MoP 5.4 Elemental Guide: Zap that Orc!

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90 Draenei Shaman
16690
12/24/2012 09:21 AMPosted by Azloran
For example, dropping it while running on blade lord Tayak tornadoes or helping the healers recover from a double crush mistake on Garalon.


I was thinking recovery from bad epicenters on Feng as well, and I agree that there are definitely times where HTT shines. I think the Garalon example goes to AG though, as you can abuse the circles to get much stronger AGs to help them recover on that fight.

12/24/2012 09:21 AMPosted by Azloran
HTT does about 950k healing


That number seems a little exaggerated to me. Just looking at the numbers I'm seeing ingame right now, and with average crit rates it seems like the max potential for healing from HTT in my gear is right around 750k. At the same time, the both AG #s seem underwhelming. I've seen 2 million healing with 30% overheal off a single AG + Ascend (noting it was during hero with weapon enchant proc/DMC proc/potion - averages more around 1-1.3M with Ascend but w/o hero) before, and I've seen AGs go up to over a million (RNG gods smiled upon me, average without cds is closer to 750k) without any cooldowns up.

I will however, withdraw my blanket statement. It's not absolute by any means. If you require exact control over your raid cooldown and don't need it more than once every 3 minutes or are weaker on dps than you'd like to be then HTT may shine above AG. If you need that healing more often than that 3 minutes, or there's a damage booster in the encounter when you need that healing boost (many examples of this so far this tier) then AG will shine.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
9875
thanks for getting back gistwiki. upgraded my motherboard so i could throw a newer processor and ddr 3 in it 8gigs now instead of 2. world of difference. anyway i was asking about hte lightning bolt spec because typically i pug sha and ppl suck at getting orbs so if it wasnt a huge dps loss i could just get them nonstop and let the other guys just pew pew at max dps. its kinda a moot point though with how the orb mechanics work. everyone needs to do it.

12/24/2012 09:21 AMPosted by Azloran
AG should be stronger than HTT in Tier 5 in any situation where you can maintain dps while using AG.


many raid leaders in 25 man content will make u take HTT and lump you into a group that uses healing cds, typally with 3-5 ppl blowing their load for healing at a time. they call out for like 3 groups to use their cds and it works well. i do feel they overlook the fact that AG is in fact a much better heal, however i find that most raid leaders arent shamans and dont keep up with the nerfs. imo, htt is terrible. if you are in a 2nd - 3rd group that gets called out for healing cds u can get away with using AG on the pull and again when its called for, however you wont have it up with ascendance more than 2x in a fight.

on a side note, if u are doing bgs or 5 mans, roll with ag or even conductivity and enjoy.
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90 Draenei Shaman
16690
12/28/2012 02:18 PMPosted by Rëflex
thanks for getting back gistwiki. upgraded my motherboard so i could throw a newer processor and ddr 3 in it 8gigs now instead of 2. world of difference.


/hug

I know all about those kinds of issues hehe.

12/28/2012 02:18 PMPosted by Rëflex
anyway i was asking about hte lightning bolt spec because typically i pug sha and ppl suck at getting orbs so if it wasnt a huge dps loss i could just get them nonstop and let the other guys just pew pew at max dps.


Should be done almost exclusively by the tank with a bit of backup by the healer (for the regen) & then the dps if nobody else can get to them. It's not a huge loss, but it's a noticeable one.

12/28/2012 02:18 PMPosted by Rëflex
many raid leaders in 25 man content will make u take HTT and lump you into a group that uses healing cds, typally with 3-5 ppl blowing their load for healing at a time.


When they tell you to use HTT, you say "k, using AG." When they ask what you're talking about, you tell them you used your healing cd. When they ask why you didn't HTT later, you tell them what you used, tell them that it does more healing, and if they press you you tell them why it does more healing :<

12/28/2012 02:18 PMPosted by Rëflex
if u are doing bgs or 5 mans, roll with ag


Nah. As easy as it is to kill HTT, it's easier to poorly position your HR or get forced off of it for Conductivity and easier to shut AG down with competent players. I could see it for random BGs, but not rbgs or arenas.
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90 Troll Druid
4050
12/24/2012 09:21 AMPosted by Azloran
AG should be stronger than HTT in Tier 5 in any situation where you can maintain dps while using AG.


This is something that I'm actually interested to discuss.

From a pure throughput perspective, AG is better. I can do about 1.1 million healing if I just macro it to Ascendance, and about 500k if just normal DPSing, and it's on a 2 min cooldown.

