Shared Shock Cooldown still needed?(Blue plz)

90 Orc Shaman
13750


Er, actually, Flame Shock is the highest dps-per-action spell Enhancement has going into Mists. So, no, you aren't losing dps when you cast it. If it was a dps loss to cast Flame Shock, Enhancement wouldn't cast it.

The first part is sort of a concern, but if they're dying that fast before they had a chance to get grouped up, then AoE probably wasn't necessary. Also, Flame Shock spread via Lava Lash has a cap limit, so - assuming it's a "huge group" - you don't need them all grouped up in the first place to start off.

Sorry I missed your post, too busy fighting trolls. I want our AoE to be improved (with the removes flame shock CD) because I DO NOT like to just sit on my hands at any point while in a group. On my warrior I will even throw (shoot before 5.0) when I cannot get into melee range from some ground effect/whatnot. When I just sit there and auto attack with my magma totem ticking away, I feel like I may as well leave because I am serving no purpose.

I know that flame shock does do a bit more damage than earth shock (obviously it is why we use it), but all we do with it is apply the dot once then just maintain it until the end of the fight. Really, I say screw Ele, Enh needs the complexity added. UE, LL, SS, FS... UE, LL, SS, ES... LB... UE, LB, SS, ES... so complex and interesting...


I can't think of any situations where I'm sitting there auto attacking with my magma totem ticking away. Maybe when I have an open GCD somewhere.

Don't get me wrong here, our AoE could use some work.. but your scenarios are quite confusing. "Huge packs" that you can't AoE on? Chain pulls where you're sitting on your hands?

The priority you listed isn't even close to correct.. and anyway, Enhancement's rotation is interesting enough.

Also, tell me.. what exactly would be different about what you listed if the Shocks were unlinked? We'd still continue to hit FS when it needed to be refreshed and use Earth Shock when there wasn't a higher priority ability available.. which is pretty much exactly what we do now.

If Shocks were unlinked, Enhancement would probably go back to being GCD capped because there wouldn't be anything keeping Frost Shock out of the rotation. I don't want to be completely GCD capped.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
13920
09/22/2012 07:51 PMPosted by Deverill
You would get to throw a few more Earth Shocks, but that is all.

We'd start using Frost Shock, but that really wouldn't change much except we'd be hitting a different button every 15 seconds or so.

I don't agree with you about our priority being boring, but we can't really argue over personal taste :P
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85 Draenei Shaman
9195
From an Enhancement perspective, yes, the priority queue is really boring. Sorry, I have a tendency of always thinking Elemental first these days. Anyways, I got two opinions to give about that.

First, you mentioned AoE. Not all classes/specs are great at AoE. In fact, their AoE DPS performance may vary according to the number of targets they will face and how long will they take to die. For an enhancement shaman, mobs that die too fast will not make he or she top the meters for that AoE encounter since he or she didn't probably have the time to both spread flame shocks and hit with fire nova (forgive me if i am remembering Enh's AoE roration wrong). That being said, I never expect blizzard to make all classes really close balanced around AoE in any number of targets.

Second, I am sorry but I still dont get why taking the shocks away from a shared CD would make an Enchancement PvE priority queue less boring. You would get to throw a few more Earth Shocks, but that is all.

My problem is that Enh and Ele have the framework for GREAT AoE, but are limited by archaic design (Ele not as much now with the introduction of CL spam and the removal of FN). We can't just dot everything up and then FN (hell, we can't even just dot everything up), but every other class has a dot that can be quickly (instantly to all in range or instant spam) applied to a group. My gripes with AoE are primarily over Enh.

Removing the CDs for Enh would not make it interesting, but it would at least be a step forward and a little bit closer to not being incredibly bland.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
13920
09/22/2012 07:57 PMPosted by Lurgarn
but every other class has a dot that can be quickly (instantly to all in range or instant spam) applied to a group

oh, like Lava Lash
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85 Draenei Shaman
9195
09/22/2012 07:54 PMPosted by Hyjinx
Enhancement's rotation is interesting enough.

Dear god no it is not. Enh is about as boring as Arms used to be. All rotation with a proc. Very, very, very, very boring.
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90 Draenei Shaman
9135
09/22/2012 07:56 PMPosted by Chillbronies
I don't agree with you about our priority being boring, but we can't really argue over personal taste :P


I find it boring, but weirdly enough I still like Enhancement as much as i like Elemental! I love all shaman specs, I wish I had 3 specializations.

09/22/2012 07:57 PMPosted by Lurgarn
We can't just dot everything up and then FN (hell, we can't even just dot everything up), but every other class has a dot that can be quickly (instantly to all in range or instant spam) applied to a group.


It takes so many GCDs for a priest or a lock or a hunter (non-surv) to multi-dot. Anyways, we have Magma Totem, thats just one GDC we spend for a 1-min AoE damage. It is not a dot but it does ticks!

I am under the impression you are calling everybody that disagrees with you a troll. As a draenei that bathes himself regularly I find that to be really offensive.
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90 Draenei Shaman
7005
I really hope they're not leaving things the same just to keep some "complexity"(as you guys call it lol) to the pve rotation, as being useful in pvp by having more of a toolkit is much more important than no being bored in pve.
Edited by Palroth on 9/22/2012 8:06 PM PDT
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90 Draenei Shaman
16690
09/22/2012 03:45 PMPosted by Ilybromana
No other class has to make a decision like this


And the decision-making process introduced through the Flame/Earth shock shared cooldown is both unique and enjoyable.

09/22/2012 03:45 PMPosted by Ilybromana
We have one relieable snare (able to talent to be a root), and it forces us to choose between damage (a lot of damage for Ele) or a snare.


