Ask a Feral PvP'er!

90 Tauren Druid
0
I’ve been cruising these forums quite a bit since Patch 5 launched and I’m alarmed by how many folks still seem to think Feral is in a bad place for PvP currently. I can only speculate that players are simply taking a superficial glance at the new play style of the class and turning their noses up and walking away in a huff. Let me assure you, things are not as bad as they seem.

We have far better Cats in this forum than I concerning the topic at hand but I’d like to share my experience to those who may find it useful. Instead of tossing up a bunch of general information that can be found on numerous sites, I’d like this thread to assume a Q n’ A format.

Toss me some questions concerning your individual concerns with Feral PvP and I’ll do my best to offer some explanations. You could be simply overlooking something; then again, maybe you should consider trading your claws in for leaves or feathers. : )

Fire away, Kittens!
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94 Tauren Druid
6565
I think the class has become stronger but significantly more difficult. So what we're seeing is a migration of performance. Weaker players are finding themselves less effective while stronger players are finding themselves more effective.

I do have concerns. With so many abilities that should be used in order to make an effective kill attempt, I'm finding myself over-burdened by excessive button pushing and GCDs. Like:
in no particular order:
I must berserk
I must dps-trinket
I must TF
I must stun
I must use Incarnation or Treants
I must CC the healer
(I may have to use Nature's Vigil)

Have you noticed the same? Do you think it will be a problem?
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100 Night Elf Druid
9605
Arenajunkies.com
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90 Tauren Druid
0
I’ll admit, at times I do feel overburdened with an excess of useful abilities that must all be meshed together properly in order to be effective in my role. Macros go a very long way to helping mitigate some of that distress, but determining some simple preset guidelines of when and how to use your CDs going into a fight will ultimately reduce the frantic feelings knee-deep in battle.

I’ll talk about my macro and bind setup first, then how I go about application next.

I have 4 major dps cooldown binds; Savage Roar, Tiger’s Fury, Burst Macro and Incarnation. My burst macro consists of TF, Trinket and Zerk rolled into one. I had Incarnation in there as well but found it more beneficial to have it on its own for optimal burst as it lasts much longer than Zerk and Trinket.

At this time we can stand toe to toe with pretty much every class in the game as long as we can generate combo points and cycle defensives. NS is there to bridge any gaps in your CP generation and it’s a very welcomed tool indeed. My basic strategy is to wear through enemy defensives by applying a full round of bleeds and simply tanking them with our massive heals. It feels very similar to Vengeance Bearcatting. Since we are typically starved for CPs and energy management is at an all-time high I prefer to setup my burst with Mighty Bash instead of Maim. Once a target has burned through a few class-specific CDs and maybe even a trinket it’s time to setup the burst.

I like to fully apply bleeds (typically done as I’m working through enemy defenses), score a 5 Point Savage Roar (one less cd to worry about when you’re spamming Ravage) and pool energy to nearly capping before I lay down the pain. Incarnation > Ravage, Ravage > TF, Trinket, Zerk > Ravage, Ravage, Ravage, Ravage. Your CPs can go to a variety of finishers from Savage Roar > Rip > Bite. You can even Maim on DR if you need a quick stun to stop a shielded hardcast heal.

In regard to CC, I have damn near every ability in my arsenal bound to a focus modifier. That’s all about finding a groove for what your team needs and filling it. With all of our mobility I typically don’t find it hard to get to a target to focus Bash/Clone. I’m not against NS>Clones if my CP generation is high enough to keep me comfortable.
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90 Tauren Druid
0
09/17/2012 04:30 PMPosted by Iimes
Arenajunkies.com


Skill-Capped.com >>>>> ArenaJunkies.com

All day. Erry day.
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100 Tauren Druid
8475
I'd like to know what you think of savage roar, our talents overall, our cd reliance, and how you feel about our limited use of bear form now?

I'll start at the end first: The reason I have always stuck with feral is all of the things we can do. I do agree with Blizzards decision to split bear form's tankiness into its own spec but I hate how little use we have for bear form now.

As to our CD reliance: We have some of the most powerful cooldowns in the game, especially when used together in a situation we can avoid getting CC'd out of them. If we are able to hit Incarnation and Berserk at the same time, right after a Tiger's Fury, our damage is just ungodly insane...but after those cds are down our damage just seems too low. I don't like that layout myself, being all about every 3 minutes, and I think it will probably cause issues in arenas later.

