't happen again.


The people had nothing to do with the move. I have to keep reiterating that. But I sure as hell don't enjoy people thinking that I run from things. I was running TO something different. I acquired the guild at level 15 for the purpose of leveling up the guild and making something that matters. I would say getting 3 levels to the guild is an accomplishment in itself. But I'm out for more, I just need the base of people willing to accomplish more as well.

09/17/2012 11:01 AMPosted by Shankari
Some of those puggers could develop into your new guildies


I just don't seem to think these puggers will become my new guildies. As I've said, I've made friends with them, I have enjoyed my time with them, and they continuously want me to leave my goals and join them in theirs. I am more interested in my goals, not the goals of others. I want to meet the goals of my guild. If it is considered a "vanity project" to want to complete the goals I've set out, so be it. But that is what I want to do. Have a killer rated RBG team, have guild groups run solid arena teams, and participate in some epic world PVP.
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88 Blood Elf Mage
8500
You are way to negative....
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12810
09/17/2012 11:35 AMPosted by Suddénly
No, I chose BH because I heard about the 120 man org raid that crashed the server, and many other world pvp events I heard about that made me think that the PvP community of the server was one that was worth being a part of.


In other words, you relied on things you'd heard/read, not experienced directly.

09/17/2012 11:35 AMPosted by Suddénly
I just don't seem to think these puggers will become my new guildies. As I've said, I've made friends with them, I have enjoyed my time with them, and they continuously want me to leave my goals and join them in theirs.


You've made friends with a limited number of people. How many events have you organized, not as a way to say "this is what my guild will be doing" but as a way to MEET people who are interested in PvP?

If you don't make yourself AND your guild name known for something, you don't stand out as offering anything plenty of others aren't as well. It's up to you how much you want to ask around about interest in some PvP activities to gain interest and a rep, and how much you're willing to give in time and effort to let potential guildies meet you.
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90 Draenei Shaman
10150
09/17/2012 11:35 AMPosted by Suddénly
. I am more interested in my goals, not the goals of others.


So, why should others be interested in your goals? This is a serious question, and an honest and serious answer will help you figure out how to recruit.
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90 Human Rogue
5665
09/17/2012 12:37 PMPosted by Shankari
In other words, you relied on things you'd heard/read, not experienced directly.


No, no. The wpvp here is amazing. I transferred my druid over here before the guild with my rogue. I had a blast those 2 weeks before I brought the guild over. In fact, I had fun playing wow for the first time in 5 months during those 2 weeks. I brought the guild over, and now I just feel bored again, due to no progress going on.

Posted by Suddénly
. I am more interested in my goals, not the goals of others.

So, why should others be interested in your goals? This is a serious question, and an honest and serious answer will help you figure out how to recruit.


You took what I wrote out of context. I want my guild to have a top RBG team. So people who want to be on a top RBG team should want to be a part of this. In other words, a new guild just popped up that resulted from a merger of two other pvp guilds on the server. But why should I care about what Gurubashi Bobsled Team is doing? That's not my guild. I care about what my guild is doing. And I don't mean that as a GM, i mean that as a general player. When I'm in a guild, I don't really give a damn about any other guild's progress or what they're doing. I work to advance mine. And I say that, yet again, as just the average player, not just a GM, but as a member of a guild. I care about the advancement of the guild, and how to make the guild better than others.

In other words, the people who should be interested in my goals are people who have THE EXACT SAME GOALS. it's a very simple concept. The question is how to get those people to join. All I've gotten in this thread so far is "you're wrong about this, your views on this suck, everything you do is bad" and the only constructive thing I've seen is "Make groups with people" Which is fine and dandy, but again, all that's done is get me guild invites to other guilds. Which is clearly not what I want.

So again, the whole point is how can I get people? I'm friendly as hell, I even sat in front of the king on my druid the other day and just gave away glyphs to anyone who came up to me. I barked it in trade for 20 mins. These are the kinds of goodwill things I do. I don't sit around and wait for things to happen. I try and get my name out there by doing things for people and helping them. I didn't even use it as a guild recruiting ploy, it was more of a "i just feel like giving away all my stuff" type of moment. But there was no interest in a guild. It was just an interest in free things. So why bother? The goodwill route didn't work for anything either. I'm just at a loss. I have no more gimmicky ideas to say "look at me". I don't even know what the point of writing all this is anymore. I was hoping that I would get some sort of constructive step by step, but I don't even know how to filter all this information.

