Where the hell is my mastery?

90 Night Elf Druid
17755
I see lots of lev 378 swords, staves, daggers, maces.. but no shields (except 1 at lev 378) and I am still using my 359 crafted shield since I couldn't find any upgrades. And really, a tank is as good as his gear.


Corrupted Carapace Shard of Torment

This, is because of the new stats, I have to balance threat with a percent of dodge and parry


No you don't. Balancing dodge and parry is completely negligent, and should be the absolute last step that you should ever take. If you intend to actually get Mastery, every single piece of gear that you have should be Reforged with Mastery in mind.

You're wasting Hit as it is by having Hit over 7.5%.

Mind you, if i sat with a pen and paper and crunched numbers on my gear, gems, enchants, I might be able to tweak it a little bit more, but I am not quite that 'elitist'.


I don't think you actually comprehend what elitism actually is.

I'm not just sitting here complaining


That is literally all that you are doing, and it's worse because your complaining isn't even grounded in reality, so you're complaining about things that aren't even actually an issue. Warrior only tier gear at the 384/397 level has Mastery on 4 out of 5 pieces, and you're here whining about a lack of Mastery?
Edited by Slashlove on 9/17/2012 5:20 AM PDT
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90 Human Warrior
8280
The original tanking class, psh, Son I tanked all content as a Bear since Vanilla. You have not even tanked Baradin Hold. You come in here and pitch a huge fit about how you are "The Original Tank" and how you are being dealt a death blow by Blizzard because you don't think you have enough mastery. Why exactly do you need all that Hit and Expertise? At the expense of your precious mastery when you are tanking 5 mans at that? You are not that elitist, I would agree with you there, I however shall keep my opinion to myself.

Now why don't you go take a break from the game and realize that you are not the God o Tanks that you think you are, never were and never will be. Your stats are fine and if you are having issues with threat, its not a stat issue.


OH, you mean run spam swipe, run, spam swipe, run, spam swipe? How about blizz cuts out your agility, or your massive stamina bonus? Seriously, druid tanks are tanks made by those that can't play a warrior tank. Maybe they should cut out all your agility? Or maybe take all the dodge off leather gear?

And where did you get that I was having issues with threat??? What I said was, my AoE cool downs were to long or to few. Allowing for dps not focusing on my primary target, which then never do, with hunters for example spamming multi-shot, that AoE threat is essential. As for tanking, remember who is was crying because they couldn't even make it past the trash to even get to the first boss in Grim Batol? I guarantee it was not protection warriors. Oh, yes, I remember, it was DRUID TANKS! Since my warlock was my first 85, I did a lot of dungeons, and never did see any druid do grim batol until they cried so hard that they got buffed up, something that other tanking classes didn't need.
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90 Night Elf Druid
17755
Seriously, druid tanks are tanks made by those that can't play a warrior tank


Lol. Just ... lol.

Get over yourself, bro. Warriors are not hard to play, and never have been.

Or maybe take all the dodge off leather gear?


Have you played this game in the last 5 years?

As for tanking, remember who is was crying because they couldn't even make it past the trash to even get to the first boss in Grim Batol? I guarantee it was not protection warriors. Oh, yes, I remember, it was DRUID TANKS! Since my warlock was my first 85, I did a lot of dungeons, and never did see any druid do grim batol until they cried so hard that they got buffed up, something that other tanking classes didn't need.


Wat
Edited by Slashlove on 9/17/2012 5:23 AM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Priest
14930
This, ladies and gentlemen, is a lesson: don't fall behind on taking those pills the nice folks in the white coats ordered you to take.
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90 Night Elf Druid
17755
I'm laughing so hard that there are tears of joy.
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90 Human Warrior
8280
No you don't. Balancing dodge and parry is completely negligent


It is obvious, you have no idea what a tank is or does. I can also, as you can see, be 'selective' as to what I quote.

