the legend of Rathamus

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100 Undead Warrior
14125
I pity those people that have to wait in 30+ min premade Q's for the worst BG in the game because they can't get wins any where else.

@thepleb. You are ravaging the english language. Please stop.

Maybe you would understand if i typed it like this.

Pleb, sentences have things
like nouns and verbs. Please learn
to use them correctly.

We aren't
typing poems.

Please use proper grammer.

Iambic pentameter
doesn't matter when you are trying to communicate


@ you.

ahhh. yes. how delightful.
the steady cadence of your tears
is the poetry that sustains me.

first. a trickle. then. a steady flow.
before long, a river.

i drink from this river.
i dine upon your flesh.
your bones are the jewelry with
which i adorn myself.

i am nourished, and yo, check out my bling bling.

Cheers.
Pleb.
Edited by Theplebian on 9/23/2012 10:18 AM PDT
100 Undead Warrior
14125
The strat works well with pugs, you do not need vent or premade or anything. Of course you will not get to do the march of death or the fun part at the end, but if you can get your pug to execute for 5 minutes, you will have a 2 tower advantage and a win if they can follow through.

I spam this sometimes - its the pug-friendly version

1) Melees and most Healers to Galv - HEAL galv - cyclone/cc tank. After wiping them, clear IB/TP/Keep and leave a group at each then ride north. Need high-resil plate in towers with 1 healer per - this is key to our victory. Dont forget our mine.

2) All Ranged DPS and a couple healers - Get SHGY,SHB,IWB but SET UP CHOKE POINT at IWB FIRST. Nothing goes by - mages/hunters this is you. Do NOT go north until south is clear and choke secure.

3) Rogues/ferals - go straight to DB.

4) After the choke is secure we can farm them (yes) or try to march on the keep (probably fail) - up to you guys. We win either way as long as we hold the choke. Jiu-jitsu!


right on Meila !
pug or premade it's those like you that improve
the state of the battleground.

Cheers.
Pleb.
90 Goblin Hunter
6785
You win because you're all on vent together and your opponents just met two minutes before the gate opened. That is all there is to your 'strategy'. What you do and when you do it matters far less than the disparity between the coordination that's possible in a premade versus what's possible in a pug. Why else would there be such a great difference between your record facing pugs, and what happens on the rare occasions when you fight another premade?

You are pub stompers. Don't lie to yourself.


That statement would hold water if there was a difference between my record facing pugs and when facing premades. Unfortunately for your argument they are one and the same. Sure I've faced more pugs than premades. Win percentage is still the same. 142 wins and counting...
Edited by Stokely on 9/23/2012 10:07 AM PDT
100 Human Priest
19570
You win because you're all on vent together and your opponents just met two minutes before the gate opened. That is all there is to your 'strategy'. What you do and when you do it matters far less than the disparity between the coordination that's possible in a premade versus what's possible in a pug. Why else would there be such a great difference between your record facing pugs, and what happens on the rare occasions when you fight another premade?

You are pub stompers. Don't lie to yourself.


That statement would hold water if there was a difference between my record facing pugs and when facing premades. Unfortunately for your argument they are one and the same. 142 wins and counting...
Whatever you say, but last I heard OpenRaid was 5/0 against you guys. Either way, please don't even try to pretend that there's any challenge in winning against a pug in a 40 man premade. We both know that's simply not true.
100 Undead Warrior
14125


you are persistent aren't you.
i'm reminded of a fun AV not so very long ago.
a very memorable and energetic alliance player
simply would not give up no matter how pointless
his assertions were. Massivepeen, you are well remembered
and a part of the rath strat stories told around our campfires.

Cheers.
Pleb.
"Persistant?" What, because I don't read one of your ill-reasoned posts and say "oh, he says he's not a cheater, I guess it must be true"?

09/23/2012 08:59 AMPosted by Stokely
Lots of skill in Rath strat. If anyone spends a few minutes at looking at the strat and how it achieves it's success, they would see that it rests on the backs of those that defend. There are a few individuals that give up all the HKs and extra honor that is gained from being on the northern push and instead take residence in the south end of the field, ensuring that none of the horde assets are lost. As a person that volunteers for this role more often than not, I spend most of my fights 1 on 1. That is the skill and raw pvp that allows the strategy to succeed.
Incorrect. You don't win because a few people defend. People defend in pug games as well. You win because you're all on vent together and your opponents just met two minutes before the gate opened. That is all there is to your 'strategy'. What you do and when you do it matters far less than the disparity between the coordination that's possible in a premade versus what's possible in a pug. Why else would there be such a great difference between your record facing pugs, and what happens on the rare occasions when you fight another premade?

