Reviving Old Raids

50 Worgen Rogue
250
09/23/2012 09:54 PMPosted by Hyjinx
Since we're arguing semantics, if you wanted my further personal views you should have asked for that. You asked for Blizzard's opinion, and there obviously isn't a Blizzard opinion because they aren't doing it.


I didn't ask for Blizzard's opinion. We were talking about reviving old raids and what we would like to see. You stated something was not going to happen. I figured either you read something somewhere by Blizzard that I must have missed or you were part of the Dev team yourself.

09/23/2012 09:54 PMPosted by Hyjinx
Also, I think it's pretty damn obvious that it's impossible to just update the old raids and leave it be. The philosophy is different now, abilities are different now, and fights are different now. Not to mention that Karazhan was a 10 man only raid, and the rest of the raids were 25 people. Or that in vanilla the raids were (mostly) 40 man. Just the different numbers of people would represent an entirely different experience.


You sometimes have to look beyond the obvious and think outside the box. Sure, Kara was only a 10-man raid but that's one reason it would be perfect. The queue times would theoretically not be long. I guess we'd just have to wait and see. As I said, I won't hold my breath but I will cross my fingers.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9960
Wanna run old raids? Join a "classics" guild and turn your xp off when appropriate. Otherwise, I want new things to do, not rehashing the same old stuff again and again (ZG/ZA/SFK/Deadmines/Scarlet Monostary/ Scholo much?).
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90 Night Elf Druid
17755
I didn't ask for Blizzard's opinion. We were talking about reviving old raids and what we would like to see. You stated something was not going to happen. I figured either you read something somewhere by Blizzard that I must have missed or you were part of the Dev team yourself.


Or he has the sense to realise that a 10-man raid scaled up to try and accommodate 25 people and new mechanics cannot possibly be the same raid.

Even ZA isn't the same raid that it was when it was retuned, and that's the closest they've gotten. Halazzi alone has entirely different dynamics, not to mention Zul'jin, oh wait Zul'jin isn't there because the entire storyline was changed, just like the entire storyline of a souped up Karazhan would be changed. Going from 2 tanks down to 1 altered the dynamics of every fight except Akil'zon.
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90 Orc Shaman
13550
I didn't ask for Blizzard's opinion. We were talking about reviving old raids and what we would like to see. You stated something was not going to happen. I figured either you read something somewhere by Blizzard that I must have missed or you were part of the Dev team yourself.


You didn't ask for Blizzard's opinion?

09/23/2012 12:36 PMPosted by Greyhide
Could you please provide a link to where Blizzard stated they will not be?


09/23/2012 12:36 PMPosted by Greyhide
where Blizzard stated


Blizzard stated


Right. Whatever you say.

And although I did state it's not going to happen, the specific point you asked about there was how I knew the raids weren't going to be the same as the old raids. Which doesn't need Blizzard confirmation anyway. That's just common sense and looking backwards to when old instances and raids were revived already.

Not to mention that appeal to authority is a logical fallacy.

You sometimes have to look beyond the obvious and think outside the box. Sure, Kara was only a 10-man raid but that's one reason it would be perfect. The queue times would theoretically not be long. I guess we'd just have to wait and see. As I said, I won't hold my breath but I will cross my fingers.


Wait, what do queue times have to do with Karazhan being a different experience?

Also, are you saying that they would leave Karazhan at 10 people and not scale it to 25? What the hell would be the point of reviving it, then? Note: I'm assuming with these raids that you actually want them to be relevant when revived, which means they would all need to follow the formats of the raids we have now.

And what if they revived MC, BWL or AQ? What happens to your queue time example then?

Furthermore, we have Naxxramas as a revived raid already, which matches some of the things I already pointed out. Naxxramas was scaled to the different difficulties (10 and 25) of the time, and it was definitely not the same Naxxramas of patch 1.3. That Naxxramas was hard, 3.0 Naxx was a joke. Mechanics were altered or played with to fit the new formats, and it was far, far easier than the old Naxx.

09/24/2012 01:41 AMPosted by Greyhide
You sometimes have to look beyond the obvious and think outside the box


How strange. So it's me - the guy who thinks this would take some effort to pull off and is considering the ramifications of scaling a raid up to 2 or 4 or 5 difficulty levels - who is stuck inside the box. But you - the guy who thinks they can just scale up the raids' levels and call it a day - are looking beyond the obvious.

That looks as if it should be reversed to me. Don't you think?
Edited by Hyjinx on 9/24/2012 8:37 AM PDT
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50 Worgen Rogue
250
Or he has the sense to realise that a 10-man raid scaled up to try and accommodate 25 people and new mechanics cannot possibly be the same raid.

