The Night Elves and the Tauren.

62 Tauren Paladin
8080
I'm just trying to figure this out as it's been beating around my brain, so I hope you guys here at the Story Forum can help!

1) The Tauren were on the brink of extinction. The flaw here is that they were ancient allies of the Night Elves because of the Altered Timeline. Now the question here is why wouldn't the Night Elves, who at that time were predominant over Kalimdor, have aided the Tauren? Was it due to the Tauren being too prideful? No, remember they accepted Thrall's aid. It seems as if they just didn't care.

2) With that, it can be said that they were only friends with the Sentinles, and the druids wouldn't have cared. But the flaw here is that because the Tauren weren't brand spanking new to druidism with WoW, they were druids previously. It was even said that Cenarius taught them directly. So it just doesn't make too much sense if you ask me.

And due to noticing my question is a bit.. Well, all over the place, this is a nice way to tie it in.

09/23/2012 11:43 AMPosted by Amadis
What is WCIII's actual history now that time has been altered? That's what the real question is, I think.
Edited by Rahddon on 9/23/2012 12:22 PM PDT
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85 Troll Rogue
4665
The Night Elves are jerks.
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85 Blood Elf Rogue
12050
Maybe they didn't know how bad the situation for the Tauren was? IIRC they pretty much kept to their forests after the War of the Ancients, while the Tauren were on the open plains, far to the south.
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90 Human Death Knight
11460
The reach of the Sentinels didn't extend into the Barrens; they seemed happy enough with their forests.

And as far as we know, Cairne didn't send a runner to the night elves going 'oh my god help, centaurs are killing us.'
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62 Tauren Paladin
8080
09/23/2012 11:20 AMPosted by Allanya
Maybe they didn't know how bad the situation for the Tauren was? IIRC they pretty much kept to their forests after the War of the Ancients, while the Tauren were on the open plains, far to the south.

09/23/2012 11:20 AMPosted by Caliginous
The reach of the Sentinels didn't extend into the Barrens; they seemed happy enough with their forests.

Both very true, but at the very same time, both races were druids, who existed as part of ther Cen Circle. Beyond just that, it wasn't just as if all the tribes were huddled inside the Barrens. There were multiple, but yet we still hear of how the Tauren were on the edge of extinction.

And while the Night Elves may not have been in the Barrens; Stonetalon (Due to they had a large presence in Feralas) and Thousand Needles were still about. It's just odd to believe a predominant race like the Night Elves wouldn't observe something happening right next door to them.
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90 Human Death Knight
11460
Maybe all the runners the tauren sent to ask for help got eaten by centaurs.
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90 Night Elf Druid
15060
09/23/2012 11:01 AMPosted by Rahddon
because of the Altered Timeline.

You know, this is something I don't see people bring up much about: we know the history as portrayed by WCIII, and we're told what the War of the Ancients was like before the Altered Timeline, and then we know what the War of the Ancients was in the Altered Timeline.

What we don't know is what WCIII is like in the Altered Timeline.

With the Altered Timeline, having met and come to revere Broxigar, allied with the tauren, all these things, would the night elves have really acted at all the way they originally did in WCIII? They would have already known what an orc was (they would have had a statue of one around for ten thousand years), as well as humans. Knaak's portrayal of Tyrande is much softer than her orginal WCIII portrayal, both before when WCIII would have happened in Warcraft: War of the Ancients Archive and after WCIII would have happened in Stormrage (whether this is a good or bad thing is a different discussion).

So it's a really false question. Why did the night elves act the way they did before time was altered to change history to give them tauren allies? Because time hadn't been altered yet.

What is WCIII's actual history now that time has been altered? That's what the real question is, I think.
Edited by Amadis on 9/23/2012 12:07 PM PDT
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85 Night Elf Druid
0
Your answer is that the retconned timeline is a bunch of bunk and will never make sense. We may just as well ask why the Tauren sent the Orcs to Ashenvale without warning them about the Night Elves. Doesn't really make sense. And probably never will. My advice: forget the retcon ever happened.
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62 Tauren Paladin
8080
09/23/2012 11:43 AMPosted by Amadis
What is WCIII's actual history now that time has been altered? That's what the real question is, I think.


This is actually a far better way of phrasing it. May I use this in the OP?

09/23/2012 11:50 AMPosted by Lyrtes
Doesn't really make sense. And probably never will. My advice: forget the retcon ever happened.