You are pub stompers. Don't lie to yourself.


Pub Stompers.
what is this? a celebratory celtic type barroom dance upon
the bodies in effigy of the defeated? hmm... yes, a very
good idea you have there. thank you.

you clearly do not understand the rath strat and fail
to appreciate the community around it. it's not the
only game in town and many other premades, alliance
and horde alike, also have a community where people
gather to enjoy the game, and win battlegrounds.

i cannot tell if your disconnect is genuine or if you're
just on a crusading rampage.

Cheers.
Pleb.


you will find no solace here.
you can, however, take refuge by
standing next to Vann.

Cheers.
Pleb.


I'm not looking for solace. I find your groups to be anything but competitive. I also understand they're not intended to be competitive so anyone playing them off as such is either a fool or delusional. You're grievers. I've accepted that. You should too.
100 Undead Warrior
14125


you will find no solace here.
you can, however, take refuge by
standing next to Vann.

Cheers.
Pleb.


I'm not looking for solace. I find your groups to be anything but competitive. I also understand they're not intended to be competitive so anyone playing them off as such is either a fool or delusional. You're grievers. I've accepted that. You should too.


because you lost you've been griefed and because we
won we must have cheated. funny though, isn't it,
that when the alliance premades do the same there's
nary a peep that accuses them of such things.

be involved with premade bg's. that choice is only closed to
you if you want it to be. have some fun. enjoy the
faction friction in the story line. there's no reason not to.

Cheers.
Pleb.
85 Tauren Priest
3880
"" The good fighters of old first put themselves beyond the possibility of defeat, and then waited for an opportunity of defeating the enemy. "" - Sun Tzu

Perhaps there is an alternative to continually losing to a particular group of Horde players who know what they're doing and play to win in AV:

Admit, publicly or privately, that Alterac Valley belongs to the Horde.

That's all you have to do.

That way, when you sign up for AV either directly or draw it as a random, realize there is a chance you may be totally humiliated and just learn to live with it when it happens.

"" The warrior does not care if he is called a beast or a dog; the main thing is winning. ""
- Asakura Norikage, samurai, 1474-1555
100 Human Priest
19570


I'm not looking for solace. I find your groups to be anything but competitive. I also understand they're not intended to be competitive so anyone playing them off as such is either a fool or delusional. You're grievers. I've accepted that. You should too.


because you lost you've been griefed and because we
won we must have cheated. funny though, isn't it,
that when the alliance premades do the same there's
nary a peep that accuses them of such things.

be involved with premade bg's. that choice is only closed to
you if you want it to be. have some fun. enjoy the
faction friction in the story line. there's no reason not to.

Cheers.
Pleb.
The unique thing about your group is that you don't see any other premade writing self-aggrandizing diatribes praising their own greatness. Try to spin it all you like, but if you go out of your way, and outside the game's limits, to set up games where your opponents will have absolutely no chance regardless of their skill or strategy, you're a cheater. Saying 'nuh-uh' won't make that any less true. And when it comes to cheaters, "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" is the coward's way out.
90 Night Elf Hunter
13740
"" The good fighters of old first put themselves beyond the possibility of defeat, and then waited for an opportunity of defeating the enemy. "" - Sun Tzu

Perhaps there is an alternative to continually losing to a particular group of Horde players who know what they're doing and play to win in AV:

Admit, publicly or privately, that Alterac Valley belongs to the Horde.

That's all you have to do.

That way, when you sign up for AV either directly or draw it as a random, realize there is a chance you may be totally humiliated and just learn to live with it when it happens.

"" The warrior does not care if he is called a beast or a dog; the main thing is winning. ""
- Asakura Norikage, samurai, 1474-1555


Does this mean that AB, WSG, TP, Gilneas, Eots, and Sota all belong to the alliance? Because the vast majority of the time i do those BG's, we roflstomp the horde. This is solo, also.

I enjoy your tears, pleb.
I am glad that my fellow alliance players are so skilled,
that you have no option
but to spend ridiculous amounts of time waiting
on 39 other people to help carry you in a battleground
that already favors your faction.
While myself and fellow alliance
are having fun stomping horde in all the BG's,
it is comforting to know that you will be sitting afk waiting for AV.

