Scenario out of sync with book

100 Human Warrior
16100
Because a lot of people, myself included, were convinced that the Fall of Theramore was MoP's world event

Maybe that explains a lot of the let down


inb4 "Well you shouldn't have expected it to be MOP's lead-in event even though Blizzard has stated this themselves."
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Because a lot of people, myself included, were convinced that the Fall of Theramore was MoP's world event

Maybe that explains a lot of the let down


inb4 "Well you shouldn't have expected it to be MOP's lead-in event even though Blizzard has stated this themselves."


Well, you know, when a lot of people (and I mean a lot of people) both in game and on forums have this misconception, there must be some failure of communication.

Hey, if this is indeed the case, then I'm just dissappointed at the content of the scenario.
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100 Tauren Druid
9580
As recently as August 24th Blizzard posted this:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/7045643

The first two Scenarios (one for Horde and one for Alliance) are coming with 5.0.4, but they won’t be enabled until a few weeks before the Mists of Pandaria expansion release. Keep an eye on the front page of this blog for more info.


Also, MMO-Champ had posted this video as recently as MAY:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDiwlp2wgOg

09/18/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Mordstreich
inb4 "Well you shouldn't have expected it to be MOP's lead-in event even though Blizzard has stated this themselves."


They stated quite the opposite and, according to a recent interview with GC on 9/1, they hadn't intended it to be a world event for a long time now:

buffed: We learned that the Theramore scenario will be available during the week prior to MoP's launch. Some of our readers were wondering whether there would be additional content -- quests or events -- to go along with that as pre event for the expansion.

Street: The Theramore scenario is really our content leading up to the launch. And the launch isn't that far away at this point. We don't have a big Scourge invasion type event this time. We originally talked about maybe doing some type of fleet battle, but it was so ambitious that we worried it would actually cut into our development time of Mists of Pandaria. At the end of the day we figured players would rather have an awesome expansion that lasts them a year or two than a launch event that would only last a couple of weeks.
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90 Night Elf Priest
10400
Leave it as an instance, if they truly wanted to involve the players, but then give it the depth and emotion it should have had.


You mean like a 5-man dungeon I'm assuming? (because it already is an instance).

*shrug* We can simply disagree on that. I think you can have depth and emotion in a scenario. It's not all that different from a 5-man, aside from having fewer players and it being a bit shorter. It will allow them to do scenarios from two different sides, too, which I think s awesome.


Ok. I don't have issues with scenarios. I'm not sure why that's not clear. I have issue with the fact that an event THIS important was only given 10 min of "face time" as it were. It's a BIG deal. It should have had more to it. Not necessarily a world event. It could have been a 10 - 25 man event, where more people were involved. It would have felt... grander.

Also I never said you can't have depth and emotion in scenarios. I said "this" particular scenario lacked depth and emotion given what it was about, which is the annihilation of a nation.
Edited by Mahalia on 9/18/2012 1:22 PM PDT
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90 Troll Rogue
11815
Part of the problem with this event I think for making it large in game is, do you really want a massive event when 1/2 the population of WoW basically thinks they've lost? Has there ever been an event where after completing it, you lose in WoW? Especially when the other 1/2 wins. I mean, look at the land changes which occurred in the Shattering. The Alliance players didn't fight then lose Southshore. They just logged in one day and it was gone.
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100 Tauren Druid
9580
Ok. I don't have issues with scenarios. I'm not sure why that's not clear. I have issue with the fact that an event THIS important was only given 10 min of "face time" as it were. It's a BIG deal. It should have had more to it. Not necessarily a world event. It could have been a 10 - 25 man event, where more people were involved. It would have felt... grander.

Also I never said you can't have depth and emotion in scenarios. I said "this" particular scenario lacked depth and emotion given what it was about, which is the annihilation of a nation.


Let's be clear -- it's the annihilation of most of a city that was often deserted except for the random quester. There are survivors, of course.

I didn't think you had a problem with scenarios. I'm saying you should take everything into account, including gameplay considerations.

Also, keep in mind that most of us far outgear this scenario. If done at the appropriate ilvl (354 is it?) this scenario would have taken longer and been more challenging.
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85 Dwarf Hunter
10935
I think the scenario was really poorly presented - from both the Alliance side and the Horde side:

Alliance Side

Really starts with a wtf, if you haven't read the book - why am I at Theramore and how did three goblins and a zepplin nuke the place? Really could have used an intro quest;
No sync with the novel. The novel and the promo interviews for the novels gave us certain expectations of where and how we would be involved as the Alliance PCs which weren't delivered on. The Alliance quests seem to mirror the Horde quests. Unfortunately, rightly or wrongly, it lends to the impression of Alliance development being rushed.