I ended up buying that guild leader's book, just to see if it has anything constructive. But I haven't gotten very far. But the point is, I'm trying to take this serious, but no one is taking me seriously : / I don't know what to do

TL;DR: Aaaaaughibbrgubugbugrguburgle!
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12810
09/17/2012 02:12 PMPosted by Suddénly
No, no. The wpvp here is amazing. I transferred my druid over here before the guild with my rogue. I had a blast those 2 weeks before I brought the guild over. In fact, I had fun playing wow for the first time in 5 months during those 2 weeks. I brought the guild over, and now I just feel bored again, due to no progress going on.


Ok, that wasn't what I'd gotten from what you'd said.

Also - you're facing an uphill battle recruiting per se atm.

Maybe continue to do your pvp, and refine some potential wording on how you want your "mission statement" and guild description to sound? And feel free to post up your prospective guild ads - some people have good suggestions on minor edits that change tone, or catch interest.

Even those friends that were trying to recruit you - ask them for honest opinions on "if you saw this in a guild ad, would you skip right by it, or find it interesting enough to look further?"

At least if you do this - come MoP launch when people are actively looking for guilds to join as they come back to find the guild they were in died, or they were kicked due to inactivity or taking a break - you'll have a well written and organized plan - which will stand out from the pack.
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90 Human Rogue
5665
Well it's hard to come up with any guild advert, as everything gets trolled on. So I don't really put up any recruiting message anymore. I figure that going to the people, making groups, running things, this is the only way. I'd figured that before. But it's such a slow, painful process. I was hoping there was some trick to accelerating it so people stop leaving because "There's no one to play with."
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90 Draenei Shaman
10150
I did not intend to put you (further) on the defensive. I intended to point out that, for people to want to join your guild, they will want you to have an interest in their goals. It's also true that your goals and theirs need to align.
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90 Human Rogue
5665
Well if our goals are the same, clearly I have an interest in their goals. I don't understand what the point is. Clearly coming to this thread did not help me figure out how to fix my issue. Never mind.
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90 Human Rogue
5665
I'm clearly not trying to be "on the defensive" but having looked back on the thread, I have seen my words twisted or taken out of context 4 times already. I figured being "on the defensive" would be reasonable after something like that.
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90 Human Rogue
5665
I guess the whole point is right now I'm not gearing towards any members. I'm geared towards trying to find people who want to build up a guild. I'm looking to find officers and people who are willing to aggressively recruit (It's not my strong suit). These are the people I need right now. I don't need to fill out the body, I'm trying to build the skeleton first.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
4490
I built up my raiding guild by pugging early on we had to pug a lot,, but as things progressed, the pugs found raiding with us fun and no pressure, and we allowed alts, as long as the mix was not so unfavorable as to cause the raid to fail ie all melee DPS.

We mixed it up and ran old content. We ran heroics for those who hated to use LFG or who needed a specific peice of gear and were having a hard time winning it.

We did mount runs We allowed leveling alts of those who had raiding mains in the guild.

Eventually we even allowed those who were not raiding but leveling a toon to come in as long as they understood our main focus was raiding.

We were successfull because we were different and offered sosmething many guilds did not
The real trick is to find what is lacking on your server and to fill it.
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70 Draenei Paladin
12385
Suddenly, I realize you came here asking for advice on your guild recruitment situation, but I've actually answered this dilemma in another thread, which Trollyheals has already linked to. That being said, there were some comments you made I'd like to ask more about and look at deeper, because I'm seeing a bigger issue at hand here that perhaps you might want to consider.

The two comments you've said thus far that stuck out to me the most were:

09/16/2012 01:38 PMPosted by Suddénly
I am not the best of players, but I know I'm a good, fair person, and would make a good leader.


09/16/2012 06:30 PMPosted by Suddénly
Being a GM is all I care about. The game is entirely boring otherwise.


These had me wondering.. why does he want to be a Guild Leader so badly? Because honestly, being 'a nice guy' doesn't necessarily mean you're going to be a good leader, it just means you're a good person.

So I was wondering and then you said this...

09/16/2012 06:30 PMPosted by Suddénly
My name needs to be in the GM spot because I got sick of being screwed over in guilds in the past.