That is true. But eh, I dunno. I just am curious as of this point, and as posted above you, it was stated a far better way of phrasing the question.
Edited by Rahddon on 9/23/2012 11:58 AM PDT
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90 Tauren Druid
7415
Stupid Blizzard storytelling and its inability to actually clear up lore when they are the ones mucking it up to begin with.

The Taurens and the Night Elves should have been very long standing allies on Kalimdor. There is no reason for them not to have been. It is also very had to believe that the races did not cross paths regardless of any retcons or time alterations.

Stonealton Mountains, Feralas, Northern Barrens borders.... It is practically inconceivable to think that in 10,000 years, there would be an absolute lack of any contact regardess of the timeline.

The Tauren and the Night Elves should have had a friendly relationship and the Tauren should have never been on the brink of extinction having that relationship.

The Tauren would never had had put the survival of their race on the Orcs and have to join the Horde, which as an organization I just don't see as in line with Tauren beliefs.
Edited by ALIAS on 12/7/2012 10:38 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
5780
09/23/2012 11:15 AMPosted by Sgtcrispy
The Night Elves are jerks.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9145
The Night Elves and Tauren have a blood feud going on according to the War of the Shifting Sands short story. The Scarab Lord mentioned it.

I hope it was started because a few sentinels made Jerky outta one of the former chiefs.

That's be swell.
Edited by Ferlion on 9/23/2012 12:09 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
15060
To Rahddon: Sure, you can use that line in your original post if you'd like.

To Kamisucara: I rather agree with you. Additionally, there was a point in WCIII were Malfurion saw the orcs and the humans and suggested to Tyrande that they could all be allies (which they ultimately did become... and then unbecame? Once again, a different discussion), but Tyrande very quickly shut the idea down. With Knaak's very different portrayal of Tyrande, and the altering of history, one would imagine that it wouldn't have just been the tauren who should have been closer allies to the night elves, but the orcs and humans as well.
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62 Tauren Paladin
8080
It's just really something I feel is really strange to have. I mean, it's not just "They need to be Horde, we have no races to choose from!" since goblins and ogres were right there or anything. But eh, I suppose I have my own opinions. It just doesn't make all that much sense to me.
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85 Tauren Shaman
6230
Originally, before Blizz made the "Orcs turn good-ish" plot decision. They were going to enslave the Tauren.
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26 Worgen Hunter
150
10,000 years is a very long time for them to distance themselves from each other.
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26 Worgen Hunter
150
Stupid !@#$ed up Blizzard storytelling and its inability to actually clear up lore when they are the ones mucking it up to begin with.

The Taurens and the Night Elves should have been very long standing allies on Kalimdor. There is no reason for them not to have been. It is also very had to believe that the races did not cross paths regardless of any retcons or time alterations.

Stonealton Mountains, Feralas, Northern Barrens borders.... It is practically inconceivable to think that in 10,000 years, there would be an absolute lack of any contact regardess of the timeline.

The Tauren and the Night Elves should have had a friendly relationship and the Tauren should have never been on the brink of extinction having that relationship.

The Tauren would never had had put the survival of their race on the Orcs and have to join the Horde, which as an organization I just don't see as in line with Tauren beliefs.


Unless it were the Grimtotem who dealt with the Night Elves, that would just leave a bad taste in their mouths I think.

The tauren tribes were scattered back then. It wasn't the tauren as a whole who were nearing extinction but the Bloodhoof Clan. Cairne brought the other clans together during the founding of Thunderbluff which allowed for he different clans to not only grow but to merge.

That's how I explain it to myself anyway. Night Elves had a run in with Grimtotem,who are much mroe aggressive than the average tauren, and refused to have any dealings with the race as a whole ever since.
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Let's put it like this...

It took modern humans all of 5,000 years to go to every continent and come in contact with every nation or tribe of consequence

I find it hard to believe the tauren couldn't in 10,000.

Of course, the biggest issue is the writing. When WC3 was put out, I don't think the War of the Ancients was even conceived, much less the idea that the Kaldorei were old acquaintances of both Earthen and Tauren.
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90 Night Elf Priest
16575
Let's put it like this...

It took modern humans all of 5,000 years to go to every continent and come in contact with every nation or tribe of consequence

I find it hard to believe the tauren couldn't in 10,000.

Of course, the biggest issue is the writing. When WC3 was put out, I don't think the War of the Ancients was even conceived, much less the idea that the Kaldorei were old acquaintances of both Earthen and Tauren.


I imagine you mean the book rather than the war itself? Because the war was definitely part of WC3's lore.
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88 Blood Elf Paladin
7585
Note to self: All Elves are xenophobic jerks.
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