Horde Side

Slightly less wtf at the beginning - at least someone tells you that there was a failed Horde assault on Theramore - but the wtf kicks in immediately since there is no evidence of a failed Horde assault - just a bunch of npc Theramore guards wandering around like it was a regular patrol day. Where are the massed Alliance forces? Where are the wounded Alliance troops from the assault?
Story sync with the novel is not as immediate a problem since the Horde version in the novel had next to no detail - but there are still issues. There is practically a platoon of orc soldiers holding the docks - How do the massed Alliance forces still in Theramore not notice this? Again this looks lazy and rushed - why is the Horde mission not more stealth based - pop a couple of illusion potions and sneak into Theramore?
And finally, I really didn't like how the Horde version left the Horde PC feeling like a chump - risking your life to rescue a Horde member, only to be faced with some triple agent psychopath Blood elf who tells you that you have been played by your own faction and not let in on the real plan.

Really good idea in concept - but the execution was seriously lacking and seemed really rushed.
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90 Tauren Death Knight
11170
The main problem I had with the Scenario was lack of context. Without reading the book, anyone entering Theramore's Fall is going to ask "Uh. . .what the hell just happened?" There should have been more to it: a quest explaining what happened, a cutscene showing the Horde attacking and then getting rebuffed, Garrosh standing on a hill explaining to Baine and Vol'jin what is about to happen, etc.

As someone who read the book, I understood exactly what happened and what role I had to play. Unfortunately, most people don't read the books. Hell, my girlfriend has read some of the books, but not Tides of War. She said if it hadn't been for me, she wouldn't have known what just happened.
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100 Tauren Druid
9580
09/18/2012 01:33 PMPosted by Ironaxe
why am I at Theramore and how did three goblins and a zepplin nuke the place? Really could have used an intro quest;


http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/mists-of-pandaria/scenario/theramores-fall-alliance

Search for survivors among the ruins of the razed city. Heroes of the Alliance, be strong!

As dawn breaks over eastern Kalimdor, a trio of adventurers step off a transport ship into a horrific scene: Theramore has been utterly destroyed!

Horde forces scour the island for survivors while beleaguered peons scramble to load the many spoils of war onto orc warships.

What has come to pass?

Where is the Lady Proudmoore?

AND WHO WILL BE MADE TO PAY?
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85 Dwarf Hunter
10935
09/18/2012 01:46 PMPosted by Bullcowsby
why am I at Theramore and how did three goblins and a zepplin nuke the place? Really could have used an intro quest;


http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/mists-of-pandaria/scenario/theramores-fall-alliance

Search for survivors among the ruins of the razed city. Heroes of the Alliance, be strong!

As dawn breaks over eastern Kalimdor, a trio of adventurers step off a transport ship into a horrific scene: Theramore has been utterly destroyed!

Horde forces scour the island for survivors while beleaguered peons scramble to load the many spoils of war onto orc warships.

What has come to pass?

Where is the Lady Proudmoore?

AND WHO WILL BE MADE TO PAY?


That was a really highly misleading way to quote my post to make it look like I was saying something I didn't. I have read the book and I know what was going on and why I was there. My point was that people who haven't read the book won't have a clue. And tiny paragraph on Blizz's website doesn't really cut it. An in game intro quest would have been a much better approach.
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100 Tauren Druid
9580
09/18/2012 01:51 PMPosted by Ironaxe
That was a really highly misleading way to quote my post to make it look like I was saying something I didn't.


But you DID say that. It doesn't mean YOU don't know, but you think others might not. I provided a simple, easy-to-find explanation. Before you start throwing accusations you might want to look at the larger point I was making. My intent was obvious -- and it was nto to make you sound like you didn't know. I don't really care what you or don't know. I do care that you're not fully informed on the easily-accessible information about the scenario.

An in game intro quest would have been a much better approach.


Not to say that it was incredibly spelled out, but to point out that on Blizzard's own site are basic explanations that set the stage for what you're about to do so things aren't quite as "wtf" as you make them out to be. Also, Horde version (emphasis mine to explain why it's not an balls-to-the-wall free-for-all):

Turn the tide of the failed assault on Theramore and claim her riches! For the Horde!

Garrosh’s siege on Theramore Isle – the strongest Alliance bastion remaining on Kalimdor – has failed!

…or has it?