My HIT is over 7.5% because that is as close as I can get TO 7.5% without being UNDER 7.5%, hence the pen and paper remark. Which, you would realize if you had any clue what a tank does.
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90 Night Elf Druid
17755
It is obvious, you have no idea what a tank is or does. I can also, as you can see, be 'selective' as to what I quote.

My HIT is over 7.5% because that is as close as I can get TO 7.5% without being UNDER 7.5%, hence the pen and paper remark. Which, you would realize if you had any clue what a tank does.


Balancing dodge and parry gets you a net benefit that is extremely small. Sheer encounter rng in all cases will completely drown out any possible effect you could notice from doing so.

My HIT is over 7.5% because that is as close as I can get TO 7.5% without being UNDER 7.5%, hence the pen and paper remark. Which, you would realize if you had any clue what a tank does.


A cursory glance tells me that changing one 40 Mastery gem to Hit/Mastery, and reversing the Reforge on your weapon would get you closer to 7.5% and net you more Mastery.

Other low-budget alternatives would include reversing the reforge on your Chest and instead reforging Parry to Hit on either Wrist, Waist or Feet, all of which have less Parry and therefore mean that you wouldn't be as far over on Hit as you currently are.

It didn't take pen and paper to figure that out; it took simple math that I could have done when I was 6 years old.
Edited by Slashlove on 9/17/2012 5:39 AM PDT
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90 Human Warrior
8280
lol.. never mind the "wat" "wat" "wat" it's more like wah, wah, wah. You know it is true, ask any dps or healer, which tanks failed the most when cata came out, because they couldn't rely strictly on chain pulling and swiping.

This when you actually had to do quests and progressive dungeons to get gear and raise your item level. Before you could fake your ilev with pvp blues, because nobody had high enough crafting skills to make pre made gear to sell in the auction house.

Remember, I started cata as a squishy warlock. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know what class was tanking when you wiped the most.
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90 Night Elf Druid
17755
You know it is true, ask any dps or healer, which tanks failed the most when cata came out, because they couldn't rely strictly on chain pulling and swiping.


Apparently you were playing this entirely different game that was not World of Warcraft: Cataclysm.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12350
Troll?

09/17/2012 04:02 AMPosted by Balk
they aren't so good for warriors that use shields and depend on block to generate threat, especially since the last nuke to our AoE threat generation


... Do warriors generate from blocks anymore? I thought it was down to Shield Slam + Revenge and a minute amount of passive rage generation from Defensive Stance now?

Your AoE's better than it's ever been, as well, from my understanding.

Of course, I don't play a warrior full time. So my butt may be talking here.

09/17/2012 04:02 AMPosted by Balk
The general point to the post, in the first place, is why screw with one class to make the other, newer classes more viable?


Newsflash: Warriors weren't the only one messed with. Guardian, paladin, and warriors all got revamped pretty significantly. I'm guessing you're just not adapting very well.

09/17/2012 04:17 AMPosted by Balk
This, is because of the new stats, I have to balance threat with a percent of dodge and parry, and maintain as much block as possible, while actually hitting targets to maintain threat.


Reading this makes me think you're quite honestly over thinking your stats. Now, I haven't kept up with warrior theory, but should be along similar lines as paladin, I believe, and Theck's working warrior numbers up as well. Even without hit/expertise, you should be able to maintain adequate treat over DPSers; just pulls might be a tad trickier without hit/soft expertise caps. Don't need to balance parry/dodge anymore. It seems, at least for the rest of 85, that you can safely stay out of dodge and reforge it into parry/mastery after doing hit/expertise if you go with those two.

09/17/2012 04:02 AMPosted by Balk
As a reminder, the job of the protection warrior (or paladin) is not to do high dps, especially on single targets, the job of these tanking classes, is to suck up a ton of damage, and keep the mobs attention by slamming them in the face with a shield every time they even LOOK at the healer or dps classes.


