Ask a Feral PvP'er!

90 Night Elf Druid
5860
So, basically you're saying it was used as a defensive ability, perhaps in an, “oh crap” moment? Otherwise you’d rather have your maneuverability, utility and damage increased by staying in cat form?

I get it now…


I see what you did there

+1[/quote]

I'm glad you guys enjoy rubbing each other so much. Ironic that the point was that it wasn't simply a defensive CD. That it was a distinct change in tactics complete with new priorities and statistics. Both of you read at a 3rd grade level.
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90 Troll Druid
8345
How to derail a thread:

Step 1. Say something

Step 2. Flamers take over.

Step 3. Make SURE to do your responses in not just ONE post, but 2-3.

Thank you guys for turning a constructive "Ask an epic Feral Druid for advice and whatnot" thread into a flame war.

Cut it out children..
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90 Night Elf Druid
5860
How to derail a thread:

Step 1. Say something

Step 2. Flamers take over.

Step 3. Make SURE to do your responses in not just ONE post, but 2-3.

Thank you guys for turning a constructive "Ask an epic Feral Druid for advice and whatnot" thread into a flame war.

Cut it out children..


Step 4. Profit
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I'm glad you guys enjoy rubbing each other so much. Ironic that the point was that it wasn't simply a defensive CD.

Unless you were feral charge rooting someone, using it for the 14/15s cd (vs. cat's 28/30s), bear bashing someone, demo roar, or the very rare ranged kb with FFF, it was a defensive cd that had no cd. In all those cases you were in the form for 2 or 3 gcds max, unless you got lucky and ate a stun in it (in which case - defensive cd).

Because going bear for any other reason was a pointless exercise. Other than the utility I listed, the only thing bear had going for it over cat is that it was far more durable. I include guarding a node as a defensive cd. The only reason you didn't do it in cat is because you'd get roflstomped in cat form while trying to guard while being focused by 3+ people.

Good groups wouldn't focus a bear. They'd put out enough pressure to force your cds, then ignore you until they expired, then pound you into the dirt, or keep just enough damage up to keep you in bear and neuter yourself.

If you try and say that bear damage wasn't bad, I'm going to laugh at you. This includes the time previous to vengeance being nerfed. Only thing you were killing in bear with vengeance was bads. The only time you should need help with that is if you were outnumbered, and we're back to being a defensive cd.
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90 Tauren Druid
10790
How do you feel about our survivability being based mainly around self- used Healing Touches through pred swiftness?I feel like every proc i'm using as a self heal is one less Cyclone i could be putting out =/ Which really turns me off to Feral honestly...


I think the amount of PS procs we’ll need to pump into healing will decrease as damage output from enemies begins to balance out as we reach L90. It will all come down to a shift in damage that will allow us to use them more offensively. Time will tell on this one.

On a side note, I was running with a healer a couple of nights ago and found I was sitting on PS procs just waiting for something to burn them on. I actually let a few expire! /gasp

09/18/2012 11:33 AMPosted by Nagoto
How do you think this will affect us at higher (2.3-2.4k+) rated 3s?


To be fair, I do not have that experience in 3’s and cannot speak to that personally. My speculation is you’ll see the tag-team of Feral and DPriest hanging out in all 3 brackets. Unless some sort of triple DPS option opens up at L90.

09/18/2012 11:33 AMPosted by Nagoto
Will we be focused more on damage and less on our CC?


I’m actually feeling we’ll be moving towards more of a CC role with small windows of burst. Much like Rogue was in past seasons.

09/18/2012 11:33 AMPosted by Nagoto
Do you think we will be tunneled more?


Yes, I do. Folks will get it in their heads that without bear form CDs we are sitting ducks. With current damage output that may feel like the case but I have hope that we’ll round out to be tanky enough at level cap.

09/18/2012 11:33 AMPosted by Nagoto
If yes ^ how do you feel we should deal with it?


Stay near your favorite healer, of course. : ) The good news that everyone seems to hate is we are SUPER mobile now. We don’t have a real Vanish, but I’ll take 9,001% speed any day.

09/18/2012 11:33 AMPosted by Nagoto
What comps do you see being viable next season? The normal: Jungle Cleave, Kitty Cleave, Ebola Cleave and Thomas Edison Cleave?


I think the tried and true comps will still be viable to a certain point. I’ll be looking to run the classics first to see where they stand and then move into some hybrids.

09/18/2012 11:33 AMPosted by Nagoto
How do you feel we will synergies with Monks? Windwalker or Mistweaver?


Monks, from reports given to me by a close friend testing one, seem to have the longest ramp time for damage output currently. If we are going to fall into the support role, we won’t be able to afford a slow ramping DPS to fight beside us. Not saying that it won’t work, but there is a degree of buildup needed by the Feral to dish out maximum carnage as well. Finding the correct timing to unleash both at the same time could prove challenging.