In the dead of night, as Theramore’s defenders huddle within their walls, a small team of capable veterans infiltrates the island, making their way amongst the docked warships of the 7th Fleet.

Their mission: To throw the Alliance forces into chaos while the Warchief’s army regroups.

Burn their ships. Butcher their flight master. Sabotage their war machines. And rescue the captured Horde spy!
Edited by Bullcowsby on 9/18/2012 1:58 PM PDT
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85 Dwarf Hunter
10935
09/18/2012 01:54 PMPosted by Bullcowsby
That was a really highly misleading way to quote my post to make it look like I was saying something I didn't.


But you DID say that. It doesn't mean YOU don't know, but you think others might not. I provided a simple, easy-to-find explanation. Before you start throwing accusations you might want to look at the larger point I was making. My intent was obvious -- and it was nto to make you sound like you didn't know. I don't really care what you or don't know. I do care that you're not fully informed on the easily-accessible information about the scenario.

An in game intro quest would have been a much better approach.


Not to say that it was incredibly spelled out, but to point out that on Blizzard's own site are basic explanations that set the stage for what you're about to do so things aren't quite as "wtf" as you make them out to be. Also, Horde version (emphasis mine to explain why it's not an balls-to-the-wall free-for-all):

Turn the tide of the failed assault on Theramore and claim her riches! For the Horde!

Garrosh’s siege on Theramore Isle – the strongest Alliance bastion remaining on Kalimdor – has failed!

…or has it?

In the dead of night, as Theramore’s defenders huddle within their walls, a small team of capable veterans infiltrates the island, making their way amongst the docked warships of the 7th Fleet.

Their mission: To throw the Alliance forces into chaos while the Warchief’s army regroups.

Burn their ships. Butcher their flight master. Sabotage their war machines. And rescue the captured Horde spy!


If your larger point, is that everything is hunky dory because of some paragraphs on Blizz's website then I disagree. In fact your second cut and paste job of the Horde paragraph shows the problem with your larger point, since the Horde scenario does not reflect that - there is no small group of infiltrators - there is a large number of orcs holding the docks in strength - there is no infiltration. I am not even sure that it happens at night - but I would need to go back and do the Horde version again to be sure. My point was simply that there was insufficient context in the game itself for the scenario.
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100 Tauren Druid
9580
09/18/2012 02:02 PMPosted by Ironaxe
If your larger point, is that everything is hunky dory because of some paragraphs on Blizz's website then I disagree. In fact your second cut and paste job of the Horde paragraph shows the problem with your larger point, since the Horde scenario does not reflect that - there is no small group of infiltrators - there is a large number of orcs holding the docks in strength - there is no infiltration. I am not even sure that it happens at night - but I would need to go back and do the Horde version again to be sure. My point was simply that there was insufficient context in the game itself for the scenario.


1) I'm not gunna argue over whether or not you can read my post.
2) I did the scenario - you leave the initial ship with 4 soldiers. There are two guarding the planks leading up to where you begin. There are another 4-5 on the docks with the goblin quest giver. You're overstating the orc presence. So yes, in fact, you and a small group are infiltrating Theramore. If you continue through you'll see that the second stage begins with an Alliance member shouting "The ships are aflame! Troops to the harbor!" -- supporting the idea that the Alliance is inside, unaware of the ongoing infiltration. Welcome to the second stage
3) I'm sorry you don't believe it happens at night. Blizzard says it does, though. Load up a run-through of it and you'll see lit lamp posts and you'll see the aforementioned Goblin holding a freaking torch.

Things aren't as woefully unexplained as you indicate. One does not need to read the book to get a general idea of what is going on, one simply needs to care to look it up for free on Blizzard's own site.
Edited by Bullcowsby on 9/18/2012 2:22 PM PDT
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85 Dwarf Hunter
10935
09/18/2012 02:21 PMPosted by Bullcowsby
If your larger point, is that everything is hunky dory because of some paragraphs on Blizz's website then I disagree. In fact your second cut and paste job of the Horde paragraph shows the problem with your larger point, since the Horde scenario does not reflect that - there is no small group of infiltrators - there is a large number of orcs holding the docks in strength - there is no infiltration. I am not even sure that it happens at night - but I would need to go back and do the Horde version again to be sure. My point was simply that there was insufficient context in the game itself for the scenario.