More and more, tanks seem to be required to put out DPS. Especially on checks such as what Ultraxion used to be, and squeezing out as much as possible on spine tendons. That said, I do agree that primary job for us to make sure the boss is positioned correctly, we avoid void zones, and use cooldowns and active mitigation to soak up the damage. DK and guardian are generally always going to beat us in DPS, though with the new vengeance that may change a little. Kinda doubt it. Monk's going to be pretty strong DPS as well.

Of course there is "mastery" gear mostly level 378. Yes, that trinket has mastery. That is only one slot. Look at the gear for protection warriors though, lev 378 vs 397.


You're forgetting something, I think. We're now 'balanced for 90.' If you were in 384+ as a warrior, you were hitting CTC previously; or at least close to it. They removed this capability for warriors and paladins. We have a new tool to use in its place.

Truth is, though, from T12 to T13, your set gained an extra 495 mastery. Conversely, from T12 to T13, paladins [b]lost[b] 234 mastery on their set. But that's because warriors didn't scale mastery nearly as well as paladins did.

09/17/2012 04:35 AMPosted by Balk
you should be screaming at blizz, just like I am, since it is the healers 'behind' in the sling if the tank can't mitigate damage properly.


So don't be stupid and use your active mitigation properly. Post-5.0.4, you should be taking roughly the same amount of damage as before. YES, you'll be slightly spikier than before when your AM isn't up and running, but normal hits aren't the threat generally. It's those bigger specials. Be smart about your cooldowns and rage use.

09/17/2012 04:35 AMPosted by Balk
The one thing I can't stand though, is a squishy tank blaming the healer for not being able to heal them.


.... above.

09/17/2012 05:01 AMPosted by Balk
Hence my complaints about gear currently available in this expansion


Wow. ONE MORE WEEK. Just one. Suck it up and deal with it.

09/17/2012 05:01 AMPosted by Balk
I guess my biggest complaint, is that protection warriors, a class that has been around since warcraft first had dungeons, have been forgotten by Devs.


Warriors got a ton of work recently, and it was overall for the better. I still think your problem is you just haven't adapted well to it.
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90 Human Warrior
8280
It is obvious, you have no idea what a tank is or does. I can also, as you can see, be 'selective' as to what I quote.

My HIT is over 7.5% because that is as close as I can get TO 7.5% without being UNDER 7.5%, hence the pen and paper remark. Which, you would realize if you had any clue what a tank does.


Balancing dodge and parry gets you a net benefit that is extremely small. Sheer encounter rng in all cases will completely drown out any possible effect you could notice from doing so.

My HIT is over 7.5% because that is as close as I can get TO 7.5% without being UNDER 7.5%, hence the pen and paper remark. Which, you would realize if you had any clue what a tank does.


A cursory glance tells me that changing one 40 Mastery gem to Hit/Mastery, and reversing the Reforge on your weapon would get you closer to 7.5% and net you more Mastery.

It didn't take pen and paper to figure that out; it took basic math.


So apparently, you know more about it that Wasiou. Since it was his sticky I used in computing my parry and dodge.

And which part of "I am not sitting down with a pen and paper to figure in changing gems and enchants?" Do you really think, that a fraction of a fraction of a percentage over "perfect hit" calculation makes that much of a difference? Like, losing say, the extra 0.11% to another stat is going to make or break my damage mitigation or threat generation?

I was not talking about losing 0.0011 mastery, I was talking about losing 100% mastery on the new 397 gear vs available mastery on 378 gear.
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90 Human Warrior
8280
09/17/2012 05:24 AMPosted by Nerfheals
This, ladies and gentlemen, is a lesson: don't fall behind on taking those pills the nice folks in the white coats ordered you to take.


An excellent post, from someone that has so limited an intellect, that they can't form a valid point for or against a topic, but instead resorts to "Your mother wears combat boots, neener neener neener..."

Here.. look, I will save you 20 minutes of thinking, and I will make your next post for you....

"OH YEAH???"
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100 Blood Elf Priest
14930
09/17/2012 05:48 AMPosted by Balk
I was talking about losing 100% mastery on the new 397 gear vs available mastery on 378 gear.