However, from a utility perspective, I'm slowly starting to move back towards thinking about taking HTT. A controlled healing cooldown sometimes can really help the healers pick up the raid. For example, dropping it while running on blade lord Tayak tornadoes or helping the healers recover from a double crush mistake on Garalon. HTT does about 950k healing, which is similar to AG, but as with DPS cooldowns, the fact that I can pop it when needed and it does more than AG is where the value of HTT comes in.

Right now, I have AG macroed to Ascendance, and basically it's either overpowered as heck (it lined up with massive AoE damage and I single handedly pick up the entire raid), or completely overheal (85% of the time).

Any input/experience from other raiders on this?


I 100% agree that healing tide is awesome for elementals. The reason why I like it is because you can use it when you aren't dpsing. Its a set it and forget it cooldown which is very powerful.

Sometimes, ease of use matters more than pure numbers. I see alot of shaman out there who forget to use Ancestral Guidance because its harder to use and a bit clunky. You need to wait after a GCD to use it or else you waste ~1.3 seconds of its time and you want to cast an instant at the last second. It just requires alot of concentration. Healing tide is one button to cast. Yes, you lose some dps casting it, but that's inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.
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90 Troll Druid
4050
To previous posts: Racials make little difference right now, so if you want a theoretical increase in DPS from race changing it's best you look elsewhere.

If your concern is that .03% (hehe) then I suggest you go troll.


Hmm, that's like saying don't bother enchanting your cape and wrists because it's a .03% increase in dps.
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90 Draenei Shaman
16690
12/28/2012 11:48 PMPosted by Droodzon
Hmm, that's like saying don't bother enchanting your cape and wrists because it's a .03% increase in dps.


Hey now. There's a difference between spending a negligible amount of gold and 25$, and both of the examples you listed are worth a bit more than .03% >.>

12/28/2012 11:38 PMPosted by Droodzon
You need to wait after a GCD to use it


The big thing is that AG isn't completely off the GCD (meaning you can't use it mid-spell,) but doesn't invoke a GCD either. It's not terribly difficult to use at the end of a cast. The big thing is getting together with your healers to plan your AGs so that you generally know when it's going to be needed so that you can make sure you've got a 7-stack Fulm ready at some point during the AG & that you'll get at least 2 Lava Bursts & EB off during it.

12/28/2012 11:38 PMPosted by Droodzon
It just requires alot of concentration.


Can't say that I've had that problem T_T The only issue I've had is the planning required to maximize each use.
Edited by Gistwiki on 12/29/2012 1:25 AM PST
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90 Draenei Shaman
16690
UE's not bad for pvp burst when you need to line stuff up to kill someone, but it's worth noting two things with that:

1) It's not worth using in PvE without Unleashed Fury
2) On average Lava Burst does more damage than Elemental Blast. With or without UE.
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90 Troll Druid
4050


Hey now. There's a difference between spending a negligible amount of gold and 25$, and both of the examples you listed are worth a bit more than .03%

It was just a mistake on my part. I thought the guy meant that racials didn't matter in which case I tried to compare tuaren vs Panda. But he was responding to people comparing Panda to Troll.


The big thing is that AG isn't completely off the GCD (meaning you can't use it mid-spell,) but doesn't invoke a GCD either. It's not terribly difficult to use at the end of a cast. The big thing is getting together with your healers to plan your AGs so that you generally know when it's going to be needed so that you can make sure you've got a 7-stack Fulm ready at some point during the AG & that you'll get at least 2 Lava Bursts & EB off during.


I meant to say that you shouldn't use it right after an instant or else you'll waste 1 or two seconds of the timer. You need to wait for the GCD to finish after an instant LvB or Earthshock.


Can't say that I've had that problem T_T The only issue I've had is the planning required to maximize each use.


Yes, there is a lot of planning and communication required. Sometimes I'll pop it out like on Elegon, and save the healers a ton of mana, and its worth it then, but most of the time, I find that the numbers are close enough that its much easier to use HTT. AG has the better numbers, but its less of a chore to use HTT for me personally.

My guild isn't doing any heroics so I find its less about min/maxing and more about just using what's available to you to get past the normals.
Edited by Droodzon on 12/31/2012 5:59 PM PST
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90 Draenei Shaman
16690
12/31/2012 05:57 PMPosted by Droodzon
I meant to say that you shouldn't use it right after an instant or else you'll waste 1 or two seconds of the timer.