The previous part leads into our overall talents: Many of our talents just seem very lackluster, especially compared to some other classes. In our tier with Incarnation, I don't think the other options are event decent, much less good. Soul of the Forest and Force of Nature are both meh at best. The stun from Force is ok but we already have pounce, maim, and Mighty Bash available as option (the only decent thing about Force imo is the ability to use it as a ranged stun).
Mighty Bash seems to be a solid talent when I just look at it, but when I think that warriors got an aoe 4 second stun on a 20 second cooldown that can crit for 20k....Mighty Bash just seems lacking. I know it's not fair to compare talents across classes, but some classes just have such amazing or cool talents and I just feel we are lacking that. Just to name a few that I think are really awesome: Psyfiend, Spectral Guise, Subterfuge, Nerve Strike, Unbound Will, Blood Fear, Chi Wave, Leg Sweep, Diffuse Magic, Shockwave, and Mass Spell Reflection. That doesn't include many of the talents that are very class specific, just ones I think are really powerful or really cool. Incarnation is our one ability that I think is pretty cool and very powerful, the rest of ours just seem lackluster by comparison.

Last, but probably most importantly, how do you feel about Savage Roar? I don't mind that we have a buff to increase our damage, what I really dislike is the fact I have to use it every 12 seconds or burn combo points on an ability just to have my damage on par with everyone else. It's not just a power issue, it's also the fact it's just really not fun.

So I guess this turned out to be as much complaint as asking for your input but I'd still like to hear what you think.

Thanks!
Katerian

*edit*
One last thing, Displacer Beast. Why couldn't we get something more in line with the Priest's Spectral Guise so at least enemies lose target and pets don't pop us back out instantly!!!
Edited by Katerian on 9/17/2012 5:16 PM PDT
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90 Troll Druid
7095
I found incarnation to be a energy sink, so I sacrificed it for SoF. I went crit based for self healing so I am usually always using a finisher wether it be SR upkeep or reapplying rip, ect...This helped me with in BG's with survivability. Also it was less to worry about in a rotation, and set ups. Every time I casted super cat I found myself stunned and feared to death. I also like FoN for killing heals.

My only concern is we dont have the damage mitigation in cat that we should, nor the cool downs for chain stuns and fears.

I havent tried arena out since the patch dropped, so I dont know what Ill be using in there. More than likely incarnation for the dps.

All admit at first I hated the new goodies the gave us, no I have to many I dont know what to do with it all.
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90 Night Elf Druid
8155
09/17/2012 04:32 PMPosted by Hanharr
My basic strategy is to wear through enemy defensives by applying a full round of bleeds and simply tanking them with our massive heals.


The real problem is that our heals will NOT scale like this at level 90.

I fear that feral will be much like 4.3 rets (offensively, not defensive WoG support), in that you blow all your cds, then sit around twiddling your thumbs for 2.5 minutes.

In addition, resto certainly looks to be restored to its previous glory... and boomkin may have gotten enough love to be dominant as well. It's pretty well documented that blizz is terrible at making all specs viable, and feral might be the one to go.

Do note, I did not play on beta so I do not know how everything scales...

Displacer Beast. Why couldn't we get something more in line with the Priest's Spectral Guise so at least enemies lose target and pets don't pop us back out instantly!!!


I strongly expect shadow priest spectral guise and fade to be nerfed, and for Displacer Beast to get another small buff.
Edited by Majinandy on 9/17/2012 5:30 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
8155
Don't forget the power of symbiosis - if it remains usable in arena it is going to significantly change things.
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90 Tauren Druid
0
09/17/2012 05:06 PMPosted by Katerian
I'd like to know what you think of savage roar, our talents overall, our cd reliance, and how you feel about our limited use of bear form now?


What I like most about Savage Roar is the ability to effectively manage it will really start to allow the cream to rise to the top. There are times when I’ll have popped all of my CDs and I’m going to town and the numbers just don’t seem right. Sure enough, forgot about SR and let it lapse. >,< Those moments are becoming fewer and fewer as I practice but for many, it will never become second nature.

Honestly, this may sound ridiculous but at this point the game continues to travel down the path of least resistance. If Blizzard feels it necessary to add some in, I’m all for it. Lets raise the skill cap a bit, not to lock out the general player base, but more so to allow the upper end to shine a bit brighter. I was beginning to feel that Feral Druids were all lumped into one big FOTM group.

All that said, the ability isn’t difficult to manage but more of a nuisance really. The dedicated Feral will adapt and continue to shred a path to victory all the same.

I do miss all of the shifting for clones, heals, bashes. But being able to cast instant abilities in form is proving to be amazing. So many GCDs saved while CC’ing in battle. My effective uptime on a target increased quite a bit as a result and I’m excited for that. Bear form is pretty much there for a root charge at this point. And for circle dancing a corpse, obviously. : )

09/17/2012 05:06 PMPosted by Katerian
As to our CD reliance: We have some of the most powerful cooldowns in the game, especially when used together in a situation we can avoid getting CC'd out of them.


