Eley Shaman PvE DPS balanced?

90 Human Warlock
9955
So from what I'm hearing is that Eley shaman DPS is Lower then most/all other classes with same gear level. Also pre patch Eley Shamms DPS was 5k-6k Higher.

But People have been questioning the use of Stormlash Totem as an off set to our Low DPS. Raid wide DPS increase is attributed to the use of Stormlash and this is only provided by shamans.

It's unfortunate that people Look at damage meters and attribute Damage with skill, but they do. Same goes with healing. So Everytime you look at the damage meters your last, or bottomish, you think, maybe it is you? Everytime any other DPS class looks at the meters and boast that they aren't the reason there isnt enough DPS, they are near the Top of the meters.. Look at that !@#$ty Shaman..

Maybe Shamans are balanced, and there damage is where it needs to be.

What about taking "Stormlash damage" done by all players, and somehow counting that as Shaman Damage? Or any ability given by 1 specific class to help raid damage.

Maybe Blizzard needs to come up with there own version of in game recount. It might help people understand.

Comments? Keep the Flaming to a minimum please!
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81 Undead Warrior
10345
09/17/2012 09:12 AMPosted by Bambambeavr
So from what I'm hearing is that Eley shaman DPS is Lower then most/all other classes with same gear level. Also pre patch Eley Shamms DPS was 5k-6k Higher.


Some of the issue with the drop in dps was people forgot set bonuses. The current max tier shaman set gives a bonus only during elemental mastery. Since that is not baseline but a choice, those who forget and tested the other two would notice a large drop due to missing the tier bonus.
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90 Troll Shaman
12580
09/17/2012 09:12 AMPosted by Bambambeavr
Eley


Where...is the y coming from?

09/17/2012 09:12 AMPosted by Bambambeavr
Maybe Blizzard needs to come up with there own version of in game recount. It might help people understand.


Blizzard is against putting an in-game damage meter because they feel that if they do then people will take it as the ultimate counter argument for when their class doesn't perform. "My class is broken because the in-game damage meter shows me at the bottom"

Elemental PvE DPS is fine. We've never been a high-competitive spec, but we're not at the bottom of the barrel either, and that's the same case with MoP.

It's unfortunate that people Look at damage meters and attribute Damage with skill, but they do. Same goes with healing. So Everytime you look at the damage meters your last, or bottomish, you think, maybe it is you? Everytime any other DPS class looks at the meters and boast that they aren't the reason there isnt enough DPS, they are near the Top of the meters.. Look at that !@#$ty Shaman..


There are very few specs out there (like Frost mages, pre-patch 2H frost DKs) that are actually incapable of performing at a competitive/acceptable level, and even then if you put a good player behind that spec they can still pull pretty decent numbers, although they truly will never be able to compete like they would if they played fire, unholy, or whatever the current top spec they should be. I played my lock as destro the entire expac even though affliction was considered to be #1 and I was never at the bottom of meters unless I was just outgeared.

Anyone playing an elemental shaman that isn't able to pull his weight for the encounter is the sole reason to blame for the lack of DPS he provides (outside of the case where bad RNG bones you from time to time as everyone playing any class periodically deals with). Either that or it's an encounter that is simply bad for elemental, in which every class periodically deals with (Or more specifically a fight is designed to be less forgiving towards ranged/melee DPS).
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90 Human Warlock
9955
09/17/2012 10:10 AMPosted by Liax
Blizzard is against putting an in-game damage meter because they feel that if they do then people will take it as the ultimate counter argument for when their class doesn't perform. "My class is broken because the in-game damage meter shows me at the bottom"


Blizzard knows everyone uses recount.

09/17/2012 10:10 AMPosted by Liax
Elemental PvE DPS is fine. We've never been a high-competitive spec, but we're not at the bottom of the barrel either, and that's the same case with MoP.


Shamans Are the lowest DPSing class in the Game.

