Penance nerf?

90 Blood Elf Priest
5310
09/18/2012 11:23 AMPosted by Nikølai
Well I guess its a good thing I got wrecking ball before they nerfed us..but really..I agree with the people here and others that think it needed to be done..but that was a little drastic, dont you think?


I think it's about the same as Holy Paladin's Holy shock nerf. They weren't pleased about it either, but we'll adjust
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81 Gnome Priest
11005
09/18/2012 11:38 AMPosted by Nevo
Why the freaking frak are healers complaining about their DPS output?


Because Discipline is designed to do most of its healing thru DPS. Spec skills like Evangelism and Atonement only kick in when you are using DPS spells.


Exactly this. What's the fun in it when the numbers are severely low? =(
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100 Gnome Priest
19270
09/18/2012 11:38 AMPosted by Nevo
Because Discipline is designed to do most of its healing thru DPS.


No, Discipline is designed to do most of its "healing" through absorbs.

Atonement is primarily a PvE ability, designed to be a filler for low-damage phases.
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90 Goblin Priest
3410
Its not just a nerf to Penance, its a nerf to Atonement as well which makes it kinda pointless to stack evangelism. The best thing about Disc is the ability to heal and dps at the same time and its not there anymore. If they want us to heal instead of DPS then they should change evangelism to tick on heals instead of damage.
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90 Goblin Priest
3410
Because Discipline is designed to do most of its healing thru DPS.


No, Discipline is designed to do most of its "healing" through absorbs.

Atonement is primarily a PvE ability, designed to be a filler for low-damage phases.


Evangelism, one of our most useful skills, only works on our DPS spells. If they didn't intend on Disc Priests healing thru Atonement then they wouldn't have made Penance, Holy FIre and Smite our most mana efficient spells.
Edited by Nevo on 9/18/2012 11:49 AM PDT
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100 Gnome Priest
19270
09/18/2012 11:46 AMPosted by Nevo
it kinda pointless to stack evangelism


Again, no. You stack evangelism so that you can pop Archangel for high-damage phases.

Again, Atonement is primarily for PvE. Before it became baseline, most disc priests didn't take it for PvP.

You're right that disc is able to put out some damage, but it's not the kind of damage meant for 1v1'ing other players (which is what most of the !@#$%ing and moaning in this thread seems to be about). Disc DPS is meant to be additional pressure to help teammates get a kill. Discipline is first and foremost a healing spec, which means you first and foremost heal your team. The DPS is just icing on the cake.

I recommend you take a look at this post about the role of disc in PvP before you continue arguing:
http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/189935-priests-and-arena-in-406/

(It's written for 4.0.6 arena but most of the things directly translate to every other aspect of PvP.)
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81 Gnome Priest
11005
I still say they over nerfed.
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90 Human Priest
7065
looks like the only ones complaining are the sub 85's.

"We are too strong lol you guys get destroyed by discs at low level pvp lol lol lol"

"OMG BLIZZ YOU MASSACRED US HOW COULD YOU"
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90 Goblin Priest
3410
it kinda pointless to stack evangelism


Again, no. You stack evangelism so that you can pop Archangel for high-damage phases.

Again, Atonement is primarily for PvE. Before it became baseline, most disc priests didn't take it for PvP.

You're right that disc is able to put out some damage, but it's not the kind of damage meant for 1v1'ing other players (which is what most of the !@#$%ing and moaning in this thread seems to be about). Disc DPS is meant to be additional pressure to help teammates get a kill. Discipline is first and foremost a healing spec, which means you first and foremost heal your team. The DPS is just icing on the cake.

I recommend you take a look at this post about the role of disc in PvP before you continue arguing:
http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/189935-priests-and-arena-in-406/

(It's written for 4.0.6 arena but most of the things directly translate to every other aspect of PvP.)


That doesn't make sense. You'd be better off playing a holy priest that way. Heal>Disc<Shadow thats how its supposed to be. You aren't strickly a healer, thats Holy's job. Saving our most powerful ability just for boss fights? Thats pretty dumb. You can chain Penance, Smite and Holy Fire for a long long time when Evanglism is at 5 stacks. Thats what makes Disc so powerful. If you just ran around spamming shields and flash heal you'd be OOM before you know it.
Edited by Nevo on 9/18/2012 12:06 PM PDT
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81 Gnome Priest
11005
looks like the only ones complaining are the sub 85's.