...And it started to make sense. You have trust issues. The primary ingredient in any relation ship is what? Trust. Lack of genuine trust permeates around an individual and can saturate their modes of communication, and eventually leads to a lonely hopelessness inside.

Your words here resonate such a mood. Sure you're here asking for help, but the way you are handling yourself, while respectful and mature mind you, you do come off with a defeated or hopeless vibe. Yes you've been getting a lot of flack for 2 weeks, but that's a relatively short duration, and being so early in this stage a person would normally filled with rage.

I'm not seeing rage. I'm seeing despondency.

You've been hurt, probably many times, and so you wish to protect others from such feelings - which is a noble aspiration - but the problem is, and why I feel it is so important to bring this to your attention is... you're not protecting yourself from them. You're hiding away instead.

That's not a good way to start a guild. I myself went thru my fair share of bad guild experiences, and it got so bad at one point I myself had similar designs to build my own guild, and eventually I did while I felt this way. Doomed before it started, it eventually failed and I disbanded it entirely, because I was never comfortable with the person I had to be. Which made sense because I wasn't comfortable with myself. It was much later when I went through some very trying experiences that bounced me all around, that I finally found my center. Then I started building something new, and for the right reasons, and I've been comfortable with my decisions and the role ever since. This has lead to great success in my guild and raid leading.

So based off my personal experience, this is what I bring to your attention. I feel you need to find your center again, to learn to trust and see the good in others, and how to deal with the bad and not let it pull you so far down when it does come, and it always does come, but instead learn to stand strong and be a fine example that others will follow you and gravitate towards the strength you now permeate.... instead of the sorrow.
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14 Troll Priest
110
I'll also add RE:Guild Finder... I have a HUGE dislike for it. I agree, it's cluttered, it's hard to navigate, it's just a PITA and needs work... I don't see it coming soon, so I do try to use it how it is.

That being said- I've picked up quite a few people from it for various reasons. New people, old players coming back, people that actively sought us out- Have all found us in the GF.

I highly suggest you put some info about your guild in your GF info, and what you want to be. As it stands, you may be sitting there with an empty GF spot (I'm only assuming that's why I see a lot of empty info in the GF in places, that you get an auto put in and if you don't add info, it's just blank.)

How can it hurt to have info about the guild out there? At least that way it can be a POSITIVE piece of information about your guild that YOU write and 98% (made up number- but I'd even venture to say 100% unless you've really upset someone) of "trolls" will never bother reading or commenting on whatever your GF info says.
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90 Human Rogue
5665
I somewhat agree with Deathpony, but I guess I spent time thinking back, and the only time I truly LOVED this game, like, I would look forward to every logon every day, was when I was a GM of a leveling guild on Shattered Halls about 5 years ago now. Having an awesome guild was the goal I cherished most. We had no gladiators, no epic endgame raiders, nothing of note. We did the original ZG and Onyxia in 09. It was nothing special. But it was fun. And the people I played with had fun playing with me and vice versa. Now I want to be a GM again, because I miss that feeling. Granted, by trying to lead a PvP guild, it is more focused than what I originally led, but the same reasons are in place. I just want to have fun with a group of friends. The same way it used to be. Otherwise, yes, this game is old, boring, stale, and monotonous. It's the people I play for, and without them, I'm better of playing nothing.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
4490
Suddenly I wonder if your doing what we all do sometimes, looking at the past through rose colored glasses.. seeing all the fun times and happiness and forgetting all that was wrong or bad about the old times. Just a thought.

If your looking to find happiness outside of yourself, I think your going to be disappointed.

Maybe the real problem as to why you can not seem to get your guild going again is the very fact you find this game Stale boring and old.

The guild takes it's ques from the guild leader, if your down and bored and despondent, moral in the guild will plumment and no one wants to be in a guild with poor morale.

It was one of the things I had to be carefull with .. even if my Morale was in the gutter I could never ever voice that to the guild. What they saw and got was someone who loved the game all the time, was enthusiastic about raiding and always looked at the good side... even if that was far from how I really felt.

Maybe you need a break from the game. Come back when you are refreshed and can look at things differently. Maybe this game is just past the point of ever being new and interesting for you. The game changes , you have changed... maybe it is time to move on?

Your the only one who knows the answers to those questions. I wish you luck. I would offer to come and help, but to be honest with you I am a much better raider than I am a PVPer.. I try, but PVP often leaves me pulling my hair out :P
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