Hand of Purity vs. Clemency for PvP?

90 Human Paladin
5880
I just wanted to see what other rets thought about this tier of talents. I like having Hand of Purity for DoT classes (Shadow Priests, Warlocks, Feral Druids, Death Knights, heck even mages). However, most of those classes (if they are competent players) can remove Hand of Purity.

Clemency like it has potential but only double Hand of Freedom seems useful. Nowadays with all the way to bypass Hand of Protection, it seems useless. What are you guys thoughts on this?
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90 Human Paladin
16000
I find HoPu to be a hit or a miss when it comes to fights overall and Clemency truly isn't worth it due to the fact it's too situational based. Pick up Unbreakable Spirit so DP and DS half a near 50% knocked off their CD. Having immunity bubble up every 2.5mins and having 40% magical mitigation every 30seconds is extremely good.
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90 Human Paladin
16425
OP is asking for PVP. Unbreakable spirit is bad since it requires you to spend Holy Power to speed up the CD. If you aren't in range and fighting then you aren't generating and spending resources to make unbreakable spirit worht it. Besides both bubbles can be dispelled.

PvP wise nothing in great imo. Clemecy is best used for arena's. Double freedom/BoP on your partners is very nice. As is just having double freedom in normal BG's if you get a snare happy enemy.

Hand of purity: Awesome for bleeds since we've never had a way to remove them other than bubble/BoP, but that wastes a forberance. DK's you should be using cleanse aganist.

I prefer Clemenecy atm. PVP at 90 might make change to purity depending on how bad dots are.
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90 Human Paladin
13505
After trying them all, I personally found Unbreakable Spirit to be the best match for my playstyle in battlegrounds. Having Divine Protection up a lot more is great, and combined with the glyph that makes it 20% reduction to everything, it's great to be able to pop that against anyone. It's up almost every fight or multiple times in extended fights.

Clemency was great if there were people around me to support, but combined with talented judgement slow and speed boost, I didn't really find double freedom to be all that useful to me since I could stick in range most of the time anyway. During group PvP it is definitely better, but for the solo queues I do a lot, it wasn't as great.

In the future, if DoT heavy teams pop up in arena, I might see some use out of HoP. Otherwise, I don't see it being that useful honestly. It seems like a really situational talent and I hope that it is changed to something more universally valuable.
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90 Human Paladin
5880
All great responses imo, none are bad and w/o substance.
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90 Human Paladin
7005
I find it really hard to live without two Freedoms. Unbreakable Spirit is okay. HoPurity is very situational but can be useful (imagine if we had it in the last season of Cata with all the damn DoT cleave RBG teams).
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90 Tauren Paladin
10930
Clemency is key for the solo ret PVPer. In focused arena play, I could see taking HoP instead if you have a teammate who can cleanse/free/CC. US doesn't seem worth it for ret.
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90 Human Paladin
5880
So I see that when it comes to this tier of talents we are divided because they all have their uses and are nonetheless good. Most people seem to be leaning towards Clemency I guess.
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90 Human Paladin
0
Mhm, I like Clemency simply for having those two HoFs... Gotten me and whoever I'm healing out of some bad situations from time to time. It also allows you to flippantly cast it on random dazed/slowed friendlies without not having it for personal use later on.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8785
Clemency is just flat out better for both holy and ret, having double sac gives you an extra out against mages when you are off sheep DR, having double bop gives your team a third life anytime you are underneath a double melee paintrain, and double freedom lets you toss around one for free to your healer if hes being trained or something as well as still have one to go offensive with.

hand of purity MIGHT see some play if dotcleaves become extremely popular, but I don't see it really being better than clemency.

Unbreakable spirit is just bad
Edited by Juicenewton on 9/24/2012 4:51 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
5880
After using Clemency for a bit, I do agree that Clemency is the best in that tier.
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90 Human Paladin
8590
Holy Paladin pvp: Clemency/Sacred Shield is the new Judgment, i.e. GCD filler in between heals and dispells.

double boP, double freedom, double Sac. It's a clunky juggle along with the gimpy "kick-me" heal mechanics but I'm finally starting to get a handle on it.

raw healing output leaves something to be desired but if you factor in absorbs its right up there. (use Recount and check the "include absorbs in healing" done box. i dont think default battleground stats count absorbs)
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90 Human Paladin
8370
hand of purity vs dot heavy comps (L.S.D, shadowplay, etc)

clemency vs everything else

clemency is still obviously the best talent in that tier though
Edited by Outplayedx on 9/26/2012 10:47 PM PDT
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90 Tauren Paladin
7845
I have to agree that clemency is the way to go.

Freedom is just too useful in both BG's to escape a melee train - and in Arena to clear off a buddy or get free yourself. For that reason alone it's worth it - but the CC immune factor of Sac for you just makes it the best talent available. Factor in BoP and you have one of the best talents Paladins can get. It's always better to prevent damage than heal it.
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90 Human Paladin
5675
Throwing out double BoPs on 2 different clothies is win.
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