MoP 5.4 Elemental Guide: Zap that Orc!

90 Draenei Shaman
16690
By that logic yes it ought to be 35 seconds, but it feels like there's something we're missing that I can't quite place my finger on >.>

#scumbagbrain -.-
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Shaman
7745
er... just a quick question expecting quick reply:

1)Do we use ascendence with heroism or use it seperately form hero?

All these talks about EM and asc is making me think that we should use asc with hero at the same time?

But i think I'm wrong.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Shaman
16690
10/22/2012 07:15 PMPosted by Thelws
1)Do we use ascendence with heroism or use it seperately form hero?


If at all possible yes. If it isn't possible without losing a future ascendance then don't bother.
Reply Quote
90 Orc Shaman
9420
Is the Shado Pan trinket even worth using over the Alchemy Trinket...? It doesn't seem like it would because of the insane burst you get from the Alch trinket.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Shaman
16690
1) Probably is worth it unless you can reliably line up the proc with Ascendance or are running another proc trinket in tandem with it
2) I'd probably run Flashfrozen Resin Globule over either of them.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Shaman
8210
Okay, I imported your profile Gist, since Armory is bugging out on my leggings. Here's my assumptions and results.

I simmed a 9 minute fight (using the overrides tab), 10000 simulations, all buffs/debuffs on. I set heroism to be used at 8:20, which should take heroism out of the equation. However, for some reason, even though I set vary_combat_length to zero, it still gives me something between 495-570 seconds (8m15s to 9m30s) for fight length.

First, I added the following line to the Flashfrozen Resin Globule:

actions+=/use_item,name=flashfrozen_resin_globule,if=cooldown.ascendance.remains<5

Then, since I'm doing one very specific case, I took out all of the conditionals for elemental mastery (since I want it to activate at specific times). For the "use EM on CD" case, I used this line, which should pop EM at 0 - 2 - 4 - 6 - 8.

actions.single=elemental_mastery,if=!buff.bloodlust.up

For the hold EM until ascendance case, I used this line which should pop EM at 0 - 3 - 6 - 8:

actions.single=elemental_mastery,if=!buff.bloodlust.up&((cooldown.ascendance.remains<5)|(time>=470))

Results (2 sets of 10,000 simulations each):

Use EM on CD: 71405 DPS, 71437 DPS - EM used 5 times as expected (0-2-4-6-8)
Hold EM until Ascendance: 71610 DPS, 71590 DPS - EM used 4 times as expected (0-3-6-8)
Baseline DPS (EoE used): 71874 (lol, did I just completely invalidate my work?)

Analysis:

On the DPS/time chart that the damage of the ascendance at 3 minutes is significantly increased when EM is held for it. There's also tiny bumps at 2 minutes and 4 minutes for the use EM on cooldown case, which makes me believe that the simulation is performing correctly.

Holding EM gives you a 0.3% increase in DPS. I feel that this number would be even higher because a warrior's skull banner lines up with ascendance, and further increases the damage within Ascendance. I also feel that it's much easier to plan a full ascendance burn in terms of fight movement (ie. saving SWG), rather than dealing with multiple burn phases at 2 mins, 3 mins and 4 mins. You may lose even more on your EM if you get interrupted in some manner.

Conclusion:

Use EoE. Haha.

It would seem that losing a single EM in order to gain a hasted ascendance is a slight DPS increase.

Further Question: Can this one particular case be held as a general case?
Edited by Azloran on 10/23/2012 4:02 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Shaman
16690
10/23/2012 03:59 PMPosted by Azloran
Further Question: Can this one particular case be held as a general case?


3 easy steps shall be followed when I get home:

1) Poke Binkenstein in his thread on totemspot.
2) Wait.
3) Receive answer! >.>

.3% dps is in the margin of error though isn't it? I mean from the looks of it there will be no observable difference anyways, but the theoretical difference appears to be close enough that the label ought to be inconclusive.

Edit: I find that doubtful though. Flashfrozen Resin Globule weights it in favor of lining up EM.
Edited by Gistwiki on 10/23/2012 5:43 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Orc Shaman
9420
I have a question for you guys on Stone Guard:

Chain Lightning: 2 targets, going OOM after a few minutes. Any way I can avoid this or......
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Shaman
16690
I have a question for you guys on Stone Guard:

Chain Lightning: 2 targets, going OOM after a few minutes. Any way I can avoid this or......


Alternate back to LB below 35% mana and run glyph of TC as your third glyph for that fight.
Reply Quote
90 Orc Shaman
9420
Okay. Cool. I was going over some data and compared myself to another Shaman on my server doing a lot more dps on that fight than me and he was doing 2:1 Chain Lightnings to me. lol
Reply Quote
100 Tauren Shaman
7845
Quick trinket question - I ran the direbrew holiday boss a few times but didn't get the watch. I did get the healing trinket which I have been using with the alchemist trinket because of all that yummy static intellect. Now though, got a really nice trinket drop and am wondering - which should I use with it - the 450 alch trinket or the 470 (healing) direbrew trinket?
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Shaman
16690
Zen Alchemist stone will likely be stronger.

