Origins and Identity of Azerothian Natives

100 Night Elf Warrior
12360
But let`s just look at it again. Nothing existed on Azeroth from day one. Everything that on Azeroth came into being long after that point. Some were created. Others evolved.


This is an interesting concept... The Earthen and Earth Giants, for instance, were created from the rock of Azeroth and given life by the Titans. While they were created by non-natives, does that mean they are non-native themself, despite their whole existance starting with Azeroth?

In a similar way, if you genetically engineer a native species into something else, is it now non-native?

External agency is a bothersome thing.
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100 Blood Elf Warlock
11220
This presumes that trolls and Tauren are not some Old God creation. I can see it happening.
But let`s just look at it again. Nothing existed on Azeroth from day one. Everything that on Azeroth came into being long after that point. Some were created. Others evolved.

All had their genesis there. Therefore they are native.


except humans, dwarves, gnomes, worgen all had alien intervention to make them be. no aliens no humans, dwarves, gnomes, or worgen... thus they are alien and can never be native.

run azeroth a hundred times, with out aliens the alliance would not exist as it does now. they are not native other than Nelves. everyone else is placed there by a higher power/accident.

no titans... no humans, dwarves, gnomes, or player worgen
no aliens at all... no draenei
you are left with Nelves and pandas

no titans you have trolls, tauren, goblins, pandas and blood elves
cut out titan/other aliens you loose orcs, and forsaken.
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100 Night Elf Warrior
12360
Technicly, if you totally cut out alien involvement, none of the Elves would exist either.

Night Elves are because Trolls lived close to the Well of Eternity, which was created by the Titans. High Elves and then Blood Elves are both derived from Night Elves.

Theres also some indication that Kajamite may have something to do with either the Titans or the Old Gods, which would mean Goblins are the product of Alien influance as well.
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100 Draenei Paladin
13790
Intervention created trolls and Tauren. Even if Old Gods were not involved, evolution intervened.
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26 Worgen Hunter
150
Technicly, if you totally cut out alien involvement, none of the Elves would exist either.

Night Elves are because Trolls lived close to the Well of Eternity, which was created by the Titans. High Elves and then Blood Elves are both derived from Night Elves.

Theres also some indication that Kajamite may have something to do with either the Titans or the Old Gods, which would mean Goblins are the product of Alien influance as well.


I thought the Well of Eternity was unique to Azeroth and not created by the Titans. Is this wrong?
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100 Night Elf Warrior
12360
According to the offical story on the Ordering of Azeroth, the Well of Eternity was the last thing the Titans put on Azeroth, giving the world a font of unlimited power to fuel evolution. That said, the same story still, to this day, blames the corruption of Sargeras partly on the Eredar, sooooo...
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100 Human Paladin
19485
Brann Bronzebeard believes that most of the "animal" races (furbolg, gorloc, gnolls, makrura, pandaren, quilboar, tauren, tuskarr, wolvar) were created by (or descended from) various Ancients.
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100 Night Elf Warrior
12360
Which of course begs the question of whether or not the Ancients are native or not. I would lean towards no, because of their connection with the Emerald Dream, which is its self a Titan creation.

That said, i beleive the RPG books indicated the Tauren had myths about the comming of the Titans, and since we still have nothing to contradict that, in Blizzards own worlds, we can take it largely at face value until told otherwise.

Anyway, this would mean that, if they were decended from an Ancient, the Ancients have to pre-date Titan contact.
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100 Night Elf Priest
11625
None are native. All life on Azeroth descended from Titan cultivation. Some races are Curse of Flesh descendants (Humans, Dwarves, Gnomes), others arose from seeding. Remember that the Titans found Azeroth a lifeless, elemental wasteland. They populated it, then Old Gods arrived and turned it back into a wasteland, Titans arrived, kicked !@# and repopulated the planet. Ergo, the only "natives" to Azeroth are the elementals.
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100 Draenei Paladin
13790
09/21/2012 11:29 PMPosted by Ilci
None are native. All life on Azeroth descended from Titan cultivation. Some races are Curse of Flesh descendants (Humans, Dwarves, Gnomes), others arose from seeding. Remember that the Titans found Azeroth a lifeless, elemental wasteland. They populated it, then Old Gods arrived and turned it back into a wasteland, Titans arrived, kicked !@# and repopulated the planet. Ergo, the only "natives" to Azeroth are the elementals.