Why are all Shamans content with just being medicore? Why do we need to accept that we do low damage? Why is it to much to ask to be competitive? Is it to much to ask to be comaprable to other Hybrid Classes?

My suggestion to off set the Lower DPS was somehow count Stormlash DPS as Shaman DPS.

09/17/2012 10:10 AMPosted by Liax
Anyone playing an elemental shaman that isn't able to pull his weight for the encounter is the sole reason to blame for the lack of DPS he provides


Is a 409 ilvl shaman pulling 45k on ultraxion pulling his weight when other classes at 409ilvl are doing 55k-60k? 15k Seems like a lot to me.
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http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_Score/25H/100/14/60/avg/

facts disagree with you bro
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
9375
09/20/2012 01:47 PMPosted by Bambambeavr
Shamans Are the lowest DPSing class in the Game.


This is wrong.

Why am I mediocre on my Shaman? Why do I need to accept that I don't know what I'm doing?


FTFY.

Please don't make comments that are completely out of the ballpark wrong unless you actually can support it feasibly.
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90 Draenei Shaman
16690
At level 85 Elemental is missing a significant portion of their damage (around 20% or so between level 90 talents & Ascendance.)

At level 90 it won't be perfect, but the disparity will by in large balance out.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
9375
Don't forget to mention, Gistwiki, that with movement being prevalent in a lot of fights that Elemental climbs above a lot of other DPS specs in damage done. What did Binks say it was? 7th with 20% movement?
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90 Human Warlock
9955
ttp://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_Score/25H/100/14/60/avg/facts disagree with you bro


Does this really show fire mages near the bottom? Very Accurate!
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90 Human Warlock
9955
At level 85 Elemental is missing a significant portion of their damage (around 20% or so between level 90 talents & Ascendance.)


Yes but Every class is getting New DPS increase abilities.. Please tell me if you think Eley Shamans will be competitve with this ability.
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90 Draenei Shaman
16690
09/20/2012 02:29 PMPosted by Swagbot
Don't forget to mention, Gistwiki, that with movement being prevalent in a lot of fights that Elemental climbs above a lot of other DPS specs in damage done. What did Binks say it was? 7th with 20% movement?


12th with 20% movement. 7th with 40%. But with any of those numbers (0%/20%/40%) you still have to take them with a fairly heavy grain of salt b/c simcraft still needs quite a bit of polish.
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90 Human Warlock
9955
FTFY.Please don't make comments that are completely out of the ballpark wrong unless you actually can support it feasibly.


Facts Don't Lie Bro.

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Ultraxion/10H/100/14/60/avg/#3dv6l
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90 Human Warlock
9955
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_Score/25H/100/14/60/avg/

facts disagree with you bro


..... http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Ultraxion/10H/100/14/60/avg/#3dv6l
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
9375
Huh. I didn't realize every fight was Ultraxion.

Blizzard really needs to be more creative with their raid boss designs.

09/20/2012 02:34 PMPosted by Gistwiki
12th with 20% movement. 7th with 40%. But with any of those numbers (0%/20%/40%) you still have to take them with a fairly heavy grain of salt b/c simcraft still needs quite a bit of polish.


This is true in regards to simcraft, but it completely goes against the statement "Hurr Elemental sucks hurr."

Ironically, the same people you see posting this, are the same shamans who have no idea what they're doing. The ones which know what they're doing (And are still performing lower regardless), aren't complaining because they recognize why their damage is lower in the first place.
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90 Draenei Shaman
16690
At level 85 Elemental is missing a significant portion of their damage (around 20% or so between level 90 talents & Ascendance.)


Yes but Every class is getting New DPS increase abilities.. Please tell me if you think Eley Shamans will be competitve with this ability.


Not near the level that Shaman will end up getting in MoP. Some classes get rotational dps abilities at 90. Some classes get dps cooldowns at 87. The only ones to get both are Hunters & Shaman. Both Hunter abilities will end up providing less dps to their class than the Shaman additions will by a significant margin (can provide somewhat accurate math if required.)