It’s also my understanding that the healing role filled by a Monk is not feeling very solid for PvP healing at the moment. Soooooo much testing to be done before any real statements could be made here.

09/18/2012 11:33 AMPosted by Nagoto
Do you feel Symbiosis will greatly affect what comps we run? Or will it just be a nice addition to already viable comps?


I think it’s going to be more of a bonus. Disc/Feral 2’s will remain strong with an additional defensive CD for us. One quick example, but I don’t feel it will make or break too many comps unless you start adding in a Rogue or Warlock. Redirects could really make things interesting. More for your comp question, I think RLS may lend a bit more towards Feral / Lock / Shammy this upcoming season.

09/18/2012 11:33 AMPosted by Nagoto
What secondary stat are you going to be stacking next season?


Too soon to tell, sadly. If now is any indicator I’ll be trying to strike a balance between Crit rating and Mastery.

09/18/2012 11:33 AMPosted by Nagoto
Will PvP power be better than straight agi?


Much like the balance between Crit and Mastery, such will be the balance between PvP Power and Agi. Do you want to up your damage, crit and dodge? Would you rather sac some of those secondary stats and increase your healing output as well as your damage? Most of this will be easier once we see exactly how tanky we really are at L90.

09/18/2012 11:33 AMPosted by Nagoto
Expertises cap / hit cap worth it?


Not really worth it in PvP is what I’m thinking at the moment. Hit cap is so low that it will be easy to obtain. Expertise… I just don’t see it happening.

What glyphs are you going to be taking for threes?'' Talents? If talents are situational for you, when would you take which?


My glyphs feel pretty solid at the moment. I don’t foresee changing any of them unless a comp I’m not envisioning running comes up, which is likely. I rock Cat, Barkskin and Savage Roar.
I’m using a 31323 build right now and it’s perfect for me in BGs / Duels. Mostly solo play with a healer and Fire Mage tossed in there for grins and giggles.

T1 – Wild Charge is a staple.

T2 – NS is so strong for offense and defense it will be hard to let go. I’ll be watching Renewal and CW to see how their healing stacks up against the utility of NS as I level.

T3 – Typhoon is a clear winner here for nearly every situation I can think of in competitive PvP scenarios.

T4 – Incarnation is going to remain supreme here for me most likely. I love being able to have trees, but another stun is something I’m not sure is best to work into my bag of tricks. Having a ranged stun is killer, but having a DPS CD that can kill is even more killer-er. SoTF… when I feel I need more energy, I’ll call you. I promise, baby!

T5 – I like having Mighty Bash on tap to conserve Combo Points and Energy while setting up burst. Can’t see that going away unless I run a bunch of Kitty Cleave and pick up DRoar for peeling for my healer while the War works with stun DRs. There's always Maim in a pinch.

T6 – I’ll need to see how much healing we’ll be weaving to see if DoC is worth it as a modifier. Honestly, they all look tasty in their own regard. We’ll have to see how they play out in the L90 game.

09/18/2012 11:33 AMPosted by Nagoto
Ok that is it for now XD


For now?! >,<
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90 Troll Druid
8345
Thanks for the responses dude! Gave me a bit to think about =3

For now?! >,<


Soon. TM
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90 Goblin Priest
4325
09/18/2012 01:14 PMPosted by Baezle
I'm glad you guys enjoy rubbing each other so much. Ironic that the point was that it wasn't simply a defensive CD.

Unless you were feral charge rooting someone, using it for the 14/15s cd (vs. cat's 28/30s), bear bashing someone, demo roar, or the very rare ranged kb with FFF, it was a defensive cd that had no cd. In all those cases you were in the form for 2 or 3 gcds max, unless you got lucky and ate a stun in it (in which case - defensive cd).

Because going bear for any other reason was a pointless exercise. Other than the utility I listed, the only thing bear had going for it over cat is that it was far more durable. I include guarding a node as a defensive cd. The only reason you didn't do it in cat is because you'd get roflstomped in cat form while trying to guard while being focused by 3+ people.

Good groups wouldn't focus a bear. They'd put out enough pressure to force your cds, then ignore you until they expired, then pound you into the dirt, or keep just enough damage up to keep you in bear and neuter yourself.

If you try and say that bear damage wasn't bad, I'm going to laugh at you. This includes the time previous to vengeance being nerfed. Only thing you were killing in bear with vengeance was bads. The only time you should need help with that is if you were outnumbered, and we're back to being a defensive cd.


flag running was fun....using bear was a must for flag running! We can't do that now, my S priest tanks better then feral in any form...see the problem here.? apparently not.
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90 Troll Druid
8435
09/17/2012 03:42 PMPosted by Clay
I think the class has become stronger but significantly more difficult.

