REAL Ele problems

85 Undead Rogue
6920
09/22/2012 03:37 AMPosted by Rude


Yeah? Look at shadow priests. They dot up a room full of their opponents and next thing you know they're hopping around spamming instant casts like a mage with ice lance.

Except for the part where Mind Blast being instant has absolutely nothing to do with their dots

look up divine insight
Reply Quote
85 Tauren Shaman
3840
There are two. I don't know what they are called. One says "your SW:P procs instant cast Mind blast" the other says "Your Vampiric Touch procs instant mind spike"

And they go off every GCD when you have 3-4 ppl dotted. I'm not exaggerating!
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Shaman
12410
09/21/2012 10:27 PMPosted by Gistwiki
Uhhhh what? isn't 87 ascendance, what do you cast when lava burst is on cooldown along with elemental blast? Why would someone need to regen mana as a DPS?


In order - I'm not sure, Yes, and we used to need mana regeneration but the Spiritual insight passive along with the new 4-pc have more or less solved it.

Is this a serious question?


The insinuation is that you haven't done any serious pvp since the changes to accurately gauge how the 8s dispel change impacted whether or not Flame Shock needed some sort of dispel protection. In any case, Blizzard said that they thought at this point it was unnecessary after the dispel changes but that they'd look into Flame Shock specifically.


If a class is balanced around SERIOUS PVP, that's a problem, if something is a big problem in group PVP but it's much less of a problem in """"SERIOUS""""" pvp, which I assume is arena, that doesn't make it ok, or any less of a problem. Let's forget about dispel protection, lets focus on the core ele shaman damage, lava burst, this spell simply isn't viable on a target without flameshock, and with lightning bolt hitting like wet paper bags, most SHOCK globals are spent on flameshock.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Shaman
16690
If a class is balanced around SERIOUS PVP, that's a problem, if something is a big problem in group PVP but it's much less of a problem in """"SERIOUS""""" pvp, which I assume is arena, that doesn't make it ok, or any less of a problem.


So you're saying that pvp should be balanced around people who are doing things that should cause them to lose directly? In a group scenario a healer blowing his 8 second dispel on Flame Shock should result in either a now undispellable 8 second cc on his fellow healer which in group pvp should mean that the healer that blew his dispel on flame shock now DIES.

Arena or RBGs. Either one. Competitive pvp, which is generally what the game's pvp is balanced (lolpvpbalanceinwow >.>) around. Random bgs have a minor role, but skill is vastly more important than class/spec balance in those anyways.

Let's forget about dispel protection, lets focus on the core ele shaman damage, lava burst, this spell simply isn't viable on a target without flameshock,


Lava Burst is at approximately 80% of the DPCT (Damage Per Cast Time - NOT DAMAGE PER CAST) with Elemental Blast without Flame Shock on the target. Are you going to start saying Elemental Blast doesn't do viable damage unless blizzard gives it auto-crit on flame shock? :-|

Edit: Went and did the math again and found I had done something horribly wrong. #s are now fixed. Point will still stand though.
Edited by Gistwiki on 9/22/2012 11:49 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Shaman
12410
You quoted half of what I said and responded as it was the only thing I said, here let me demonstrate.

Random bgs have a minor role, but skill is vastly more important than class/spec balance in those anyways.


So basically all these mages running around who don't use counterspell, don't spell steal, don't CC, and still dominate are skilled players, it has nothing to do with class / spec balance?
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Shaman
16690
09/22/2012 12:26 PMPosted by Kymeisucks
and with lightning bolt hitting like wet paper bags, most SHOCK globals are spent on flameshock.


This was the only portion of your post I didn't respond to. I didn't respond to it because I happen to agree with the assertion that most shock globals end up getting spent on flame shock, but for different reasons than the one you placed there.

09/22/2012 11:00 PMPosted by Kymeisucks
So basically all these mages running around who don't use counterspell, don't spell steal, don't CC, and still dominate are skilled players, it has nothing to do with class / spec balance?