This is only really true if there are no spells in the air. Spells in the air will give healing from AG so long as AG is up before they hit. So if you were to use an instant Lava Burst & AG while it's in the air, it's not wasted time in the least. After an ES though, I agree with.

12/31/2012 05:57 PMPosted by Droodzon
but its less of a chore to use HTT for me personally.


Whatever works for you. Generally good to use what you're comfortable with so long as there isn't a huge numbers gap, because you tend to be better with what you're comfortable with.
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90 Orc Shaman
9085
Is there a good shaman addon for tracking lightning shield stacks? I really don't like using many add-ons and I can't figure out a way to simply move the single LS buff to my character pane.
Edited by Madfrog on 1/7/2013 10:17 PM PST
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90 Draenei Shaman
16690
01/07/2013 10:12 PMPosted by Madfrog
Is there a good shaman addon for tracking lightning shield stacks? I really don't like using many add-ons and I can't figure out a way to simply move the single LS buff to my character pane.


Could probably figure out a way to make weakauras or powerauras do it. ShieldsUp is another decent shield addon.
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90 Tauren Shaman
7575
Hi there -

Thanks for this guide, and all the advice that follows. It has helped me out a lot.

I have a quick trinket question. I am part of a casual raiding group (one night a week) and our progression is slow. I have the Relic of Yu'lon, and have upgraded it twice as I see it remains BiS through the heroic tier. My question is about the other trinket - I have the Essence of Terror raid finder version, and have been using it instead of the ilvl 489 Jade Magistrate Figurine (+1079 int, on use crit bonus) which I think is the right thing to do.

Am I right that there is nothing better than the raid finder Essence of Terror, until I can get the normal version? Given the time that I think it will take me to get there, I think it will be worth the valor points to upgrade this trinket as well.

Thoughts?
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90 Draenei Shaman
16690
01/09/2013 09:38 AMPosted by Toraak
My question is about the other trinket - I have the Essence of Terror raid finder version, and have been using it instead of the ilvl 489 Jade Magistrate Figurine (+1079 int, on use crit bonus) which I think is the right thing to do.


Remember that the simc posted in the thread is based upon T14H BiS gear, and won't necessarily be 100% correct for your particular gear situation. LFR EoT is almost certainly stronger than the Jade Magistrate Figurine in any case though. The trinket I'm thinking might be able to gain some ground could be Normal Mode Light of the Cosmos (Elegon.) I'd sim that against LFR EoT in your current gear and see what it gives you.

It'd be really close either way, and it's worth playing around with if nobody else wants it.
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90 Draenei Shaman
9530
Thanks for the guide. all is good wish there were more macros. Also you have a lot of crit on the gear even tho it is least needed. i have been passing over crit gear for haste, in some cases just to not waste currency.
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90 Troll Shaman
18125
Random question, with the buff to primal ele's (80% stronger now in 5.2) will Orc end up being the better race to go with IF trying to min/max?

Or will troll still end up ahead since there will be a few beast bosses in ToT?
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90 Draenei Shaman
16690
Couldn't tell ya. Don't pay attention much to racials T_T

Probably Troll till you get the legendary meta, where their racial on use just plain exacerbates the issue.
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90 Troll Shaman
10110
Troll for the 5% dmg bonus on half the bosses is crazy. There's no way it'll go live right?

Beast damage aside, Troll will lose a significant amount of value next tier with the 4pc breaking the Berserking/Ascendance combo, as well as just getting haste everywhere (legendary meta, trinket procs, EM etc.)

I think that if PE sims out to be the best damage, Orc will most likely end up being the best (assuming Troll +5% beast damage is nerfed), as blood fury will generally line up with the reduced CD Ascendance, and +damage to pets on top of an already significant elemental will be icing on the cake.
Edited by Azloran on 2/6/2013 8:24 AM PST
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90 Draenei Shaman
16690
02/06/2013 08:22 AMPosted by Azloran
as blood fury will generally line up with the reduced CD Ascendance


You'll hold it for around 20 seconds on each one, but that's probably going to end up being best practice depending on fight length.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
10450
The following is a set of simcraft results for the relevant elemental trinkets this tier:

http://totemspot.com/simc/Shaman_Elemental_T14H_Trinkets.html


Is this list only simulating the non upgraded versions of these trinkets? And if so, where is a good place to find a sim of the trinkets that have been upgraded either 1/2 or 2/2 times?
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