Ask a Feral PvP'er!

90 Troll Druid
8345
Like double blood DK when veng was broke. Yeah, if you ran that... SHAME

-Shudder-..

Fought them for 20min as Feral Rsham before we just left...

-Hiss-
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Druid
9100
Like double blood DK when veng was broke. Yeah, if you ran that... SHAME

-Shudder-..

Fought them for 20min as Feral Rsham before we just left...

-Hiss-


Yeah, I did feral/Hunter 2s, we fought plenty of double blood and sometimes won. Would just go HARD on one and down him, then I would help kite the other.

One game we kille one, and I was far away from the remaing DK healing up, got to full

Hunter: Reaver you good?
Reaver: Yeah let me just soothe him re-

DK: *Deathgrip SMACK SMACK*

I got 2 shot : /
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Druid
15895
Some questions I have...
- Most of this seems aimed at Arenas, but frankly I don't enjoy arena. Does anyone think feral will have a spot in RBGs? In 4.3, even Datah stated outright that feral was useless in RBGs. Anything we could do as cat, a rogue could do it better. And anything we could do as bear, a warrior could do it better. I was hoping he'd comment on RBGs in Arielle's podcast, but they also focused on just Arena. Does this mean we forsee Feral continuing to be a 2v2 / 3v3 hero and not wanted in RBGs?

I think it means more that its based on classes other than Feral. The reason that Feral was unwanted for RBGs had more to do with the fact that for DPS you stacked a bunch of Locks / Moonkin / S.Priests / Fire Mages, had 1 Blood DK (preferably one that could go Frost for non-FC maps), a Frost DK (for diseases, meshed well with the DOT classes), and a single Rogue for smokebomb. There just wasn't room for a Feral anywhere, and the only reason Rogues got their spot was because Smokebomb was such a good spell. If they didn't have it, their spot would probably have gone to another DOT class.

At present, we can't really tell what classes will be favored or viable until people start playing with comps at max level; there's just too many options in a 10man group to speculate, whereas 2s or 3s are a lot easier to see synergy.
Edited by Taswind on 9/19/2012 7:47 AM PDT
Reply Quote
92 Tauren Druid
6520
Several issues I see....
- We're over dependent on mid-range cds like Berserk,Trinket,Incarnation, and NV. For all the talk of how feral is now more difficult, I'd say that to a large degree it's become easier. The "difficulty" is more about clunkiness of keeping SR up.
- HT will not heal for as much as it does now at 90 -- even so, I've been expecting a nerf to it since 5.0 went live
- So feral is basically like Ret paladins without plate, no bubble, and no WoG. That's a little disconcerting.
- Symbiosis will be game-breaking and will go through some kind of cycle
- Glyphs -- Barkskin, +20% healing, and Savage all seem mandatory. I'd love to pick up Prowl for convenience, or Pounce (lag can be really annoying), or experiment with FF silence. But that's not in the cards it seems. For all this talk of how glyphs and talents should be optional, there's no options.

Some questions I have...
- Most of this seems aimed at Arenas, but frankly I don't enjoy arena. Does anyone think feral will have a spot in RBGs? In 4.3, even Datah stated outright that feral was useless in RBGs. Anything we could do as cat, a rogue could do it better. And anything we could do as bear, a warrior could do it better. I was hoping he'd comment on RBGs in Arielle's podcast, but they also focused on just Arena. Does this mean we forsee Feral continuing to be a 2v2 / 3v3 hero and not wanted in RBGs?


I know I'm a poor substitute for Datah's input, but I'll try to answer this as well as I can.

Datah said feral is useless in high level RBGs prepatch. That's not to say that a skilled feral couldn't find a place on RBG teams at a lower level play. And when Datah means a lower level of play, he means below 2400.

The biggest hurdle that ferals faced in finding RBG teams late cataclysm was that the metagame for PvP shifted really hard into everyone running dot-cleaves. Even 5s and 3s were being dominated by this style of play. This playstyle required dps classes that could put dots on many different targets, so: Affliction, Boomkin, Fire, and Shadow.

