PvP Spec is Combat!

90 Gnome Rogue
3345
Hey all. I know some of you subs out there are complaining that you can't do much damage now. I was one of you, but atleast a week or two ago, I found out that the new PvP spec is... Combat. Assassination may be good, and it may be the best depending on your playstyle.

Sub was only good in Cata because of Shadowstep, Shadowdance, and a few other nifty tools. Now, all specs can use shadowstep (Though I think Preparation is better on many levels.)

Some of you may be wondering why combat? It was a PvE spec, true, but now, it is better than ever. You can do a large amount of damage to one target, and a fair amount of damage to multiple targets, almost like a decent DPS mixed with CCs, which, honestly, is far more useful than Assassination. With Combat, we stand a chance in large groups due to the damage we can dish out. Also to mention, killing spree is a godsend.

So give it a shot, and you may NEVER turn back to the other specs. :D
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86 Night Elf Rogue
4735
~8 second stuns. I want to grab a couple of axes and give it a try now that it has legs.
Edited by Troelsen on 9/22/2012 2:03 PM PDT
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90 Undead Rogue
7200
mercader, the rogue version of swifty, went assassination. Therefore every rogue is now assassination
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
5500
Sub is fine, the burst is pretty unparalleled.
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10 Goblin Rogue
10610
09/22/2012 01:58 PMPosted by Gulbon
Sub was only good in Cata because of Shadowstep, Shadowdance, and a few other nifty tools. Now, all specs can use shadowstep (Though I think Preparation is better on many levels.)


Sub was good in Cata because, by the end of the expansion, it was better offensively, defensively, and in utility.

It wasn't a "few tools", it was the entire spec. It was the perfect PvP machine, which is why it got neutered.

Good news is that Combat is not completely unusable in PvP. Bad news is that the other two specs are still better, and Combat is still a gimmick, at best, in a PvP setting. (For now.)
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90 Undead Rogue
3610
Tried out combat again yesterday, and unfortunately it just didn't work for me at all in PVP, which is annouying because all through cata I was combat. For me, the nature damage of poison sidestepping armor, and being able to better focus on one target just seems to work better for me now. As for Killing spree, I love it, but I'd love it more if it only hit the one damn target. :(
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
6040
09/22/2012 02:10 PMPosted by Nerve
mercader, the rogue version of swifty, went assassination. Therefore every rogue is now assassination


lol mercader was combat at the begining of lich king.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdEyq6DLYLY

All the sub humpers may say otherwise but I think combat is looking the best it has in a long time. Im doubltful we will see too many rogues rocking combat in high arena rating though.
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86 Night Elf Rogue
4735
09/22/2012 02:10 PMPosted by Nerve
mercader, the rogue version of swifty, went assassination. Therefore every rogue is now assassination
Now thoser names I haven't heard in a long time.
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90 Undead Rogue
6820
combat is far too dependent on adrenaline rush and killing spree
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90 Undead Rogue
17350
09/22/2012 02:17 PMPosted by Failrogue
I think combat is looking the best it has in a long time.


That doesn't really say much with how bad its been for so long. Is mists combat better than cata combat yes, but it just far to weak without cd's and its cd's are much longer in pvp than pve making its dmg to gimmicky in pvp.

Before they nerfed sinister strike 3 patches in a row combat pvp was looking good at 90 but now its just all cd based dmg again.
Edited by Gankz on 9/22/2012 4:17 PM PDT
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9 Undead Rogue
0
MERCADER is bad. Makes videos of himself showing how to counter classes, Plays low rated players. Never in his videos does he duel glads.
Edited by Mézz on 9/22/2012 6:01 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Rogue
14645
I think combat is looking the best it has in a long time.


That doesn't really say much with how bad its been for so long. Is mists combat better than cata combat yes, but it just far to weak without cd's and its cd's are much longer in pvp than pve making its dmg to gimmicky in pvp.

Before they nerfed sinister strike 3 patches in a row combat pvp was looking good at 90 but now its just all cd based dmg again.


People seem to forget that combat was actually glad-viable for a season or so in Wrath due to high armor penetration. During that period, combat became viable because of the absurd burst it was able to put out, which is very similar to the burst its one again capable of doing.

Of course, you have to remember that we're 85 right now; the situation for combat is a good bit different at 90.

Combat is indeed a very gimmicky spec, but that gimmick also makes it a very strong one when it has its time in the spotlight. Gimmicky 3-minute-mage style specs can be very potent in arena, for much the same reason that legendaries+vial made us unstoppable early last season.
Edited by Leitka on 9/22/2012 6:30 PM PDT
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90 Undead Rogue
17350
09/22/2012 06:29 PMPosted by Leitka
Of course, you have to remember that we're 85 right now; the situation for combat is a good bit different at 90.