Have fun spending the majority of your time waiting.
Real pvp'ers are too busy pvp'ing.
100 Undead Warrior
14125
"" The good fighters of old first put themselves beyond the possibility of defeat, and then waited for an opportunity of defeating the enemy. "" - Sun Tzu

Perhaps there is an alternative to continually losing to a particular group of Horde players who know what they're doing and play to win in AV:

Admit, publicly or privately, that Alterac Valley belongs to the Horde.

That's all you have to do.

That way, when you sign up for AV either directly or draw it as a random, realize there is a chance you may be totally humiliated and just learn to live with it when it happens.

"" The warrior does not care if he is called a beast or a dog; the main thing is winning. ""
- Asakura Norikage, samurai, 1474-1555


Does this mean that AB, WSG, TP, Gilneas, Eots, and Sota all belong to the alliance? Because the vast majority of the time i do those BG's, we roflstomp the horde. This is solo, also.

I enjoy your tears, pleb.
I am glad that my fellow alliance players are so skilled,
that you have no option
but to spend ridiculous amounts of time waiting
on 39 other people to help carry you in a battleground
that already favors your faction.
While myself and fellow alliance
are having fun stomping horde in all the BG's,
it is comforting to know that you will be sitting afk waiting for AV.

Have fun spending the majority of your time waiting.
Real pvp'ers are too busy pvp'ing.


i didn't write the quote you replied to but did enjoy his post.

as to your post...
LSHIF. that is to say, i'm laughing so hard i farted.
yeah, i enjoyed your post too.

i do okay in the other bg's however i prefer going premade.

good to see your enthusiasm. hope to see you there, on
the battleground, where we can stomp each other.

happy hunting.

Cheers.
Pleb.
85 Tauren Priest
3880


because you lost you've been griefed and because we
won we must have cheated. funny though, isn't it,
that when the alliance premades do the same there's
nary a peep that accuses them of such things.

be involved with premade bg's. that choice is only closed to
you if you want it to be. have some fun. enjoy the
faction friction in the story line. there's no reason not to.

Cheers.
Pleb.
The unique thing about your group is that you don't see any other premade writing self-aggrandizing diatribes praising their own greatness. Try to spin it all you like, but if you go out of your way, and outside the game's limits, to set up games where your opponents will have absolutely no chance regardless of their skill or strategy, you're a cheater. Saying 'nuh-uh' won't make that any less true. And when it comes to cheaters, "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" is the coward's way out.


Actually, "if you can't beat them, just stay home and cry about it" is the coward's way out.

No one in their right mind goes to war- real or simulated- planning to be defeated, and will in all probability do everything they can to minimize the chance of defeat.

I ask you this: what raids have you completed, and did you do all of those and gain all of your gear and items by doing those with only pug raid groups? If you went into a PvE instance/raid with anything but a pug group, you've just done exactly what you're raving against for PvP groups.
100 Human Priest
19570
The unique thing about your group is that you don't see any other premade writing self-aggrandizing diatribes praising their own greatness. Try to spin it all you like, but if you go out of your way, and outside the game's limits, to set up games where your opponents will have absolutely no chance regardless of their skill or strategy, you're a cheater. Saying 'nuh-uh' won't make that any less true. And when it comes to cheaters, "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" is the coward's way out.


Actually, "if you can't beat them, just stay home and cry about it" is the coward's way out.

No one in their right mind goes to war- real or simulated- planning to be defeated, and will in all probability do everything they can to minimize the chance of defeat.

I ask you this: what raids have you completed, and did you do all of those and gain all of your gear and items by doing those with only pug raid groups? If you went into a PvE instance/raid with anything but a pug group, you've just done exactly what you're raving against for PvP groups.
More self-aggrandizement. This is not a war, it's a video game. It has rules. One of them is the limit on premade size. We can see from your team's record why that rule exists.

Raids are not the pve equivalent of unrated battlegrounds. They're the pve equivalent of rated battlegrounds. Rated battlegrounds are an option for players who want organized pvp with more than five players. Unrated battlegrounds are not intended for groups of that size. If they were, you wouldn't have to jump through hoops to queue for them, and you would probably find yourself fighting other premades rather than slaughtering pugs.
90 Night Elf Hunter
13740
Actually, "if you can't beat them, just stay home and cry about it" is the coward's way out.No one in their right mind goes to war- real or simulated- planning to be defeated, and will in all probability do everything they can to minimize the chance of defeat. I ask you this: what raids have you completed, and did you do all of those and gain all of your gear and items by doing those with only pug raid groups? If you went into a PvE instance/raid with anything but a pug group, you've just done exactly what you're raving against for PvP groups.