Do I expect this hurdle to exist in MoP? Well, it's hard to say. I honestly don't have a firm grasp on most of the classes yet. I have no idea how strong resilience will be a few tiers down the road. I also have no idea how well healers will be equipped to deal with dots. However, I can't think of any other point in the history of wow where dot-cleaves was so dominant. Because of that, I have no expectations that dot cleave will remain AS strong. If dot cleave remains dominant, and I wouldn't rule that out because multi-dotting scales really really well for BGs, then feral will have no place in high level RBGs. One thing to look out for: if you start to see dot classes dominating DPS charts in normal BGs, that's a clue as to the viability of multi-dotting as a team strategy.

If dot cleave isn't as strong:
Then "bring the player, not the class," will be in strong effect. In the last expansion there were a few apex abilities that really helped your team. Smokebomb was one of them. Solar Bream was another. Typhoon was too. But honestly, there were only a few abilities in play which were of that caliber of utility. There's plenty of room to on a team for just plain old: 'good damage and cc.' And feral will bring that.

As for bear. Unless the mechanics change, bear won't be any good for RBG tanking. I'm not sure how the other tanks or working, maybe they all suck... but bear definitely sucks hard enough that I would debate just running flags in cat... or even healer spec!

Also, since you love RBGs, you should race to hit level 90 fast. People won't really know what classes can do what and they'll be struggling to find level 90 players for their RBG teams. If you can be one of the first to hit level 90, you will have almost no problem having your pick of the active RBG teams. If you're skilled, you can make a name for yourself. Then, even if a few months down the road feral ends up being eclipsed by the meta-game, they will still look to you as a respectable backup option. YOU NEED TO DO THIS. I just armoried you. You have absolutely no competitive achievements. You'll get absolutely 0 respect. Being the early bird to 90 is your only hope of playing on a competitive RBG team before the end of the first season.
Reply Quote
92 Tauren Druid
6520
@Taswind:
Geez, you're so knowledgable.
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Druid
15895
@Taswind:
Geez, you're so knowledgable.

Meh - I get the basics. Yours was, as always, far more eloquent, in depth, and helpful. :P
Reply Quote
90 Goblin Priest
4325
Great points for sure. I'm really trying to keep an open mind for the most part. I think Feral will definitely see little love in RBG's. Utility wise maybe just maybe...but a rogue can still do what we can and simply better in most situations. I'm afraid I'll be part of the Dot cleave for now.

Several issues I see....
- We're over dependent on mid-range cds like Berserk,Trinket,Incarnation, and NV. For all the talk of how feral is now more difficult, I'd say that to a large degree it's become easier. The "difficulty" is more about clunkiness of keeping SR up.
- HT will not heal for as much as it does now at 90 -- even so, I've been expecting a nerf to it since 5.0 went live
- So feral is basically like Ret paladins without plate, no bubble, and no WoG. That's a little disconcerting.
- Symbiosis will be game-breaking and will go through some kind of cycle
- Glyphs -- Barkskin, +20% healing, and Savage all seem mandatory. I'd love to pick up Prowl for convenience, or Pounce (lag can be really annoying), or experiment with FF silence. But that's not in the cards it seems. For all this talk of how glyphs and talents should be optional, there's no options.

Some questions I have...
- Most of this seems aimed at Arenas, but frankly I don't enjoy arena. Does anyone think feral will have a spot in RBGs? In 4.3, even Datah stated outright that feral was useless in RBGs. Anything we could do as cat, a rogue could do it better. And anything we could do as bear, a warrior could do it better. I was hoping he'd comment on RBGs in Arielle's podcast, but they also focused on just Arena. Does this mean we forsee Feral continuing to be a 2v2 / 3v3 hero and not wanted in RBGs?


I know I'm a poor substitute for Datah's input, but I'll try to answer this as well as I can.

Datah said feral is useless in high level RBGs prepatch. That's not to say that a skilled feral couldn't find a place on RBG teams at a lower level play. And when Datah means a lower level of play, he means below 2400.

The biggest hurdle that ferals faced in finding RBG teams late cataclysm was that the metagame for PvP shifted really hard into everyone running dot-cleaves. Even 5s and 3s were being dominated by this style of play. This playstyle required dps classes that could put dots on many different targets, so: Affliction, Boomkin, Fire, and Shadow.

Do I expect this hurdle to exist in MoP? Well, it's hard to say. I honestly don't have a firm grasp on most of the classes yet. I have no idea how strong resilience will be a few tiers down the road. I also have no idea how well healers will be equipped to deal with dots. However, I can't think of any other point in the history of wow where dot-cleaves was so dominant. Because of that, I have no expectations that dot cleave will remain AS strong. If dot cleave remains dominant, and I wouldn't rule that out because multi-dotting scales really really well for BGs, then feral will have no place in high level RBGs. One thing to look out for: if you start to see dot classes dominating DPS charts in normal BGs, that's a clue as to the viability of multi-dotting as a team strategy.