"We are too strong lol you guys get destroyed by discs at low level pvp lol lol lol"

"OMG BLIZZ YOU MASSACRED US HOW COULD YOU"


I have an 85 priest already, thanks very much.

And it's not just pvp. I enjoyed questing as disc and being able to do as much dps as I would do as shadow. I also enjoyed staying competitive with dps in 5 mans as well. Now I may as well just be shadow while questing/doing 5 mans.

Also, I'm not sitting here acting like a baby and crying. I'm actually posting my concern for this over nerf they've hit us with. As far as pvp goes, yes it's nice to finally not get wrecked by every dps class that comes our way. And yes it's nice to finally be able to actually kill someone(without it taking 5+ minutes) as a healer in pvp.
Edited by Gnerds on 9/18/2012 12:10 PM PDT
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90 Human Priest
7895
This is not my only priest... Holyreign on Shattered Hand was my first 85 DISC priest.

I could give two craps less about pvp and the ability to one-2 shot most people in there with 1 pen cast. I am a focused pve person and have been since starting this game.

I am glad my dramatic responses have made some of you giggle, but the fact still remains that they over nerfed the disc spec.. period.
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72 Troll Priest
6775

And it's not just pvp. I enjoyed questing as disc and being able to do as much dps as I would do as shadow. I also enjoyed staying competitive with dps in 5 mans as well. Now I may as well just be shadow while questing/doing 5 mans.


Nah, it isn't that bad, at least at my level. I just ran a few 5 mans and still managed to stay competitive on the DPS charts. Competitive, mind you, meaning I kept out of the basement and stayed at about the same percentage as some of the lower end folks.

All I ask as an atonement Disc priest is that our damage be a meaningful contribution to an encounter. So far, this still seems to be the case post-nerf. I hope it plays out at higher levels.

Also, the nerf in no way affected Disc's badassery as a leveling spec. So far, it has only meant that I have to throw down a Holy Fire in addition to a Penance before the mob kills me . .. without even landing a single blow.

So I think we are a long ways from broken with this nerf.
Edited by Shadjin on 9/18/2012 12:27 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Priest
5310


Again, no. You stack evangelism so that you can pop Archangel for high-damage phases.

Again, Atonement is primarily for PvE. Before it became baseline, most disc priests didn't take it for PvP.

You're right that disc is able to put out some damage, but it's not the kind of damage meant for 1v1'ing other players (which is what most of the !@#$%ing and moaning in this thread seems to be about). Disc DPS is meant to be additional pressure to help teammates get a kill. Discipline is first and foremost a healing spec, which means you first and foremost heal your team. The DPS is just icing on the cake.

I recommend you take a look at this post about the role of disc in PvP before you continue arguing:
http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/189935-priests-and-arena-in-406/

(It's written for 4.0.6 arena but most of the things directly translate to every other aspect of PvP.)


That doesn't make sense. You'd be better off playing a holy priest that way. Heal>Disc<Shadow thats how its supposed to be. You aren't strickly a healer, thats Holy's job. Saving our most powerful ability just for boss fights? Thats pretty dumb. You can chain Penance, Smite and Holy Fire for a long long time when Evanglism is at 5 stacks. Thats what makes Disc so powerful. If you just ran around spamming shields and flash heal you'd be OOM before you know it.


Prior to the Holy fire Glyph change Atonement healing wasn't terribly viable in high level pvp. Regular bgs...yeah you could get away with it, but long casting in arena and rbgs gets you locked out of Holy so you die pretty fast. Smite is not mana efficient at all, and to my knowledge it's best avoided in PVP altogether. The Holy fire glyph makes atonement viable again, but it's not a required playstyle. In rbgs and arena I'll probably only use AA if it happens to proc due to my actions, otherwise I have more important things to do (like shielding, SS, Healing/pain suppression flag carriers, healing the raid strategically rather than via smart heals, dispelling, MC/ccing other healers, etc).

Your priority should never be dps as disc, it should always be healing because that's what you're best at, and in arena and rbgs that's what you're there for. In regular bgs you can get away with just about anything, but it isn't recommended for serious pvpers. I'm not saying that dps doesn't have it's needs or place, simply that it's not your primary role.

