Old Gods and the Eastern Kingdoms

92 Human Warlock
9045
Okay, so first I was mad that a dead Old God in Pandaria meant the star theory couldn't be right, and then I realized the more obvious answer:

Kalimdor: C'Thun
Northrend: Yogg-Saron
The Maelstrom: N'Zoth
Pandaria: Y'Sharrj
Eastern Kingdoms: ????

So that's, going by this thing you humans call "logic," where our last guy is. The question is... What's his deal? Let's look at what my man Kil'ruk the Wind-Reaver has to say on Old Gods. More specifically, their armies.

Before your history began, our empire was vast. We shared this world with our sister kingdoms, Ahn'Qiraj and Azjol-Nerub.


So that's AQ in the west, AN in the north, the Mantid in the south, the Naga in the seas (admittedly this one is a little weak but I don't know what else N'Zoth might control besides MAYBE the Faceless?), and...What is there in the east? Kil'ruk implies there were only three kingdoms in Old God times, so what was this guy (and to a lesser extent, N'Zoth) up to? I could invent some cracked-out theory about Zul'Gurub and Zul'Aman, or the dwarves, or the humans, or whatever, but I really got nothing.

If this isn't where the last Old God is, then why is there no titan complex/Old God prison on the Eastern Kingdoms? I can't think of ANYTHING Old Goddy in the eastern kingdoms (the place in Tirisfal being confirmed not to be an Old God, as I recall). No bug-people that we could blame on an Old God, no titan complex (except Uldaman, but that was pretty much nothing OR WAS IT DUN DUN DUNN), no anything.

What gives?
Edited by Ren on 9/20/2012 3:27 AM PDT
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88 Blood Elf Paladin
7585
Maw of Iso'Rath. He's still a hive though. Not an cerebrate or overmind yet.
Edited by Desidarius on 9/20/2012 4:10 AM PDT
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90 Tauren Hunter
5415
09/20/2012 03:23 AMPosted by Ren
(except Uldaman, but that was pretty much nothing OR WAS IT DUN DUN DUNN)


Uldaman was invented to show where the dwarves come from, and linking them to the titans. It's unlikely that it's an Titan Prison, as Brann or someone would've figured it out by now surely, they realised that Ulduar was a prison rather quickly.
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92 Human Warlock
9045
That was kind of my point. Uldaman's the only Titan facility in the EK, and it's nothing. The only signs of Old God influence are Iso'Rath, which is just the one guy, big as he may be. Northrend had two of them minimum, for example. Shouldn't we see more of that?
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09/20/2012 03:23 AMPosted by Ren
Kil'ruk implies there were only three kingdoms in Old God times, so what was this guy (and to a lesser extent, N'Zoth) up to?
Well three Kingdoms of the Aqir Empire.

It's strange to note that two of the gods of that empire were mentioned by name as waging eternal war against N'Zoth but not eachother...

So let's try to logic puzzle though this whole thing, let's say the Aqir Old Gods were one faction and N'zoth and his wacky Elemental pals and legions of faceless was another.

But let us be speaking of the Eastern Kingdoms now. What Elder race of that geographical region held the greatest empire and seemed likely to have been caught up in this eternal warfare?

What race other than N'zoth's forces could stand to wage war against the Aqir stretching over millennia?

One simple hint.

Dey be speakin' in da jamaican accent, mon. Don' it be seemin' odd dat such an Empire could be existin' when de Old Gods be freed unless dey be havin' a few of dere own?

So we may have had a set of Troll aligned Old Gods if you ask me.
Edited by Dusksworn on 9/20/2012 6:45 AM PDT
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93 Night Elf Priest
16870
Trolls aren't known for being kind toward their own gods... And Hakkar doesn't have an Old God feel to me.

So... What if the roles were switched around? What if the Trolls CONTROLLED their Old God? What if Hakkar was actually more powerful than the EK Old God with all of his Troll followers? Hakkar was more powerful the more bosses were alive back in ZG40, so back in the distant Troll Empire past, maybe he was so powerful he was stronger than an Old God?
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88 Blood Elf Paladin
7585
Were the ancients and loa on azeroth at the time old gods were doing there thing? or were they post titan?
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90 Dwarf Priest
15890
09/20/2012 04:53 AMPosted by Ren
That was kind of my point. Uldaman's the only Titan facility in the EK, and it's nothing. The only signs of Old God influence are Iso'Rath, which is just the one guy, big as he may be. Northrend had two of them minimum, for example. Shouldn't we see more of that?


well there issssss that titan ruins south of uldaman but as said earlier im sure it just another part of uldaman

theres more ruins in khaz modan, they seem titan built

i wouldnt be suprised if the black iron dwarves were brainwashed into digging up Ragnaros
Edited by Ragnivald on 9/20/2012 10:05 AM PDT
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Trolls aren't known for being kind toward their own gods... And Hakkar doesn't have an Old God feel to me.

So... What if the roles were switched around? What if the Trolls CONTROLLED their Old God? What if Hakkar was actually more powerful than the EK Old God with all of his Troll followers? Hakkar was more powerful the more bosses were alive back in ZG40, so back in the distant Troll Empire past, maybe he was so powerful he was stronger than an Old God?
I doubt that.

And Trolls are known for being perfectly loyal to their gods, their theft of their power is a very recent trend.

My point more was that they might have originally worshiped their own set of Old Gods, before the Titans came and imprisoned them, and then transitioned over to their now traditional Loa.
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26 Worgen Hunter
150
Trolls aren't known for being kind toward their own gods... And Hakkar doesn't have an Old God feel to me.