Quite the opposite. Playing Feral well back in Wrath took much more skill than it does nowadays. PvE and especially PvP.
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flag running was fun....using bear was a must for flag running! We can't do that now, my S priest tanks better then feral in any form...see the problem here.? apparently not.

From what I understand of the current game, none of the tank specs are particularly good at flag running, except possibly a blood dk.

Feral is not a tank spec anymore and being able to be a dps and a tank in one spec was a bit over the top. I enjoyed it, I argued against its split, but I can see from a more neutral point of view why it happened.

And comparing any dps spec to a shadow priest right now isn't productive. Shadow priests are over the top at 85.
Edited by Baezle on 9/18/2012 3:55 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
15075
flag running was fun....using bear was a must for flag running! We can't do that now, my S priest tanks better then feral in any form...see the problem here.? apparently not.

Game not balanced for twinks.

Never has been, never will be.

09/18/2012 03:52 PMPosted by Baezle
From what I understand of the current game, none of the tank specs are particularly good at flag running, except possibly a blood dk.

If you meant when 85 PVP was current, a good Prot Warr was a decent substitute for a Blood DK. Druids ranked the lowest of the low (about equal with Prot Pallys) in high lvl (2k - 2.2k+) RBGs.

At 90, I don't really see this changing for the druid. In order to stay alive, we NEED the 45% Dodge from SD. To keep up rage, we need to hit things. Basically, just send the ranged in to kite and kill off the bear while your FC sits on the node, and you're golden. DKs can tap a target 1x to regen life. Pallys also need HP to use their CDs (but they aren't - to my extremely limited knowledge - as dependent on keeping 1 buff up as Druids are for SD), and Warrs need Rage, but I'm less familiar with them. Because they get Dodge, Parry, and Block automagically, I can't imagine that they're as squishy without 1 buff. (But I could be wrong, both my warr and pally are in their 40s, and I really haven't tanked on my pally since before they came up with HP.)
Edited by Taswind on 9/18/2012 6:12 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
11470
HOW THE F- DO I ARENA AS FERAL
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90 Night Elf Druid
15075
09/18/2012 06:21 PMPosted by Catwomán
HOW THE F- DO I ARENA AS FERAL

You wait until the arena season starts.
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If you meant when 85 PVP was current, a good Prot Warr was a decent substitute for a Blood DK. Druids ranked the lowest of the low (about equal with Prot Pallys) in high lvl (2k - 2.2k+) RBGs.

Nah, was talking about the 5.0.x patch. Although yeah, we weren't all that great in Cata either.
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85 Night Elf Druid
0
Several issues I see....
- We're over dependent on mid-range cds like Berserk,Trinket,Incarnation, and NV. For all the talk of how feral is now more difficult, I'd say that to a large degree it's become easier. The "difficulty" is more about clunkiness of keeping SR up.
- HT will not heal for as much as it does now at 90 -- even so, I've been expecting a nerf to it since 5.0 went live
- So feral is basically like Ret paladins without plate, no bubble, and no WoG. That's a little disconcerting.
- Symbiosis will be game-breaking and will go through some kind of cycle
- Glyphs -- Barkskin, +20% healing, and Savage all seem mandatory. I'd love to pick up Prowl for convenience, or Pounce (lag can be really annoying), or experiment with FF silence. But that's not in the cards it seems. For all this talk of how glyphs and talents should be optional, there's no options.

Some questions I have...
- Most of this seems aimed at Arenas, but frankly I don't enjoy arena. Does anyone think feral will have a spot in RBGs? In 4.3, even Datah stated outright that feral was useless in RBGs. Anything we could do as cat, a rogue could do it better. And anything we could do as bear, a warrior could do it better. I was hoping he'd comment on RBGs in Arielle's podcast, but they also focused on just Arena. Does this mean we forsee Feral continuing to be a 2v2 / 3v3 hero and not wanted in RBGs?
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90 Worgen Druid
9735
I for one enjoy PvP more so now on my druid, I only tinkered with it before.

PS: Thank you for the advice!! I honestly am so pumped about pvp with my druid!!

I was actually thinking shammy/warr/druid... in 3's Wars have a huge amount of combat movement/stuns at 90, and well shaman because my friend mains one.

Is anyone actually considering feral's in 5's?!

If mobility is a huge factor for druids, will skills like engineering really make the difference ?

Does anyone else feel like incarnation should give a slight % haste/energy regen? Or is it just me, I love the talent don't get me wrong. I was just thinking of what could make it slightly better but not too over the top. Maybe even a little reduce % damage, so its not only a offensive cd?