Which you're not. Because it has mastery.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12350
09/17/2012 05:01 AMPosted by Balk
I see lots of lev 378 swords, staves, daggers, maces.. but no shields (except 1 at lev 378) and I am still using my 359 crafted shield since I couldn't find any upgrades.


You have a 359 crafted shield, there's a 378 from an easy to farm heroic, and you can instant queue LFR for a 384 shield and more than likely win it if it drops since it's a 50/50 if your LFR turns up with two shield tanks; guaranteed if you get a DK or druid. You can go back into Firelands for a 378/391 I believe as well. How many different shields do you need for one tier? Previously to 5.0.4, that's just ONE. After 5.0.4, I can see them giving us two options; a mastery/active mitigation type shield, and an avoidance type shield with dodge/parry.

09/17/2012 05:01 AMPosted by Balk
Anyone that disagrees needs to get a DPS Death Knight to tank a cata heroic, in his DPS gear.


I tank heroics in the gear I'm logged in right now. Wannafightaboutit? Hell, I even do heroic DS with it! WANNAFIGHTABOUTIT?

09/17/2012 05:18 AMPosted by Balk
run spam swipe, run, spam swipe, run, spam swipe?


Ain't swipe on a 6s cooldown? Not exactly spammable. My CS is more spammable than that, and I think my CS has a crappy cooldown now.

And where did you get that I was having issues with threat??? What I said was, my AoE cool downs were to long or to few. Allowing for dps not focusing on my primary target, which then never do, with hunters for example spamming multi-shot, that AoE threat is essential.


How are you not holding AoE threat? Are you in defensive stance? ARE YOU SURE? Seriously. Charge in, thunderclap, shockwave, cleave, get face smashed, have stronger thunderclap/deepwounds/shockwave/cleave, faceroll trash harder. Are you not holding threat against the other tank? I can understand that easier than I can you not holding threat against a multi-shotting hunter.

Remember, I started cata as a squishy warlock. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know what class was tanking when you wiped the most.


What does this have to do with anything? Bad groups will be bad groups.

... troll.
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90 Night Elf Druid
17755
Do you really think, that a fraction of a fraction of a percentage over "perfect hit" calculation makes that much of a difference?


And yet you felt it made enough of a difference to balance Dodge and Parry, which net you an even lower benefit. But you couldn't be bothered to apply common sense to realise something very simple when you were reforging to begin with. It heightens the hilarity of you putting out this statement: "Which, you would realize if you had any clue what a tank does."

You don't even know the basics of how much you're actually gaining from your actions, and you're certainly not applying actual thought to what you do. You're complaining about a nonexistent problem, since Mastery goes UP going from T12 to T13. Apparently you think playing a Warrior and blindly following a sticky without actually understanding it is an accomplishment.

If you were smart, you would have walked away from this discussion and just done one of the Reforging suggestions that I gave you, without having to use Pen and Paper, relying on people smarter than you to tell you what to do which seems to be your MO. But then if you were smart, this thread wouldn't exist.
Edited by Slashlove on 9/17/2012 6:01 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
5960
Your warrior is bad and you should feel bad :)
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90 Human Warrior
8280
Troll?

they aren't so good for warriors that use shields and depend on block to generate threat, especially since the last nuke to our AoE threat generation


... Do warriors generate from blocks anymore? I thought it was down to Shield Slam + Revenge and a minute amount of passive rage generation from Defensive Stance now?



Block procs our shield slam, hence affects our rage and threat. No mastery = no block = no procs = greatly reduced threat from shield slam.
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90 Human Warrior
8280
09/17/2012 05:57 AMPosted by Gojiberry
Your warrior is bad and you should feel bad :)


And this from a blood DK, stacking on Stamina with NO MITIGATION at all? GOD, I pity anybody unlucky enough to be melee taking AoE damage in your groups. I bet you see OOM a LOT from healers, don't you?
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