So... What if the roles were switched around? What if the Trolls CONTROLLED their Old God? What if Hakkar was actually more powerful than the EK Old God with all of his Troll followers? Hakkar was more powerful the more bosses were alive back in ZG40, so back in the distant Troll Empire past, maybe he was so powerful he was stronger than an Old God?


I think it's more likely that the Old Gods treatment of the trolls thousands of years ago is the reason they treat their current gods as they do.
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99 Troll Hunter
13620
09/20/2012 10:52 AMPosted by Dusksworn
And Trolls are known for being perfectly loyal to their gods, their theft of their power is a very recent trend.
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90 Tauren Death Knight
11170
My guess?

"The giant rook watches from the dead trees. Nothing breathes beneath his shadow."
-The Puzzle Box of Yogg-Saron

Karazhan. Or, more specifically, the underground mirror tower of Karazhan. The Old Gods corrupted Cho'gall, and Garona if Yogg-Saron's Brain is any indication, early during the First War. That's a far reach if there was no Old God in the general vicinity.

If you allow me run wild with this, it also could reconcile some earlier sources if there really is "One per continent". Five Old Gods total, four locked away underground with Y'Shaarj destroyed, and the Three working together during the War of the Ancients. The same Three responsible for visions in Yogg-Saron's Brain: Yogg-Saron responsible for stirring/influencing the Lich King, N'Zoth responsible for Deathwing, and the Deadwind Old God responsible for the assassination of King Llane through Garona. C'thun sat out because he only just recovered enough to launch the second War of the Shifting Sands.
Edited by Abal on 9/20/2012 2:03 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
11185
My guess?

"The giant rook watches from the dead trees. Nothing breathes beneath his shadow."
-The Puzzle Box of Yogg-Saron

Karazhan. Or, more specifically, the underground mirror tower of Karazhan. The Old Gods corrupted Cho'gall, and Garona if Yogg-Saron's Brain is any indication, early during the First War. That's a far reach if there was no Old God in the general vicinity.


No, no, NO!!! For the millionth time people the giant rook in the dread trees was Xavius (literally a tree) amidst the Emerald Nightmare. It fits quite well and is indisputably tied to N'Zoth by a quote from Blizzcon 2011.

Uldaman might have another wing if Blizzard gets really low on ideas, but I think they might just drop the fifth old god as many people (myself not included) were getting tired of their theme. I hope they have an old god in EK, but one under Hyjal / Ashenvale would be more epic I think.

The trolls don't worship old gods, and Hakkar isn't an old god; he's an ancient (Loa = Ancient, Ancient = Loa). Certain, small sects of trolls might've worshiped old gods, but no whole troll society did so. The Zandalar's recent shift from neutral neutral to neutral evil seems suspect to old god corruption.
Edited by Wildsharu on 9/20/2012 5:13 PM PDT
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99 Troll Hunter
13620
Well Hakkar is more than an ancient/loa, he's a God, up there with Elune and the Old Gods.
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90 Night Elf Druid
11185
09/20/2012 05:13 PMPosted by Pyronaptor
Well Hakkar is more than an ancient/loa, he's a God, up there with Elune and the Old Gods.


Ancients are Loa. Elune is a Naaru or other force of the light.
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10 Night Elf Hunter
60
09/20/2012 05:10 PMPosted by Wildsharu
I hope they have an old god in EK, but one under Hyjal / Ashenvale would be more epic I think.
How exactly would that be epic? (other than epic fail)

The Zandalar's recent shift from neutral neutral to neutral evil seems suspect to old god corruption.
right, or it could have to do with desperation brought on by their home being destroyed by the Cataclysm...

09/20/2012 05:17 PMPosted by Wildsharu
Well Hakkar is more than an ancient/loa, he's a God, up there with Elune and the Old Gods.


Ancients are Loa. Elune is a Naaru or other force of the light.
Rofl you are out of your mind, settle down and take a timeout.
Edited by Suraia on 9/20/2012 5:18 PM PDT
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99 Troll Hunter
13620
09/20/2012 05:17 PMPosted by Wildsharu
Ancients are Loa. Elune is a Naaru or other force of the light.

The Warcraft Encyclopedia cited Elune and Hakkar both as Gods, not Loa or Ancients or anything else.

They are Gods.
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93 Night Elf Priest
16870
I still think it would be an interesting twist if it turned out that Hakkar had defeated the EK Old God and was draining him of power. Would also make Hakkar a far more dangerous opponent,, and since Elune is a Goddess on his level, it would also give a great idea of what her power level is like.
Edited by Resileaf on 9/20/2012 5:25 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
11185
09/20/2012 05:18 PMPosted by Suraia
I hope they have an old god in EK, but one under Hyjal / Ashenvale would be more epic I think.
How exactly would that be epic? (other than epic fail)

The Zandalar's recent shift from neutral neutral to neutral evil seems suspect to old god corruption.
right, or it could have to do with desperation brought on by their home being destroyed by the Cataclysm...



Ancients are Loa. Elune is a Naaru or other force of the light.
Rofl you are out of your mind, settle down and take a timeout.


...This kind of rudeness is why I beware, and often loathe, the WoW forums. I've realized that I was wrong about Hakkar being a loa, but the other points still stand.

"Q: Is Elune a naaru?

A: During a recent visit to Darnassus by Velen, he explained that the kaldorei's description of Elune, as well as the demonstrated powers of the goddess, matched his experiences with powerful naaru. He began to offer advice regarding how to commune with powerful naaru, but Tyrande thanked him for his opinion, then cordially requested that he refrain from making such outlandish claims when in Darnassus or in the presence of Elune's priesthood."

Elune IS a Naaru, or at least something similarly affiliated with the light.

And the Zandalar are (or were) RIGHT next to N'Zoth (below the Maelstrom) so they have a high probability of being affected to some degree.
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