I've always been a war at heart, played one since Vanilla and always considered druids being the "wish i could put the time into making one" class. Now that I have and they have been considered "nerfed" by a few "ol' school vanilla players". I am still going to play my druid, simply because... I enjoy it. FOTM has never been my style.

But... a dwarf with Avatar and a macro to /yell FOR KHAZ MODAN. (TG 2h axe, 2h mace of course) Has to happen.
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85 Night Elf Druid
0
At 90, I don't really see this changing for the druid. In order to stay alive, we NEED the 45% Dodge from SD. To keep up rage, we need to hit things. Basically, just send the ranged in to kite and kill off the bear while your FC sits on the node, and you're golden. DKs can tap a target 1x to regen life. Pallys also need HP to use their CDs (but they aren't - to my extremely limited knowledge - as dependent on keeping 1 buff up as Druids are for SD), and Warrs need Rage, but I'm less familiar with them. Because they get Dodge, Parry, and Block automagically, I can't imagine that they're as squishy without 1 buff. (But I could be wrong, both my warr and pally are in their 40s, and I really haven't tanked on my pally since before they came up with HP.)


It may be too soon to tell, but I think AM has kind of killed PVP tanking for the most part.
I'm kind of expecting locks to become RBG tanks.
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90 Worgen Druid
10575
To all of you guys complaining about SR, I agree. It sucks that we have to maintain it to operate at 100% as opposed to letting it fall and be at 70%. However, if you think its hard to manage now... it used to last only slightly longer at 5cps than it does now with 0 cp's and the glyph. It was very very difficult to maintain.

Yes, I feel its more difficult to do a 2v1 as feral than it is on a few of my other toons (big example is my OP shadowpriest alt). However, if you are able to 2v1 normal players with ease then your class/spec is not balanced.

This current playstyle was viable when we had a fear break/immunity with berserk and took 30% less damage while stunned in catform. Now, I do feel a lot more squishy but with classes like mages, priests, and hunters globaling people its really hard to tell if feral is weak in survival or if those other classes are just that overpowered. Its not fun dying to a pet by itself.

09/18/2012 08:48 AMPosted by Clay
@Urth you can use Savage Roar while stealthed. So you want to get it up before pounce, now. And welcome back.


I know you can, I actually meant to talk about that and I forgot. If I run my stealthcleave, I'll pick up incarnation. Pop a 0 cp SR from stealth, open with some ravage spam and a shadow dance and call it a day. And thanks :)
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90 Undead Warlock
6830
I have a few questions about comps and symbiosis i'd like to toss out. While you mentioned that the traditional feral comps will be strongest, i was wondering about triple dps. Thinking of an FMP with priest as shadow (if their current strengths with dps & off-healing scale to 90). Symbiosis gives me dispersion and priest gets tranquility (i think?).

Also feral/shadowpriest 2s?
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90 Troll Druid
8345
While you mentioned that the traditional feral comps will be strongest, i was wondering about triple dps.


Triple deeps is something that 100% #$%@s with the current meta of the game. What I mean is Trip deep should 100% NOT BE VIABLE. It really shouldn't =/ I hope The concept gets tunneled into the ground..

To put this into perspective last season I ran Ret ( Me, extremely intoxicated) rogue (in blue stam gems) Hunter (ruthless gear). We went 26:3. MMR from 1300 to 2k.... It's just.. -sigh-...
You smash BETTER teams you normally would NOT be able to out skill. It's frustrating.

-Grumbles and ends rant-...

In short you should NOT WANT to be able to run trip deeps. It's just one of those things where everyone will hate you for it.. and if you do somehow get a decent rating with it no one will take you seriously. You also get to a point where GOOD teams know how to deal with trip deeps and you will 100% hit a wall.

Just my 2C though...
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90 Night Elf Druid
9100
09/19/2012 06:19 AMPosted by Nagoto
While you mentioned that the traditional feral comps will be strongest, i was wondering about triple dps.


Triple deeps is something that 100% #$%@s with the current meta of the game. What I mean is Trip deep should 100% NOT BE VIABLE. It really shouldn't =/ I hope The concept gets tunneled into the ground..

To put this into perspective last season I ran Ret ( Me, extremely intoxicated) rogue (in blue stam gems) Hunter (ruthless gear). We went 26:3. MMR from 1300 to 2k.... It's just.. -sigh-...
You smash BETTER teams you normally would NOT be able to out skill. It's frustrating.

-Grumbles and ends rant-...

In short you should NOT WANT to be able to run trip deeps. It's just one of those things where everyone will hate you for it.. and if you do somehow get a decent rating with it no one will take you seriously. You also get to a point where GOOD teams know how to deal with trip deeps and you will 100% hit a wall.

Just my 2C though...


Like double blood DK when veng was broke. Yeah, if you ran that... SHAME
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