The canonicity of that particular timeline has been called into question.
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100 Night Elf Warrior
12360
If by called into question, you mean butchered since the RPG books came out years ago, then yes.

Though, it does raise the question... We've been expressly told that the Curse of Flesh has affected every living thing on the planet. If we're ruling natives because of Alien influance, it does mean that nothing, and i mean NOTHING is native.

However, developing immunities, resistance or otherwise adapting around alien influances is part of evolution, so by a strict sense, even with the Curse of Flesh, there are many races we could still call 'native'.
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100 Night Elf Priest
11625
09/21/2012 11:40 PMPosted by Caeledor
If by called into question, you mean butchered since the RPG books came out years ago, then yes.

If you think the RPG books are in any way definitive canon, perhaps. But as far as the game canon is concerned, this timeline is solid.
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100 Night Elf Warrior
12360
09/21/2012 11:44 PMPosted by Ilci
If by called into question, you mean butchered since the RPG books came out years ago, then yes.

If you think the RPG books are in any way definitive canon, perhaps. But as far as the game canon is concerned, this timeline is solid.


It isn't, though. The Halls of Stone clearly indicate that the Titans were already on Azeroth when the Old Gods came.

We are told that Azeroth 'Became infected with Necrophotic lifeforms' not that it 'was infected'. The temporal tense use is a clear indication that the Titans were already doing their thing when the Old Gods sprang up. Then the war happened, the Old Gods were locked awayway, as were the Elementals, and things resumed as-per-timeline.
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100 Draenei Paladin
13790
That's what she said Cael. That the Titans started on Azeroth, left, then the Old Gods came.
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100 Night Elf Warrior
12360
Yeah, in re-reading, i see that. Shes still a bit off, though, because theres nothing to indicate that the Titans left and returned. Beyond that, i withdraw the complaint, since speed reading clearly failed me.

There is, however, nothing to indicate that the Titans found Azeroth a lifeless rock. We know the Titans regularly find already populated planets in their travels. Alagon tells is so, quite plainly.
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26 Worgen Hunter
150
09/21/2012 11:47 PMPosted by Caeledor

If you think the RPG books are in any way definitive canon, perhaps. But as far as the game canon is concerned, this timeline is solid.


It isn't, though. The Halls of Stone clearly indicate that the Titans were already on Azeroth when the Old Gods came.

We are told that Azeroth 'Became infected with Necrophotic lifeforms' not that it 'was infected'. The temporal tense use is a clear indication that the Titans were already doing their thing when the Old Gods sprang up. Then the war happened, the Old Gods were locked awayway, as were the Elementals, and things resumed as-per-timeline.


I have a theory that the Old Gods have been here long before the coming of the Titans regardless of what the Halls of Stone say. Prior to the Titans tampering with the world they existed as one with the world driving the slow advance of evolution. When the Titans forced Azeroth to meet their idea of order the Old Gods came into being in the incarnation we know today.

So to the Titans the Old Gods were something new but they did not consider that they were a bi-product of their tampering with the ordering of worlds.
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88 Orc Death Knight
4235
Orcs and Draenei are the only alien species.

Finito.


Also ogres.
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100 Gnome Mage
9265
Humans came from the vrykul, who were created by the titans.
Night elves came from trolls, who were around before the titans arrived.


Wrong, when the titans came there was pretty much 0 life, and they created the trolls and a few other races as well. So you could say that none of the races are native to the planet at all.
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100 Troll Shaman
5930
09/22/2012 02:14 AMPosted by Delidge
Wrong, when the titans came there was pretty much 0 life, and they created the trolls and a few other races as well. So you could say that none of the races are native to the planet at all.

Uhh...

Trolls, Aqir and Faceless ones, as per the second Ask CDev thread, and Tauren, according to the last WoW magazine, were all around before the Titans ever set foot on Azeroth.
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100 Draenei Paladin
13790
Before the Titans arrived to fight the Old Gods. Not ever set foot on Azeroth.

A: Besides the elementals, the only known sentient races on Azeroth when the titans' forces arrived to subdue the Old Gods were the trolls, the race known as "faceless ones," and the aqir. Due to the Old Gods' war against the titans, as well as the extensive terraforming that followed the war's conclusion, records of what races existed before even the Old Gods' arrival have likely been lost forever.
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