This lends towards my previous point about upping the skill cap a bit on the Feral. I like having to think about which CD is appropriate for what / how much damage is incoming. I can stay kitty, keep the pressure up and not have to rely on a non-vengeance bear form to tank my way through it. Once again, I feel that adding complexity will only help to widen the gap between kittens and Ferals.
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90 Tauren Druid
0
09/17/2012 05:20 PMPosted by Chôsin
I found incarnation to be a energy sink, so I sacrificed it for SoF.


I love it for dumping energy while Berzerk. I know the process of setting up optimal burst can be daunting, but well worth it. SoF was included in my build at one point but once I became comfortable with the CDs at hand, I added Incarnation and haven't looked back once.

The real problem is that our heals will NOT scale like this at level 90.I fear that feral will be much like 4.3 rets (offensively, not defensive WoG support), in that you blow all your cds, then sit around twiddling your thumbs for 2.5 minutes.


Feral already felt like that in Cata to me. Every 30 I have some small burst, but every 3 minutes I can crank it. Don't get me wrong, our bleed/shred damage was plenty to keep pressure up outside of CDs but without TF up I just felt like I was waiting.

If anything we will fall back into more of a support role in arenas- more or less how Rogues were in late Cata. Stick on the healer, stun that guy, clone that guy, knock that guy off into the sewers, etc.

As for the heals, I have no illusions that I'll be able to NS>HT myself for 90% of my pool at L90. We lost a great deal of solo survivability, no doubt, but we'll have to wait to see how our CDs will mesh with the capped out heals. It's my understanding that PvP Power will increase our healing ouput in PvP senarios. Imagine how much PvP Power we'll have at 90. Could really stand up for itself, we'll have to wait and see.
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100 Worgen Druid
9570
I just started to play feral, looking forward to it in MoP. Few questions however.

Do you prioritize savage roar over everything else? Silly question maybe.

I really like our combat movement/utility atm, I can stay on target for days, or get away with ease.

Another question! Any add ons you prefer? :P
Finally, what would you prioritize for stats?
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94 Tauren Druid
6565
I just started to play feral, looking forward to it in MoP. Few questions however.

Do you prioritize savage roar over everything else? Silly question maybe.

I really like our combat movement/utility atm, I can stay on target for days, or get away with ease.

Another question! Any add ons you prefer? :P
Finally, what would you prioritize for stats?


I just did a calculation, this is how it goes:
If rip and savage roar are off the target.
If you have 0,1,2 CPS
Then you should spend them on Savage Roar, then build to Rip.
otherwise, build to 5cps and Rip.

You should never wait for a 5cp SR, when there is no rip on the target.

As for stats... I still haven't had a chance to do the PvP vs Agility calculations... on account of not having up to date equations.
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90 Tauren Druid
13545
I'm a huge SOTF fan for feral. One problem I've always had with the spec is horrible energy regen. A possible 20 energy return every finisher is just bloody amazing imo.

Also I forget, can you clone psyfiend?
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100 Worgen Druid
13345
The way I did it in WOTLK, I had SR macro'd into pounce. I'd stun, hit it again and get a 1pt SR, and then proceed to do my work getting debuffs and bleeds up. I still have that macro. I actually missed the playstyle, but I'm having a lot of trouble getting used to it again. I need to get back in the habit of watching that buff. Much like powershifting (gotta get back in the habit of mashing that button also)

09/18/2012 02:01 AMPosted by Dorkyboypwns
Any advice for fighting SHADOW PRIESTS without incarnation?


You know, I found that Cenarion Ward actually works great against spriests when they start that ridiculous cc chain on you. Otherwise, heal yourself all the time and the duel will last forever. If you don't, you lose. I don't know how to win against a competent one.

Spammer- I have SOTF also. I may take incarnation if I run my old stealthcleave in 3's next season for the burst window, but I hated my energy regen and I don't see why more people didn't take the talent. All I see on these forums are people complaining about energy and the fact they can only kill in their burst windows with cds. It only makes sense to get more energy.

and I think you can clone psyfiend. you can interrupt/gouge it I know.
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90 Goblin Priest
4325
Im really loving the tips here but Im am just completely well quite frustrated with Feral right now. I feel as if I am a decent player and all the above I use and apply theres only ONE problem with that....Well at least in reg Bg's ....Your mitigation damage and Cd's are horrible when compared to any other of my toons. I keep seeing this playstyle as if you guys are only fighting one person at a time and not getting stun / feared right out of any rotation you had to bring a target down. CAT regardless of heals surviv / 3min cd /barksin is just TOO SQUISHY!

I have played probably 60 bg's thus far as feral, keep adjusting and this is just a HUGE glaring problem, We need some sorta of immune to fear /stuns. I can't really stress enough how i do a great amount of damage but I just can't finish anything without my toon flying all over the map / then stunned.