If dot cleave isn't as strong:
Then "bring the player, not the class," will be in strong effect. In the last expansion there were a few apex abilities that really helped your team. Smokebomb was one of them. Solar Bream was another. Typhoon was too. But honestly, there were only a few abilities in play which were of that caliber of utility. There's plenty of room to on a team for just plain old: 'good damage and cc.' And feral will bring that.

As for bear. Unless the mechanics change, bear won't be any good for RBG tanking. I'm not sure how the other tanks or working, maybe they all suck... but bear definitely sucks hard enough that I would debate just running flags in cat... or even healer spec!

Also, since you love RBGs, you should race to hit level 90 fast. People won't really know what classes can do what and they'll be struggling to find level 90 players for their RBG teams. If you can be one of the first to hit level 90, you will have almost no problem having your pick of the active RBG teams. If you're skilled, you can make a name for yourself. Then, even if a few months down the road feral ends up being eclipsed by the meta-game, they will still look to you as a respectable backup option. YOU NEED TO DO THIS. I just armoried you. You have absolutely no competitive achievements. You'll get absolutely 0 respect. Being the early bird to 90 is your only hope of playing on a competitive RBG team before the end of the first season.
Reply Quote
90 Undead Warlock
6870
Sorry, i had no idea triple dps was so hated. Luckily i haven't run it. But what about feral/shpriest in 2s? I really don't want to do feral/disc even though i'm used to that. Prefer to avoid long !@# games.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
8345
But what about feral/shpriest in 2s? I really don't want to do feral/disc even though i'm used to that. Prefer to avoid long !@# games.


With the way Hybrid healing is now =P Long games are a given no matter what haha. Unless healing is drastically reduced at 90.
Reply Quote
85 Night Elf Druid
0
Also, since you love RBGs, you should race to hit level 90 fast. People won't really know what classes can do what and they'll be struggling to find level 90 players for their RBG teams. If you can be one of the first to hit level 90, you will have almost no problem having your pick of the active RBG teams. If you're skilled, you can make a name for yourself. Then, even if a few months down the road feral ends up being eclipsed by the meta-game, they will still look to you as a respectable backup option. YOU NEED TO DO THIS. I just armoried you. You have absolutely no competitive achievements. You'll get absolutely 0 respect. Being the early bird to 90 is your only hope of playing on a competitive RBG team before the end of the first season.


This is an alt I rolled so I can play with Balance/Resto without having to redo my entire UI every time. I also have acct wide achievements turned off.
That said, I haven't played arena since BC when I reached 1800 with a hunter in 2s. Even though it's a "low" rating, I'm somewhat proud of having accomplished it on 2 classes that were universally unwanted in arena at the time. I left the game during Wrath and came back mid-Cata.

I have no intention of racing to 90 or "making a name for myself". I don't view myself as an elite player, probably 1800 is about my skill level and I'm happy with that. And while what Datah said may have been aimed at elite players, it still greatly affects the meta-game and recruiting practices of the entire skill range.

Given the advice thus far, I'm thinking I'll focus more on another class for PVP and just stick to PVE and random BGs with my feral.
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Druid
0
Anyone else have any specific questions regarding the current state of Feral PvP?

I'll volunteer one of my current stealth openers as a topic jumping point. This can vary pending what CDs my opponent has available.

Prowl: Shh… hunting.

Savage Roar: Glyphed, of course. Pool energy to 100 while I’m in position to Ravage.

Ravage: Buffed by SR. Pounce is becoming far more situational for me and Ravage is becoming the dominant opener. I like the pressure I’m getting with Ravage currently plus I’m freeing up my stun DR.

Rake: Buffed by SR. Without the bleed from Pounce I need something to buff the Shreds that are incoming.

Shred: Buffed by SR and Rake.

Tiger’s Fury: I understand I miss the benefit of TF for Rake and 1 Shred but its more about a flowing opener using TF as an energy boost during this part of my rotation.

Shred: Buffed by SR, Rake and TF. I may need an additional one here pending the lack of crits.