Yes. Shaman will be competitive at 90.

Raidbots is iffy as a source at best at this point with all the issues that WoL is having. Top 100s aren't going to be accurate because WoL has stopped taking rankings till MoP & anything other than 10N is going to be woefully inadequate because almost every parse shows up as 10N at this point due to them not wanting to completely revamp WoL for what 5.0 screwed up.
Edited by Gistwiki on 9/20/2012 2:49 PM PDT
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90 Human Warlock
9955
09/20/2012 02:47 PMPosted by Swagbot
Ironically, the same people you see posting this, are the same shamans who have no idea what they're doing. The ones which know what they're doing (And are still performing lower regardless), aren't complaining because they recognize why their damage is lower in the first place.


Weird how, if you're talking about me specifically, I've parsed on my shaman Pre Nerf. I also understand that post Patch our Damage is Low and that a lot of people are staying optimistic. A lot of people are saying at 90 our damage will be higher. I myself from past experience am deciding to change my main because everytime people wait to see damage increases, it takes months to happen if at all.

Yes my damage is relatively comparable to other DPS. But you link me stats on elemental shamans Showing them in 8th place and Say that i'm wrong? If anything you helped prove my point.
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90 Troll Shaman
12580
Is a 409 ilvl shaman pulling 45k on ultraxion pulling his weight when other classes at 409ilvl are doing 55k-60k? 15k Seems like a lot to me.


We're balanced around Ascendance right now, and we don't have it.

And the fact is Ultraxion is a really fast kill for most top guilds. Any class that has multiple 2 minute CDs is going to wreck on Ultraxion because just as they're starting to ramp down they ramp right back up when CDs come off, and so they don't fall as much as elemental does. Put those two together and it looks really bad on an Ultraxion kill. We don't have multiple CDs, and EM was absolutely gutted compared to the old version so we can't ramp up nearly as hard as everyone else can. We don't have any big %!!@#!@! CDs right now.

Give me Ascendance and I'll show you a 55k parse, especially if it's like a ~3min 30 second kill (This will allow two uses)
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90 Draenei Shaman
16690
09/20/2012 02:58 PMPosted by Bambambeavr
But you link me stats on elemental shamans Showing them in 8th place and Say that i'm wrong?


Go look at who wrote the posts again. This statement is being made to the wrong guy <3

09/20/2012 02:58 PMPosted by Bambambeavr
Weird how, if you're talking about me specifically, I've parsed on my shaman Pre Nerf.


/curiosity. Name/server? :<

09/20/2012 02:58 PMPosted by Bambambeavr
lot of people are saying at 90 our damage will be higher.


Considering the damage loss from the damage portion of EM is getting paid back with interest on Ascendance, I can't see how it'd possibly be relatively equal or lower with equal skill.

09/20/2012 03:00 PMPosted by Liax
Give me Ascendance and I'll show you a 55k parse


Higher than that I'd hope. You've got 52k without it :-|
Edited by Gistwiki on 9/20/2012 3:05 PM PDT
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90 Human Warlock
9955
09/20/2012 03:00 PMPosted by Liax
Give me Ascendance and I'll show you a 55k parse, especially if it's like a ~3min 30 second kill (This will allow two uses)


55k parse makes me giggle.. I did 50k on my Aff Lock last night 398 ilvl.

For all our Sakes.. I really Hope Ascendance makes us competitve.
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1 Orc Shaman
0
A 55k parse is nothing to snuff at. Other classes can do more, but pulling 50k+ on that fight isn't something you should sulk away from.

Give me ascendance on top of pre-patch and I'd really have some fun (EM + Ascendance would be amazing. 2K mastery, 20% more damage).

Edit: Bank alt >.>
Edited by Laix on 9/20/2012 3:52 PM PDT
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