IMO we are very very situational right now with CD's burst and damage mitigation. Sorry I may be a kitty then but feral is weak ATM regardless of all the great tools we think we have!
Edited by Satress on 9/18/2012 8:47 AM PDT
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94 Tauren Druid
6565
@Urth you can use Savage Roar while stealthed. So you want to get it up before pounce, now. And welcome back.
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90 Troll Druid
7095
Im really loving the tips here but Im am just completely well quite frustrated with Feral right now. I feel as if I am a decent player and all the above I use and apply theres only ONE problem with that....Well at least in reg Bg's ....Your mitigation damage and Cd's are horrible when compared to any other of my toons. I keep seeing this playstyle as if you guys are only fighting one person at a time and not getting stun / feared right out of any rotation you had to bring a target down. CAT regardless of heals surviv / 3min cd /barksin is just TOO SQUISHY!

I have played probably 60 bg's thus far as feral, keep adjusting and this is just a HUGE glaring problem, We need some sorta of immune to fear /stuns. I can't really stress enough how i do a great amount of damage but I just can't finish anything without my toon flying all over the map / then stunned.

IMO we are very very situational right now with CD's burst and damage mitigation. Sorry I may be a kitty then but feral is weak ATM regardless of all the great tools we think we have!


With the way damage is scaled right now its going to be like that. You have to be more aware of the fights you go into and you location for LoS for caster and mit CD for melee now. We cannot rely on bear form for oh !@#$ mode. Constant healing will help alot. If I have a PS and dont need to CC i usually pop a HT on me. I try to keep myself topped off at all times. We dont have the tools other classes have and Blizz made it a point to separate our ability to live into it's own spec. Now we have to rely on CC, Kiting, and healing in between.
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90 Tauren Druid
0
09/17/2012 10:56 PMPosted by Tokiwa
Do you prioritize savage roar over everything else? Silly question maybe.

There are no stupid questions. There are, however, plenty of inquisitive idiots. : ) I'm totally kidding, I just love that quote. In short, SR must be up at all times you plan on doing any damage.

Another question! Any add ons you prefer? :P Finally, what would you prioritize for stats?

My primary addons are:
Dominos
Xperl
Gladius
DiminishingReturns
LoseControl
VileCooldowns
Predatory Swiftness Tracker
Bad Kitty

Stat priority is up in the air at this point. My guess will be full Agi on the gear, of course, with either full Agi gemming or a blend of PvP power to up our healing output. Agi will always be our best stat for all of the additional bonuses it provides for us. It will just take some time to work out how necessary PvP power will actually be.

09/18/2012 02:01 AMPosted by Dorkyboypwns
Any advice for fighting SHADOW PRIESTS without incarnation?


It was said before on these forums. An equally skilled Shadow Priest duel should never end. You won't OOM, they won't OOM and you'll both be topped off constantly. All it takes is a full fear for them to completely reset. Lesser skilled SPriests can be real pushovers, but the ones who have discovered how powerful an off healer they are currently can be an exercise in futility.

My best advice is to wait for RNG to favor you. If you have a trinket up, they have disperse down and you resist a fear... you may have a very, very small window to score a kill.

I'm a huge SOTF fan for feral. One problem I've always had with the spec is horrible energy regen. A possible 20 energy return every finisher is just bloody amazing imo. Also I forget, can you clone psyfiend?


I feel the amount of energy regen you have is a very personal preference sort of thing. Sure, you can't deny having tons of regen would be awesome, but learning to manage your resources as they stand can open up options. Personally, I've adapted to my current regen and I feel fairly able to accomplish what I set out to do. Always keep an eye on that yellow bar and practice pooling.

And yes, you can fully CC Psyfiend.

09/18/2012 08:43 AMPosted by Satress
I have played probably 60 bg's thus far as feral, keep adjusting and this is just a HUGE glaring problem, We need some sorta of immune to fear /stuns. I can't really stress enough how i do a great amount of damage but I just can't finish anything without my toon flying all over the map / then stunned


A well planned / timed CC chain is impossible for anyone to counter. I monitor so many CDs when I’m deciding who gets my precious PS procs. If I know a healer’s trinket is down and they just ate a full fear, I’ll bear charge the last 2 seconds of the fear, bash then follow up with Clone x 3 to a etc, etc. I’m not the only one out there looking for opportunities to ruin your life.
As for being able to finish someone off… With how vulnerable we are to fears and stuns you have to be absolutely aware of your surrounding enemies. If you see classes that can both stun and fear you, it may not be a good time to open up. If you see all stun or all fear based classes and you have trinket up, get in there, draw the first fear/stun and eat it with barkskin if you can, if not trinket and go to work. I typically never pop dps cds unless I have a trinket to keep me on target. There are few things worse than staring at a big, red cat dancing on the screen out of your control. : /
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