Even ZA isn't the same raid that it was when it was retuned, and that's the closest they've gotten. Halazzi alone has entirely different dynamics, not to mention Zul'jin, oh wait Zul'jin isn't there because the entire storyline was changed, just like the entire storyline of a souped up Karazhan would be changed. Going from 2 tanks down to 1 altered the dynamics of every fight except Akil'zon.


We didn't know ahead of time that was even going to happen. Hopefully something interesting can be done.

09/24/2012 06:35 AMPosted by Postonforums
Ya, I never did like just accepting the right answer, it's more fun to troll, right?


That's you and you alone.

09/24/2012 08:15 AMPosted by Hyjinx
Right. Whatever you say.


I didn't come into the thread asking for it but you seem to believe some kind of secret we're not aware of. I was just asking you to share.

09/24/2012 08:15 AMPosted by Hyjinx
And although I did state it's not going to happen, the specific point you asked about there was how I knew the raids weren't going to be the same as the old raids. Which doesn't need Blizzard confirmation anyway. That's just common sense and looking backwards to when old instances and raids were revived already.


That's just an assumption of yours, which is all you had to say.

Also, are you saying that they would leave Karazhan at 10 people and not scale it to 25? What the hell would be the point of reviving it, then? Note: I'm assuming with these raids that you actually want them to be relevant when revived, which means they would all need to follow the formats of the raids we have now.

And what if they revived MC, BWL or AQ? What happens to your queue time example then?

Furthermore, we have Naxxramas as a revived raid already, which matches some of the things I already pointed out. Naxxramas was scaled to the different difficulties (10 and 25) of the time, and it was definitely not the same Naxxramas of patch 1.3. That Naxxramas was hard, 3.0 Naxx was a joke. Mechanics were altered or played with to fit the new formats, and it was far, far easier than the old Naxx.


I was just tossing around ideas, which is the point of this thread. I'm sorry my idea makes you so angry. We don't know what would happen because nothing has been announced. We were discussing what we would "like to see." Note the bolded part.

How strange. So it's me - the guy who thinks this would take some effort to pull off and is considering the ramifications of scaling a raid up to 2 or 4 or 5 difficulty levels - who is stuck inside the box. But you - the guy who thinks they can just scale up the raids' levels and call it a day - are looking beyond the obvious.

That looks as if it should be reversed to me. Don't you think?


Nope, not at all. As I've said multiple times, I'm just tossing around ideas and keeping my fingers crossed that something that has yet to even be announced would even be considered. I hope that it finally makes sense to you because you're really going off on an tangent here.
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90 Orc Shaman
13550
Nope, not at all. As I've said multiple times, I'm just tossing around ideas and keeping my fingers crossed that something that has yet to even be announced would even be considered. I hope that it finally makes sense to you because you're really going off on an tangent here.


Addressing your points is going off on a tangent now? Ok.

You do realize that my point earlier was that nothing had been announced, right? It looks kind of silly for you to appropriate that point in your argument.

09/25/2012 01:36 AMPosted by Greyhide
That's just an assumption of yours, which is all you had to say.


Except it isn't an assumption. I based it on what has already happened. It's quite ironic that you keep saying I'm making assumptions when everything you're writing is an assumption.
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90 Night Elf Druid
17755
We didn't know ahead of time that was even going to happen. Hopefully something interesting can be done.


We didn't know ahead of time that they would be altering a Saber Lash mechanic on Halazzi that was originally designed around 2 tanks in a 10-man when they made it a 5-man?

Maybe you didn't know.

Things guaranteed to be changed in an upgraded Karazhan:
- Storyline
- Moroes Trash
- Aran Trash
- Maiden
- Netherspite/Chess trash
- Opera (especially Big Bad Wolf)
- Prince Infernals (probably some kind of circle showing where it iwll land because looking up is too complex)
- Flame Wreath
Edited by Slashlove on 9/25/2012 2:25 PM PDT
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50 Worgen Rogue
250
09/25/2012 07:19 AMPosted by Hyjinx
Addressing your points is going off on a tangent now? Ok.


You're taking a "I hope" and blowing it way out of proportion and getting all mad about it.

09/25/2012 07:19 AMPosted by Hyjinx
You do realize that my point earlier was that nothing had been announced, right? It looks kind of silly for you to appropriate that point in your argument.


No, that was my point to you when you kept going about "it will happen like this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

09/25/2012 07:19 AMPosted by Hyjinx
Except it isn't an assumption. I based it on what has already happened. It's quite ironic that you keep saying I'm making assumptions when everything you're writing is an assumption.


Unless you have concrete proof it will be like that, it's just an assumption based on past events. You're really grasping at straws.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
0
Unless you have concrete proof it will be like that, it's just an assumption based on past events. You're really grasping at straws.


That's just like, your opinion man.
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50 Worgen Rogue
250
You two make me miss being 13.
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