Skilled is a relevant term. If you're having problems with said mages I'd venture a guess and say that they likely at least on an equal skill level with you though <3

If you want a true display of skill trumping class balance, I'd suggest you channel your inner Jungyup.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Shaman
17085
09/21/2012 10:58 AMPosted by Evilgaff
its on a 6 sec cool down most disspell's are on an 8 sec cool down reapply the damn thing..


You obviously don't understand the problem.

Flame Shock's damage is !@#$. Whether it deals a ton of damage or not, we really don't care.

What it DOES do is make Lava Burst 100% crit which in turn makes our next 2 spells hit 10% harder.

THAT -- is a huge loss of DPS for us.

With Cata and MoP -- Lava Surge procs make not having Flame Shock up an even bigger DPS loss.

To top it off our DPS is "balanced" (if you want to call it balanced) around a 100% uptime on Flame Shock.

See here's the deal about Flame Shock. ALL of our dmg is tied to it.
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Shaman
12410
09/22/2012 11:52 PMPosted by Gistwiki
If you want a true display of skill trumping class balance, I'd suggest you channel your inner Jungyup.


Kiss me on the lips.

09/23/2012 05:45 AMPosted by Act
See here's the deal about Flame Shock. ALL of our dmg is tied to it.


Wow somebody on this forum actually plays an elemental shaman.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Shaman
16690
09/23/2012 09:56 AMPosted by Kymeisucks
Kiss me on the lips.


You said that particular portion of your post wasn't going to be particularly serious so I replied in kind <3

09/23/2012 09:56 AMPosted by Kymeisucks
Wow somebody on this forum actually plays an elemental shaman.


Because only people who participate in the use of hyperbole play elemental shaman. Good to know.

Edit: To clarify my feelings, I think this is an issue but I don't think it's as much of an issue as many believe it will be. It'll hurt to have it dispelled, but with any sort of organization/cc it should hurt the person who dispelled it far more. The real problem is that there is indeed a situation where they'll want to dispel flame shock & that's the instant we pop Ascendance. That means we'll end up tied at the hip to other classes with a few dots (while Afflocks would be ideal, a Spriest or Boomkin would work to an extent because of the cds on dispels) of their own to provide some sort of protection for flame shock.

Adding dispel protection to flame shock would open us up to a wider variety of teammates with which we have strong synergy, but whether or not it's necessary is another question altogether. Obviously you and many others believe it is. For my own part I believe it'd be wonderful & extremely useful, but that it isn't necessary.
Edited by Gistwiki on 9/23/2012 11:51 AM PDT
Reply Quote
The real problem is that there is indeed a situation where they'll want to dispel flame shock & that's the instant we pop Ascendance.

or u can pop ascendance after the healer just used his dispel
not a prob
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Shaman
16690
or u can pop ascendance after the healer just used his dispel
not a prob


True enough. I mean 15s duration ascendance & 8s cd dispel, but at that point your pressure may not permit the GCD for a dispel.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Shaman
9045
I think Shocks, if they were to be unlinked with the Frost Shock talent, each shock should behave a little differently.

Earth Shock (Elemental Only) - no longer causes damage, unless combined with Fulmination charges and continues to add it's physical damage debuff. Earth Shock can do normal damage for Enhancement and Resto.

Frost Shock - deals no damage, but freezes in place as per the talent and applies the slow effect ONLY if they're immune to the freeze due to diminishing returns (if that's possible, otherwise, always applies the slow)

Flame Shock - stays as is, the instant damage sucks (especially if glyphed) and is mostly just a setup for Lava Burst. And If dispelled, since it is very important, Flame Shock could spread to friendly targets of the originally inflicted target. Say you're in AB, at BS and you Flame shock a Holy Paladin near the flag and he along with a warrior and a rogue are fighting off 2 warrior buddies of yours, he dispels it on himself, but in doing so, spreads the full or even leftover duration of Flame Shock to his 2 buddies. This would obviously be less useful in 1 vs 1 and not as great in 2vs2 but in BGs like AV or Isle of Conquest, this could REALLY do some good for Elemental! Imagine if a shock was dispelled and like 10 people were around him/her and they were all flame shocked! (obviously for things like this, there would have to be a limit of 3 spreads per flame shock dispel.

I'm not very good at this, this is just some thoughts, needs work!
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]