55s ICD and 25% proc rate means an average of 58-60 seconds between procs which means the proc will average out to around 1140 intellect.
Reply Quote
90 Orc Shaman
9420
Question: Bloodlust didn't benefit our Flame Shock ticks before the change today, did it? Or did it. I don't know.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Shaman
13860
Okay, I imported your profile Gist, since Armory is bugging out on my leggings. Here's my assumptions and results.

I simmed a 9 minute fight (using the overrides tab), 10000 simulations, all buffs/debuffs on. I set heroism to be used at 8:20, which should take heroism out of the equation. However, for some reason, even though I set vary_combat_length to zero, it still gives me something between 495-570 seconds (8m15s to 9m30s) for fight length.

It would seem that losing a single EM in order to gain a hasted ascendance is a slight DPS increase.

Further Question: Can this one particular case be held as a general case?

You are artificially boosting the effect of EM in this case because you're using a 9 minute fight. If you want to make an accurate assessment you need to have a fight length that is divisible by 2 & 3 (ie: 6, 12 etc). This will maintain the 3:2 ratio of EM to Ascendance uses, rather than the 5:3 you had in your first test, and 4:3 in the second.

Additionally, if it's worthwhile saving EM for Ascendance, it should be worthwhile all of the time. In the initial rotation testing we'd use hero at the start, when hero was down but delaying it by 30 seconds if Ascendance was due shortly. It wasn't a gain, from memory, and it certainly didn't surpass Echo either.

Also, as you get more haste EM's value will diminish slightly as you'll be over the soft cap by more.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Shaman
13860
10/26/2012 07:57 PMPosted by Ingrathis
Question: Bloodlust didn't benefit our Flame Shock ticks before the change today, did it? Or did it. I don't know.
It's a wording change, nothing more.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Shaman
16690
10/27/2012 01:55 PMPosted by Binkenstein
You are artificially boosting the effect of EM in this case because you're using a 9 minute fight.


d'oh. That'd be my fault >.>

10/27/2012 01:58 PMPosted by Binkenstein
It's a wording change, nothing more.


A wording change that makes it less confusing I might add :D
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Shaman
8210
You are artificially boosting the effect of EM in this case because you're using a 9 minute fight. If you want to make an accurate assessment you need to have a fight length that is divisible by 2 & 3 (ie: 6, 12 etc). This will maintain the 3:2 ratio of EM to Ascendance uses, rather than the 5:3 you had in your first test, and 4:3 in the second.


I don't get this. For a 6 minute fight, you would do the following:

EM on CD - 0, 2, 4. Ascendance at 0 and 3.

If you hold EM, you would do 0, 3, 5. Ascendance at 0 and 3. This case is always better.

For fights that you do hold a 3:2 ratio of EM to Ascendance, you would ALWAYS hold EM for Ascendance. It's the fights where you would, in theory, get one more EM cast if you cast on CD (ie. weighting towards EM on CD) that is interesting, because I believe my analysis shows that even when you lose a theoretical EM cast, holding the cooldown for Ascendance is a DPS boost (however insignificant).

However, you are correct in that as we get more and more haste gear, the gain you get from Ascendance + EM gets smaller and smaller, while the gain on your normal rotation stays the same. I'm not sure where this breakpoint will be, but in this tier, I don't think we've hit that yet.

Edit: However, I just ran the 12 minute scenario, and "EM on CD" won out slightly. I don't know anymore.
Edited by Azloran on 10/29/2012 9:08 AM PDT
Reply Quote
100 Tauren Shaman
7845
Thanks for the trinket advice.

Quick question on Stone Guard - Is it better to just spam CL as much as possible, and hit fulminations, or does it make more sense to make sure you have FS up and hit the Lava Bursts as well? I am thinking that I should at least keep FS up, and hit the instant lava bursts.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Shaman
16690
10/29/2012 08:20 AMPosted by Toraak
make sure you have FS up and hit the Lava Bursts as well


2 targets - Unglyph CL and replace LB with it while above ~20-35% mana. Swap back to LB when mana gets too low. Use regular single target rotation with that change. More targets will eventually move fulmination up the ladder though so far as I know, but not at 2.
Edited by Gistwiki on 10/29/2012 4:47 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Troll Shaman
9790
Hey guys i had a question about reforging. I received two lucky drops yesterday. First was the tier legs off Sha and light of the cosmos off LFR. I've been using reforgelite and it's saying to reforge mastery to haste. I understand haste is better but at 7k haste should i start reforging back some of those mastery to haste pieces? Or continue to stack haste?
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]