Actually, it's more about the fact that no one really cares if a full 40 premade in vent with leaders and officers is able to win a BG(where defending practically guarantees even a horde pug group a win) against a team of approx 30-32 pugs. It's like an NBA team beating a college basketball team. They should win.

The thing most people have a problem with is all the chest thumping and post creation about how awesome they think they are. It's nothing to crow about if the New England patriots beat the UCLA bruins football team. There are tons and tons of premades going on, even full 40 man groups like PFA, QQ, and Openraid. None of them, however, make post after post about how awesome they are for stomping pugs into the ground. It's all but guaranteed.
Why can't we all just be friends?

<3
09/23/2012 05:34 PMPosted by Paetheas
Actually, "if you can't beat them, just stay home and cry about it" is the coward's way out.No one in their right mind goes to war- real or simulated- planning to be defeated, and will in all probability do everything they can to minimize the chance of defeat. I ask you this: what raids have you completed, and did you do all of those and gain all of your gear and items by doing those with only pug raid groups? If you went into a PvE instance/raid with anything but a pug group, you've just done exactly what you're raving against for PvP groups.


Actually, it's more about the fact that no one really cares if a full 40 premade in vent with leaders and officers is able to win a BG(where defending practically guarantees even a horde pug group a win) against a team of approx 30-32 pugs. It's like an NBA team beating a college basketball team. They should win.

The thing most people have a problem with is all the chest thumping and post creation about how awesome they think they are. It's nothing to crow about if the New England patriots beat the UCLA bruins football team. There are tons and tons of premades going on, even full 40 man groups like PFA, QQ, and Openraid. None of them, however, make post after post about how awesome they are for stomping pugs into the ground. It's all but guaranteed.


for the most part this is what people are getting I don't want to say upset about, but annoyed certainly about all the posting about how great the 'rath strat' is and how alliance tears sustain them ETC ETC ETC

that is the crux of the issue. yes i know it's a public forum and thats all well and good but like what was mentioned before those other premades are not here posting and gloating and chest thumping about their pug stompings.

$.02
85 Undead Priest
10520
Oh Paetheas I missed your trolling and crying. Where have you been? I honestly was hoping you were just banned from forums but with my luck that wouldn't happen.
85 Tauren Shaman
0
The story is indeed well written. Of course I didn't notice it at first, as I was too busy rotfloling. But...

@Meila: Great! And then you wake up. :) The most complex thing I've got to convince pugs to do was defending the keep.

@Paetheas: You're absolutely right. The Alliance does dominate in PvP pugs. It IS overall superior to the Horde in non-organised PvP. For a number of reasons, but they're not worthy of discussion here. I also win more often in pugs as Alliance than as Horde.

@Farrah: Yes. Gloating is unnecessary and counterproductive. But so is crying about them. I've faced way more Alliance premades than Horde premades, and lost almost every single time. I never complain about the premades, but about the mindless pugs.

I don't believe in premade inevitability. Pugs just need to learn to coordinate. In 40s your delay of 20 seconds won't make so big a difference if you read the chat and know how to react to the possible scenarios. Good pugs are a tough cookie, indeed. At one Alterac, I got late after the usual ragequits and all I could do alone was to have a moral victory attacking a bunker at the last 30 seconds to prevent them from getting perfection. I was a single pug, but I knew what to do. I didn't cry. I rejoiced. It was a personal victory.

Who started to scale things up is pointless now. At this point both sides could do us all a service stopping and getting on the grounds of civilized discussion again.

@Mindblasterx: We clearly disagree. I've already written a long post that covers this subject, and copying it all here would be really stupid. So I'll just link it, ok? :) It has considerations about other aspects of premaking as well. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6606782400#19
100 Human Priest
19570
I'm sorry, Uuna, but saying a 40 man pug has a chance against a full premade is like saying an unarmed man has a chance against a guy with a knife. It's possible, but he has to be a much, much, much better fighter. Putting yourself in a position where your opponent won't win a game unless they are much, much better than you - where being equally skilled is not enough - is cheating.

I also think it's pretty ironic that you're asking for 'civilized discussion' while falling back on the old troll standby of calling any complaints about these groups 'crying'.
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