I've been in beta since the second wave of inv's months ago everything I said was from my 90 view point. Going from 30-35% crit at 85 to 14% in the best pvp gear you can get in s12 isn't going to help burst a lot. Yea we get shadow blades but the burst for all three specs is very very rng at 90.
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90 Pandaren Rogue
14645
09/22/2012 07:23 PMPosted by Gankz
Of course, you have to remember that we're 85 right now; the situation for combat is a good bit different at 90.

I've been in beta since the second wave of inv's months ago everything I said was from my 90 view point. Going from 30-35% crit at 85 to 14% in the best pvp gear you can get in s12 isn't going to help burst a lot. Yea we get shadow blades but the burst for all three specs is very very rng at 90.


...You obviously misread the exact opposite into what I said.
To clarify;
"Killing spree is deadly as !@#$ at 85. It won't be at 90."
Hopefully that's less ambiguous to you.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
6040
09/22/2012 06:29 PMPosted by Leitka
Combat is indeed a very gimmicky spec, but that gimmick also makes it a very strong one when it has its time in the spotlight. Gimmicky 3-minute-mage style specs can be very potent in arena, for much the same reason that legendaries+vial made us unstoppable early last season.


Lol like shadowdance last season wasnt a gimmic, with a rogue with vail and legendaries, whenever you heard the that shadowdance sound thing u knew it was gg... only difference was shadowdance/spambush was a 1 minute gimmick and kill spree is a 2 minute.
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90 Human Rogue
12165
09/22/2012 09:17 PMPosted by Failrogue
Combat is indeed a very gimmicky spec, but that gimmick also makes it a very strong one when it has its time in the spotlight. Gimmicky 3-minute-mage style specs can be very potent in arena, for much the same reason that legendaries+vial made us unstoppable early last season.


Lol like shadowdance last season wasnt a gimmic, with a rogue with vail and legendaries, whenever you heard the that shadowdance sound thing u knew it was gg... only difference was shadowdance/spambush was a 1 minute gimmick and kill spree is a 2 minute.


It was GG if you had absolutely no cooldowns or didn't know how to use them...
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
6040
09/22/2012 09:20 PMPosted by Zanumas
It was GG if you had absolutely no cooldowns or didn't know how to use them...


u mean no trinket after the stun that usually started the shadowdance?
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i have been rolling sub for this patch and im doing fine. granted killing spree is good. but i don't think its gonna have a lot of utility in arenas. i don't like bouncing from char to char. its dumb imo.
sub deff has the utility still. just not the crazy burst everyone is looking for.
u have to mess with ur spec to make it work like you want it to.
assass honestly (imo) has the most utility without cds. cuz honestly all ur using for burst is some lousy vendetta that u don't see doing that much damage anyways. i top the dmg charts in assass but i can't really land as many kbs as i can in sub.

so im rolling sub guys. no matter what. im dedicated and im sticking to the way im playing. combats not something ANYONES gonna use at lvl 90. killing spree is the dumbest thing i've ever heard a rogue doing. thats a pve spec and should stay that way. it might be good for duels cuz of the 9 second stun that follows a killing spree. but it has no utility in arenas. why pop a vanish in arenas for a sap off of a blind or a hex when u can just shadowdance. and shadowstep dance ur target?

makes no sense why people would go combat in the expansion. just my opinion tho.
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90 Pandaren Rogue
14645
Anyone thats played combat for a long period of time can tell you that it's very possible to direct KS. You just have to be good at estimating distance.

Ks won't jump to a target that wasn't initially in its range.
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90 Undead Rogue
8650
09/22/2012 09:57 PMPosted by Leitka
Ks won't jump to a target that wasn't initially in its range.

Idk if this is still true. I think I've had some people enter the range during it and jump to them. That said it indeed is very directable. Not as controllable as a non-random jump would be, but still controllable.
Gouge not generating cp is such a wonderful thing. I wish I still had it for free and it lasted longer but being able to gouge an off-target before Spree'ing now, without building cp on them is great.

09/22/2012 07:23 PMPosted by Gankz
Going from 30-35% crit at 85 to 14% in the best pvp gear you can get in s12 isn't going to help burst a lot.

Good thing combat's burst isn't crit dependent then isn't it?

Someone mentioned the cooldowns being too long in PvP due to not using dmg'ing finishers.
This has been a change we've been begging for for a while now: Make Restless Blades trigger from "offensive" finishers. (This would include all the dmg'ing ones and Kidney Shot)
I think that kiting using Shuriken and Deadly Throw might help with making better use of Restless Blades... but ofc that means we'd lose out on Nerve Strike which is pretty damn nice.

Combat will not be in a good place this season in arenas. I'll be using it, but it'll be tough to say the least. I kinda wish we'd just kept all the control we had in Cata and didn't gain the ability to actually do decent dmg.
Edited by Kiljagen on 9/22/2012 10:12 PM PDT
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