The Holy Shock Nerf is My Fault: the Movie

90 Human Paladin
7020
Yes, I've done another video, everyone. And here it is:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RBgQhycr9U

The main focus of the video was how the Holy Shock nerf has its positive aspects---if Holy Shock (which generates Holy power) deals more damage than Denounce (which doesn't generate Holy power), then a soloing holy paladin will have a lot of Holy Power sitting around, and no damaging spells to spend that Holy Power on---unless he gets Glyph of Harsh Words. So the pre-nerf setup essentially made Glyph of Harsh Words a must-have glyph.

Now that Holy Shock deals less damage than Denounce, a soloing holy paladin won't have a lot of Holy Power sitting around, and therefore Glyph of Harsh Words is now a nifty option that works will with Glyph of Holy Shock. And glyphs are supposed to be nifty options. Ergo, the nerf actually helps the overall design of the class. If holy needs more overall DPS, Blizz can just increase the damage of Denounce and/or Holy Shock later.

All that being said...the thing that's on my mind the most right now, and the thing I ended the video with, is the fact that Holy has no AoE damage options. I very strongly believe that this will severely hurt the leveling and questing experience from 85-90, and that Blizzard should address this quickly, before (or at the very least very shortly after) the MoP questing experience begins, and it should be easy enough for Blizzard to make Holy Wrath and/or Consecration available to Holy specs to make that happen.

I certainly hope all this posting and video-making is doing something; I've done about three videos mentioning or even focusing on the issue of holy paladins' lack of AoE damage, and I've not heard a peep about this getting fixed anywhere! It's pretty discouraging...
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90 Human Paladin
8240
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nshg9YCcGPA

hi
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9690
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nshg9YCcGPA

hi

What's the name of that addon that shows that bar with what im guessing is the enemy team's interupts/CC?
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90 Human Paladin
7020
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nshg9YCcGPA

hi


Hehe...that is a pretty lol vid, it does showcase how powerful holy paladins were before the nerf.

I'd gladly trade that OP-ness for an AoE spell, though
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90 Dwarf Paladin
4635
Great video Longwriter.
I think there's a few more things that are keeping holy paladin tools at bay. But people like yourself addressing them in a constructive manner, will hopefully get the attention of the right people.

Plate.
If we have the ability to do any decent damage, our healing needs to take a hit.
I had suggested a while back that a glyph be made in some form that would help that.

For example: "Glyph of Insight - Fills you with Holy Light, increasing your casting speed by 10%, improving DAMAGING spells by 5%, reducing healing spells by 75%, and giving RANGED attacks a chance to restore 4% of base mana."

There would need to be a lockout on seal swap macros for healing. Maybe you cannot switch back to seal of insight for 30 seconds if you switch seals. I'm no dev though, just an idea.

Holy Power Dump
You're 100% correct. I had stated before that the combo builder should NEVER hit harder than the finisher. The Holy Shock nerf was indeed very necessary. But we need something else to spend our holy power on, else as you stated, we will just spam denounce all day.

How about Light of Dawn getting the same treatment as Harsh Word? And it goes back the the old frontal cone-style so it needs to be aimed and a bit of timing and skill. This is interesting to me as a gameplay mechanic because you would then need to choose what to spend holy power on; doing AoE and single target damage.
It could easily be put on the same glyph because you cannot use both abilities at the same time. Though it would be considered a mandatory glyph for soling, it still has choice in which spell to use and when.

Keep up the constructive feedback.
Edited by Tairran on 9/23/2012 5:54 AM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
7020
Holy Power Dump
You're 100% correct. I had stated before that the combo builder should NEVER hit harder than the finisher. The Holy Shock nerf was indeed very necessary. But we need something else to spend our holy power on, else as you stated, we will just spam denounce all day.


Well, in a way, we have that: Holy Shock deals slightly less damage than Denounce unglyphed, so glyphed, it'll deal more damage than Denounce, and therefore be at the top of your priority queue. And if you're going to spend a major glyph on buffing holy damage over healing, you might as well spend a major glyph slot to give yourself a finisher, too (i.e get Glyph of Harsh Words). So we can use glyphs to get ourselves to the point where we look like a DPS caster. It's true that, without those glyphs, we're spamming Denounce all day, but, to be fair, we are primarily healers. Maybe it's a matter of personal taste, but I'm satisfied with the setup where we have to glyph to become caster-ish; I'm just really feeling the hurt from not having any AoE damage spells available to me. (And I wouldn't be satisfied if I had to glyph to get an AoE damage spell, either.)

Plate.
If we have the ability to do any decent damage, our healing needs to take a hit.
I had suggested a while back that a glyph be made in some form that would help that.

For example: "Glyph of Insight - Fills you with Holy Light, increasing your casting speed by 10%, improving DAMAGING spells by 5%, reducing healing spells by 75%, and giving RANGED attacks a chance to restore 4% of base mana."