1) I'm not gunna argue over whether or not you can read my post.
2) I did the scenario - you leave the initial ship with 4 soldiers. There are two guarding the planks leading up to where you begin. There are another 4-5 on the docks with the goblin quest giver. You're overstating the orc presence. So yes, in fact, you and a small group are infiltrating Theramore. If you continue through you'll see that the second stage begins with an Alliance member shouting "The ships are aflame! Troops to the harbor!" -- supporting the idea that the Alliance is inside, unaware of the ongoing infiltration. Welcome to the second stage
3) I'm sorry you don't believe it happens at night. Blizzard says it does, though. Load up a run-through of it and you'll see lit lamp posts and you'll see the aforementioned Goblin holding a freaking torch.

Things aren't as woefully unexplained as you indicate. One does not need to read the book to get a general idea of what is going on, one simply needs to care to look it up for free on Blizzard's own site.


1) I am not going to argue with you that you didn't actually make a point in your post - you just cut and paste some stuff and expected me to understand your thought process;
2) I think you are undercounting the number of orcs on the docks - there are more fanned out to the right and the left of the central area.
3)I accept your better recollection than mine about whether it was at night. It still doesn't match my view of an infiltration, but I acccept that the term "infiltration" can have different meanings and you and I may disagree on that.

On the larger issue of whether it was well explained, we will have to agree to disagree.
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100 Tauren Druid
9580
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q_oRD1TXEw

Simple solution. I just did a simple search for "Fall of Theramore Horde".
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100 Human Warrior
16100
09/18/2012 01:20 PMPosted by Bullcowsby
They stated quite the opposite and, according to a recent interview with GC on 9/1, they hadn't intended it to be a world event for a long time now:


I could have sworn they said that this was supposed to be the MOP lead-in event.

Imagine my surprise when every other expansion had at least a decent lead-in event and MOP doesn't, and people dislike this turn of events. I am 100$ shocked.
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100 Tauren Druid
9580
I could have sworn they said that this was supposed to be the MOP lead-in event.

Imagine my surprise when every other expansion had at least a decent lead-in event and MOP doesn't, and people dislike this turn of events. I am 100$ shocked.


It was a lead-in.

Every other expansion did? Have you been following each expansion? In each expansion the sheer whining from the playerbase was almost enough to destroy Azeroth in its own right.

WAAAAAAH ZOMBIES ATE MY NPCS
WAAAAAAAAAAAH ELEMENTALS ATE MY NPCS

Gimme a break. People can dislike it all they want, but dislike it for legitimate reasons, not because of some half-baked understanding of what was coming led to invalid expectations.

Told you're getting food and expect a damn $150 steak and then complain when you get pot roast? Entitlement, it's what's for players.
Edited by Bullcowsby on 9/18/2012 3:03 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Priest
10400
Let's be clear -- it's the annihilation of most of a city that was often deserted except for the random quester. There are survivors, of course.


Not in canon.

Also, keep in mind that most of us far outgear this scenario. If done at the appropriate ilvl (354 is it?) this scenario would have taken longer and been more challenging.


I'm not really concerned with the difficulty of the encounter. Though, to be fair, I ran this on a Frost DK with two rogues, and I died to one of the bosses and we almost wiped. This with a group that was pulling 25K, 22K and 12 K dps. Done at the appropriate level, it most certainly should prove challenging esp if you have no heals. You can get away with no tank.

But that's not what I'm talking about. In the world of Azeroth itself this was a big event and should have been a big event. It's fine to tell people to go google this or that but the point is, people should not HAVE to. It should be information given in-game. Heck, you could have received a summons from Varian if you're Alliance, and ordered to sail to Theramore. Ok, you don't get there in time for the bomb, but at least you have some idea of why you are going there and what happened (Rhonin, etc).

Is this too much to ask for?
Edited by Mahalia on 9/18/2012 3:06 PM PDT
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So is this thread going to continue down the same debate in most of the other threads, related to whether this was a suitable "pre-MoP event" or not and what Blizz said about it...

Or actually discuss the OP's point, that the Alliance version of events doesn't sync up with the book.
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100 Tauren Druid
9580
09/18/2012 03:05 PMPosted by Mahalia
Not in canon


What isn't in canon? The deserted part? Because that was more to counter the complaints of RPers. The survivors?

There are survivors.

Heck, you could have received a summons from Varian if you're Alliance, and ordered to sail to Theramore. Ok, you don't get there in time for the bomb, but at least you have some idea of why you are going there and what happened (Rhonin, etc).


So that would have made it better? I.. I just don't see how something so small and inconsequential can fundamentally change the quality of this. And hey, I agree a little more info would have been nice. I don't agree that it's so completely and utterly unexplained is all.
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