We have 3 reliable snares. Amaravati listed them for you. Use them.

09/22/2012 03:45 PMPosted by Ilybromana
We have "put up" with this archaic garbage for far too long.


I go back to the post you quoted:

09/22/2012 03:40 PMPosted by Gistwiki
Define what you mean by archaic here. The context makes it look like you're trying to say bad. It's old, but still interesting and gives us meaningful choices.


Frost Shock could stand to be removed from the shared shock cooldown. It provides an additional choice in pvp, but the third choice in this setup is Damage v different kind of Damage v Utility with a minor damage bonus. Placing Frost Shock in the mix makes it a little onerous to use.

If they added something additional to the rotation to keep it engaging in pve I could see them both dropping the shared shock cd altogether and dropping Flame Shock to a 0s CD, but as it is the only one I could reasonably see them removing from it is Frost Shock.
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90 Draenei Shaman
9135
09/22/2012 08:10 PMPosted by Gistwiki
If they added something additional to the rotation to keep it engaging in pve I could see them both dropping the shared shock cd altogether and dropping Flame Shock to a 0s CD, but as it is the only one I could reasonably see them removing from it is Frost Shock.


What if there was this:

Glyph of Frost Shock
Frost Shock is no longer in the shared Shock CD, but it no longer deals damage. (or "it will only deal damage if a weapon is imbued with Frostbrand")

Done! PvP shamans will get their slow off the Shock trade-off table (but i'm still not sure if they really need that) and PvE shamans will have no way to exploit this for a DPS gain.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
13920
09/22/2012 08:14 PMPosted by Deverill
Done! PvP shamans will get their slow off the Shock trade-off table

That screws over elemental :P
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90 Draenei Shaman
7005
09/22/2012 08:15 PMPosted by Chillbronies
Done! PvP shamans will get their slow off the Shock trade-off table

That screws over elemental :P


What?
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90 Draenei Shaman
16690
Glyph of Frost Shock
Frost Shock is no longer in the shared Shock CD, but it no longer deals damage. (or "it will only deal damage if a weapon is imbued with Frostbrand")


There's only 1 problem I see with this one. We already have too many good Major glyphs. Elemental especially.
Edited by Gistwiki on 9/22/2012 8:18 PM PDT
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90 Draenei Shaman
9135
Done! PvP shamans will get their slow off the Shock trade-off table

That screws over elemental :P


But it would no longer deal damage, would it?

edit;

There's only 1 problem I see with this one. We already have too many good Major glyphs >.>


Well, that is the deal with glyphs, isn't it? All about choices...
Edited by Deverill on 9/22/2012 8:19 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Shaman
13920
09/22/2012 08:18 PMPosted by Deverill
Well, that is the deal with glyphs, isn't it? All about choices...

But we already have too many to make. Losing a PvP fight because you couldn't use the glyph you needed, because you thought you would need another more, sucks.

09/22/2012 08:18 PMPosted by Palroth
What?

They either do no damage (which sucks, because even though it doesn't do a ton of damage, it's still useful) or they have to use an imbue they wouldn't want to.
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90 Draenei Shaman
9135
09/22/2012 08:22 PMPosted by Chillbronies
But we already have too many to make. Losing a PvP fight because you couldn't use the glyph you needed, because you thought you would need another more, sucks.


Weren't you against this whole thing to beggin with? Anyways, I better go to bed.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
13920
09/22/2012 08:25 PMPosted by Deverill
But we already have too many to make. Losing a PvP fight because you couldn't use the glyph you needed, because you thought you would need another more, sucks.


Weren't you against this whole thing to beggin with? Anyways, I better go to bed.

Yeah, but I don't see why that matters :<
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90 Draenei Shaman
7005
09/22/2012 08:22 PMPosted by Chillbronies
Well, that is the deal with glyphs, isn't it? All about choices...

But we already have too many to make. Losing a PvP fight because you couldn't use the glyph you needed, because you thought you would need another more, sucks.

What?

They either do no damage (which sucks, because even though it doesn't do a ton of damage, it's still useful) or they have to use an imbue they wouldn't want to.


He said that it only would do damage with frostbrand, but slow even without.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
13920
09/22/2012 08:28 PMPosted by Palroth

But we already have too many to make. Losing a PvP fight because you couldn't use the glyph you needed, because you thought you would need another more, sucks.


They either do no damage (which sucks, because even though it doesn't do a ton of damage, it's still useful) or they have to use an imbue they wouldn't want to.


He said that it only would do damage with frostbrand, but slow even without.

Yeah, but I'm just saying not being able to do damage sucks.
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90 Orc Shaman
13750
09/22/2012 07:57 PMPosted by Lurgarn
We can't just dot everything up and then FN (hell, we can't even just dot everything up), but every other class has a dot that can be quickly (instantly to all in range or instant spam) applied to a group. My gripes with AoE are primarily over Enh.


AoE as a whole isn't really based on being able to dot everything up, so that doesn't matter much.

Whether the AoE works in Mists depends on the length of AoE encounters. Note: I'm talking about raiding, and maybe Challenge modes. I don't care about AoE in dungeons or Heroics; those should be fine in the gear they're meant to be done with, and after you outscale them, who cares?

Enhancement's rotation is interesting enough.

Dear god no it is not. Enh is about as boring as Arms used to be. All rotation with a proc. Very, very, very, very boring.


Unlinked Shocks don't actually change that, you know.

If anything, you should be arguing for a resource. I seriously doubt they add a resource mechanic mid-expansion, though.

If you think it's boring, don't play it.
Edited by Hyjinx on 9/22/2012 9:28 PM PDT
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