Glyph of Holy Shock cuts the healing of one of our most important healing spells in half in exchange for more damage; I think that's a pretty balanced and reasonable tradeoff, and fairly close to what you've suggested.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
4635
And I wouldn't be satisfied if I had to glyph to get an AoE damage spell, either.


I can relate to that. I was just thinking it would be an interesting mechanic to use Light of Dawn as our AoE because you'd have the option to choose what to spend holy power on.
Edited by Tairran on 9/23/2012 9:58 AM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
7020
Yeah...I just played through the Fall of Theramore scenario twice today, and the lack of an AoE really, really hurt the experience. I was playing alongside a Holy priest, and guess what he was using on those packs? Mind Sear. The one and only priest AoE damage spell, which Blizzard left in just for soloing Holy/Disc priests.

To be honest, I think the real reason Holy paladins have no AoE is because, for a while during the Beta, our main nuke was an AoE. That's right: the earlier versions of Denounce were called Holy Wrath, and were an AoE. We gave them feedback that having an AoE as our main nuke was a bad idea, so they changed to to Denounce, then Protection said they needed an instant AoE for stunning undead/demons/dragons/elementals, so they gave Holy Wrath back to them. But they didn't review the Holy damage kit to give them an AoE after changing Holy Wrath into Denounce.

...You know, that narrative really makes it sound like Blizzard paid attention to player feedback about damage kits; here's hoping that they keep that pattern up!

And I really, really hope Blizzard releases a patch 5.0.7 or something that gives Holy paladins Consecration and/or Holy Wrath; the lack of AoE really is a buzzkiller!
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90 Human Warlock
9910
Can I say Holy Shock is still > Denounce in Priority BECAUSE, the damage is similar and Holy Shock is an instant making it > Denounce in priority because an instant that deals 1k-2k less damage with 25% higher chance to crit is better than a casted spell (even the glyphed one) due to GCDs and crit

I do agree it needed to be nerfed, but you are incorrect about priority
Edited by Begus on 9/23/2012 7:56 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
13505
It's true: holy doesn't really have any solo AoE ability or anything to spend holy power on outside of Harsh Words. I do doubt that it was simply overlooked, as that doesn't seem like the type of mistake they would make after all these years and after all the feedback.

What I do believe is that there's some other balance issue they're considering (likely PvP). It's probably that they don't want to give holy a spammable AoE that can ruin stealthers. The obvious solution would be to make it require a target like Mind Sear. Introducing and balancing new spell instead of a replacement is a lot more work though. Holy Wrath being introduced to the holy spec could work and would probably be the easiest solution, as Longwriter has suggested.

Because of this and everything else that needs to be done for MoP, holy AoE is probably on the back burner. Let's face it: it's not the most important thing on the stove right now, although it certainly is annoying to anyone wanting to level as holy. I wouldn't be surprise to see this addresses shortly after MoP goes live, although it will probably be the next major patch unless there's a lot of fuss about it. As for the holy power finisher, that likely is even less of a priority because of the glyph.

Let me state that I doubt it's something they just don't care about. It's probably just a matter of priorities right now.
Edited by Velishra on 9/24/2012 12:47 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
7020
Can I say Holy Shock is still > Denounce in Priority BECAUSE, the damage is similar and Holy Shock is an instant making it > Denounce in priority because an instant that deals 1k-2k less damage with 25% higher chance to crit is better than a casted spell (even the glyphed one) due to GCDs and crit

I do agree it needed to be nerfed, but you are incorrect about priority


Ooo, forgot about the 25% increased chance to crit; that does put it over Denounce.

09/24/2012 12:46 PMPosted by Velishra
Because of this and everything else that needs to be done for MoP, holy AoE is probably on the back burner. Let's face it: it's not the most important thing on the stove right now, although it certainly is annoying to anyone wanting to level as holy. I wouldn't be surprise to see this addresses shortly after MoP goes live, although it will probably be the next major patch unless there's a lot of fuss about it. As for the holy power finisher, that likely is even less of a priority because of the glyph.


I'm hoping that, either a few days or a few weeks from now, Blizzard will release a patch 5.0.7 or something like it that'll take care of this---that's what I'm aiming for at the moment. I figure there'll be a few bugs crawling out of the woodwork shortly after the go-live tomorrow, so it makes sense that there'd be a patch shortly after launch. I'm hoping oh so very much that they see fit to give Holy either Consecration, Holy Wrath, or both.

A more permanent solution would be to make Denounce work with Seal of Righteousness so that, when SoR is active, Denounce deals AoE damage. With Seal of Truth or Seal of Insight, it'd be single-target damage instead. That permanent solution can wait for 5.1, but I really think that we need to have the band-aid solution of having Consecration and/or Holy Wrath available for Holy specs sooner than that.
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