Using your toolkit efficiently and wisely prevents you from going oom. I never had issues as a non-atonement priest in PVP, rbgs, or arena with it came to mana. Mana is tighter now, but using mana efficient spells and using mindbender on cd (or whatever mana talent you chose) should prevent you from going oom.

Atonement is primarily a PVE ability, and it's used mainly for the AA buff to healing, not for the dps. The Holy fire glyph may have changed AA's use in PVP, but it's too early to tell how useful/viable this will be in arena/rbgs. It's my view that in PVP you should be using your most powerful and targeted heals so you can strategically help other players, rather than dpsing and hoping that your smart heals will take care of the massacre. You have much more powerful heals than smite/holy fire that you should be using regularly. Not doing so will result in a lot of players dying due to you not adequately protecting them. If I use AA/A in PVP come MOP, it will be sparingly and mainly for the healing buff (not dps, because I'm not a dpser).
Edited by Kirse on 9/18/2012 12:32 PM PDT
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100 Human Priest
14765
Penance wasn't nerfed as badly for 85. Back to where it was before, good for building Grace. That's all.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
10880
It was needed, there is no argument about it. Penance was hitting WAY too hard. Especially for a healer class. QQ more.
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90 Goblin Priest
3410


That doesn't make sense. You'd be better off playing a holy priest that way. Heal>Disc<Shadow thats how its supposed to be. You aren't strickly a healer, thats Holy's job. Saving our most powerful ability just for boss fights? Thats pretty dumb. You can chain Penance, Smite and Holy Fire for a long long time when Evanglism is at 5 stacks. Thats what makes Disc so powerful. If you just ran around spamming shields and flash heal you'd be OOM before you know it.


Prior to the Holy fire Glyph change Atonement healing wasn't terribly viable in high level pvp. Regular bgs...yeah you could get away with it, but long casting in arena and rbgs gets you locked out of Holy so you die pretty fast. Smite is not mana efficient at all, and to my knowledge it's best avoided in PVP altogether. The Holy fire glyph makes atonement viable again, but it's not a required playstyle. In rbgs and arena I'll probably only use AA if it happens to proc due to my actions, otherwise I have more important things to do (like shielding, SS, Healing/pain suppression flag carriers, healing the raid strategically rather than via smart heals, dispelling, MC/ccing other healers, etc).
Your priority should never be dps as disc, it should always be healing because that's what you're best at, and in arena and rbgs that's what you're there for. In regular bgs you can get away with just about anything, but it isn't recommended for serious pvpers. I'm not saying that dps doesn't have it's needs or place, simply that it's not your primary role.

Using your toolkit efficiently and wisely prevents you from going oom. I never had issues as a non-atonement priest in PVP, rbgs, or arena with it came to mana. Mana is tighter now, but using mana efficient spells and using mindbender on cd (or whatever mana talent you chose) should prevent you from going oom.

Atonement is primarily a PVE ability, and it's used mainly for the AA buff to healing, not for the dps. The Holy fire glyph may have changed AA's use in PVP, but it's too early to tell how useful/viable this will be in arena/rbgs. It's my view that in PVP you should be using your most powerful and targeted heals so you can strategically help other players, rather than dpsing and hoping that your smart heals will take care of the massacre. You have much more powerful heals than smite/holy fire that you should be using regularly. Not doing so will result in a lot of players dying due to you not adequately protecting them. If I use AA/A in PVP come MOP, it will be sparingly and mainly for the healing buff (not dps, because I'm not a dpser).


I'm not saying its the ONLY thing we should be using, but it should be the first tool in our box. Atonement is basically mana-free healing. Why would anyone ignore that?
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85 Human Paladin
9085
Penance wasn't changed at 85; only for lower levels where its damage was overpowered.
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81 Gnome Priest
11005
It's cool I'll just go back to shielding and PoM in 5 mans and just stand there watching tv.
Edited by Gnerds on 9/18/2012 12:58 PM PDT
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100 Human Priest
14765
I still had Recount from yesterday's Theramore run when I logged in today. Penance was hiting 15K normal, 30K crit yesterday, but only 12.5K today with Inner Fire. I don't remember if I was running Inner Will or Inner Fire yesterday, most likely Inner Will because my raid frame would complain for Inner Fire. I don't believe a DK and a hunter can buff the damage so much.
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