Rip: 5-CP. Buffed by SR and TF. PS Proc typically goes to a HT unless I’m being guarded, then it’s a CC somewhere.

Savage Roar: You should beat the SR countdown for Rip by maybe 1-2 seconds - It’s very tight. Typically refreshed with 0 CP at this time due to the 5 point Rip I just landed.

This is my default, brain off random BG opening move. I find getting the bleeds out there ASAP can pull some defensives from my opponent and keep the pressure up. Now it becomes a game of keeping SR up, cycling a defensive if needed and keeping heals pumped into me via Rejuv, PS-HTs and NS-HTs.

I find that typically about the time my Rip is running out my Tiger’s Fury is coming back around and I’m in a good position to setup for my burst!
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
8345
Ravage: Buffed by SR. Pounce is becoming far more situational for me and Ravage is becoming the dominant opener. I like the pressure I’m getting with Ravage currently plus I’m freeing up my stun DR.


This is the only part I dislike :X You should have a Full Rip, Full Savage Roar, rake up AND enough energy (don't overcap energy) so you can Maim > Tigers Fury > CD BUTTON.

Maybe it's just me ^_^; I feel like DR is off once I get everything set up.

People sometimes trinket the Pounce as well out of fear >:)

But because you suggested it i now have to try it D:
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Druid
0
This is the only part I dislike :X You should have a Full Rip, Full Savage Roar, rake up AND enough energy (don't overcap energy) so you can Maim > Tigers Fury > CD BUTTON.Maybe it's just me ^_^; I feel like DR is off once I get everything set up.People sometimes trinket the Pounce as well out of fear >:)But because you suggested it i now have to try it D:


Well, keep in mind after that opener I have 30 seconds to kill, so to speak. That’s quite a bit of time to setup for my burst. In fact, it’s well enough time for stun to come off DR. I mentioned the stun DR as a reason, but mostly I like the direct damage of Ravage with an additional chance to crit on a target with over 80% HP giving me 2 combo points. It’s what allows me to get my full bleeds up in a single ~10 second Savage Roar duration after my opener.

Once you roll into your burst with TF, DPS Trinket, Zerk and Incarnation you’ll have all the combo points you can handle. So, you can now reapply your Rake and Rip with the benefit of at least your DPS Trinket if not Tiger’s Fury as well. If you have full bleeds and SR up you can burn that Stun DR to death with Maim at this point. Otherwise, the combo points and energy required to Maim doesn’t feel worth the cost.

Scoring a trinket out of the opener is an awesome bonus, but that’s not what this opener is about. Also, keeping the stun DR open can leave you the option of Stun > *ENEMY TRINKET* > NS-Clone if your enemy pops any big DPS CDs. At this time you’ve not burned any CDs over 1 minute but you have your target on the ropes. That’s a great combo that works pretty much every time and will often pull a bubble from a pissed off Pally.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Druid
12270
i think a better question is

HOW THE F- do I get 2200 as feral
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Druid
15895
i think a better question is

HOW THE F- do I get 2200 as feral

You wait for the arena season to open.
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Druid
0
i think a better question isHOW THE F- do I get 2200 as feral


Here's the inside scoop...
Spec Boomkin, score that 2.2k in RBGs then buy all of the Feral gear. Done!

Lol I feel like those who can’t do teach right now buuuuut… It’s all about finding synergy with players representing a viable comp.
I really like www.worldofwargraphs.com for comp/spec ideas.

Making friends with a DPriest is the first and foremost task. Run some 2’s, get really comfortable with each other. Once you’re feeling up to the challenge, add in either a Mage or Hunter for 3’s. Then it’s all about adding in the control of the variable and learning to time your bursts.

/shrug
Reply Quote
90 Goblin Priest
4325
on your opener below Im trying the same thing which ifind works really well if Im finding someone out of the fray and alone or not being noticed....other then that how are u staying behind a target for one to get 5cp's up...I am finding it 50/50 that i get that 5cp rip up without getting feared or stunned out .....and then at that point im not on my target. This is mostly where I see that im getting instantly targeted by any caster who sees me open....now if all my cd's are up I can pop and continue getting a wild charge in to get that rip up....but i find it extremely situational that by that time Im completely dotted up and well on my way to dying.....I dunno maybe im just terrible but and I really understand your opener it makes sense....but im just finding anything other then a lone or unnoticed caster out of the LOS of the combat fray Im quickly kill feed and forced to run...often enough ive popped barksin, survive is on cool down, and im just running away spamming rejuv with 4 or 5 dots on me.....

last night I even ran out of mana trying to get away from a lock....who just dotted me an easily watched me die...when i had no where to run but into more enemies...

I dunno man right now if im betting on arenasI see a strong change...but with the way other classes are bursting especially casters we are just very very squishy with an extremely tricky bleed set up.....I am right now just not good enough, all my stuff is keybound as well....with fears and stuns there's just no way right now I'm getting the kills I really want.

im trying to rely on target proc cyclones, but im seeing my !@# feared / stunned in allot of cases well before i get a 5cp rip.....? any suggestions?

Anyone else have any specific questions regarding the current state of Feral PvP?

I'll volunteer one of my current stealth openers as a topic jumping point. This can vary pending what CDs my opponent has available.

Prowl: Shh… hunting.

Savage Roar: Glyphed, of course. Pool energy to 100 while I’m in position to Ravage.

Ravage: Buffed by SR. Pounce is becoming far more situational for me and Ravage is becoming the dominant opener. I like the pressure I’m getting with Ravage currently plus I’m freeing up my stun DR.

Rake: Buffed by SR. Without the bleed from Pounce I need something to buff the Shreds that are incoming.

Shred: Buffed by SR and Rake.

Tiger’s Fury: I understand I miss the benefit of TF for Rake and 1 Shred but its more about a flowing opener using TF as an energy boost during this part of my rotation.

Shred: Buffed by SR, Rake and TF. I may need an additional one here pending the lack of crits.

Rip: 5-CP. Buffed by SR and TF. PS Proc typically goes to a HT unless I’m being guarded, then it’s a CC somewhere.

Savage Roar: You should beat the SR countdown for Rip by maybe 1-2 seconds - It’s very tight. Typically refreshed with 0 CP at this time due to the 5 point Rip I just landed.

This is my default, brain off random BG opening move. I find getting the bleeds out there ASAP can pull some defensives from my opponent and keep the pressure up. Now it becomes a game of keeping SR up, cycling a defensive if needed and keeping heals pumped into me via Rejuv, PS-HTs and NS-HTs.

I find that typically about the time my Rip is running out my Tiger’s Fury is coming back around and I’m in a good position to setup for my burst!
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Druid
7790
I find that ferals new order of mechanics that have to be dealt with make them kind of clunky and their skill roof has gone through the roof.

I was a 1800-1900 feral in last season fully agil/mastery spec for powerful bleeds.

With burst tested on a dummy my "oneshotmacro" was actually more potent then that of a ret with wings.

What I find now is that with the new mechanics of no longer having the mangle debuff our damage is nerfed because of the combo point usage now. I am not saying we can't do damage but I am saying we have a bit of Rev up time now to do significant damage. Also correct me if I am wrong but Savage roar is dispellable is it not with hunter tranq shot? We are in a technically worse spot then we were before.

Also the overall survivability has been nerfed (as it should have been) but IMO too much. we still have SI we can off heal, and we still get instant cast heals now without leaving form however.... the heal over time with the loss of lifebloom and the cost of using it with it being dispellable and it being able to get stolen by mages makes it impracticable. Also a few good mages will make it incredibly hard to use instant cast unless your amazing at using it as soon as its up to just take off the buff even if at full life and don't need to cyclone don't give a mage a free spell that should be casted, its just a bad idea, however using it uses a GCD and forces you into using it sometime to just prevent it being used against you.

On top of this dodge chance has been dropped in cat form drastically to about 20% or so, we cannot parry. We now take alot more damage from melee in general because we are getting hit alot more while some classes parry chance is now up to 30% or more making it harder for us to fight them. Bear form was the needed nerf but the rest has just been to try to break ferals it feels.

I don't understand the overall removal of the bleed debuff from the game, I just don't know how they would destroy the one class/spec that truly needs bleeds as 80% of their damage.

Going resto now, I have been practicing it sense the launch of 5.0 but it was a forced change just out of viability and what is working even at the lvl 90 cap in the beta feral was sub par against alot of classes.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
8345
<- 2.2k Kitty / Jungle / Ebola cleave S10 =^_^=

Cyclone cyclone cyclone cyclone

EDIT:

Should i do one of these for balance? O_O;
Edited by Nagoto on 9/20/2012 9:36 AM PDT
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]