Why does no one object to monarchy?

Something I've never really understood in either lore or players, how come nobody really objects to monarchy as a form of government? I mean in real life, especially Americans, realize how wrong systems that are anti-freedom really are, so how come no player has ever really complained about a system that glorifies a monarchy?

It is really peculiar to me, something I've never rightly understood. People have no problem playing as good characters, heroes, but serving a state where they have no real political rights. Can anyone explain this?

Now in lore, why is there never any conflicts between freedom and authority? I mean sure you have the homeless in Westfall, but that isn't a real political rebellion, just a bunch of dupes conned by the Defias over petty losses.

Where is the battle between freedom and slavery? It just doesn't exist. You have in WoW, all kinds of fighting between good or evil, and since sex is not present in game, you are basically evil in WoW if you kill or torture other people for no reason, but killing and torturing are fine as long as the targets are determined to be "evil", which I never understood.

Stealing really isn't a problem, heck, we make our wealth by killing random "evil" people and monsters and stealing from their corpses. It does NOT seem heroic to take from a person, even a dead villain, I never got that.

But anyway, I digress. The only real sensible racesin the Alliance or Horde are the gnomes and goblins, as they seem to have a meritocractic technocracy and a plutocracy and anarchy, respectively, but really, only the gnomes have an ideal system.

The rest are either monarchies, primitive tribal rule (dictatorships, also), or ruling by warlords. None of them are really democracies or republics, what gives?

Why does no one really recognize this? Where is the struggle about freedom and order? I think it would be great to have an expansion, not focused on good VS evil, but on chaos VS lawfulness, or liberty VS dictatorships.

Really strange that an American game could feature the good guys as being anti-freedom...
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90 Goblin Death Knight
6625
Because thus far, monarchy has worked for them. None of the kings are really bad kings, so why fix what isn't broken? Besides; people in the Alliance are, for what it's worth, free. At least now they are.
Edited by Jonix on 9/22/2012 2:11 AM PDT
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90 Orc Warlock
0
Lord of the Rings would have been better if it had ended with a Bolshevik uprising.
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09/22/2012 02:05 AMPosted by Jonix
Because thus far, monarchy has worked for them. None of the kings are really bad kings, so why fix what isn't broken? Besides; people in the Alliance are, for what it's worth, free. At least now they are.


Yeah Arthas was a perfect prince and became an even better king, didn't he? This argument is sort of broken on the grounds that even a benevolent dictator is still a dictator. You couldn't just call Varian Wrynn an incompetent moron and not get your head chopped off.

EDIT: Not to mention Garrosh! Imagine if people could vote their leaders in the Horde. That would actually make a lot of players happier, I think, especially if players could vote for the next leader in lore. Why not?

09/22/2012 02:08 AMPosted by Kurze
Lord of the Rings would have been better if it had ended with a Bolshevik uprising.


It always amazed me how people have no problem glorifying heroes in Lord of the Rings, but Aragorn in particular, they have no problem becoming an absolute monarch. Hell, Denethor was pretty much despised in the books, so at least it showed the problems of a bad ruler, but what is to stop Aragorn's son from being evil, or even Aragorn from just not liking people with red hair?
Edited by Walorie on 9/22/2012 2:24 AM PDT
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90 Orc Death Knight
3195
09/22/2012 02:08 AMPosted by Kurze
Lord of the Rings would have been better if it had ended with a Bolshevik uprising.


I would see that movie. I'd see it twice.
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90 Goblin Death Knight
6625
Yeah Arthas was a perfect prince and became an even better king, didn't he? This argument is sort of broken on the grounds that even a benevolent dictator is still a dictator. You couldn't just call Varian Wrynn an incompetent moron and not get your head chopped off.

EDIT: Not to mention Garrosh! Imagine if people could vote their leaders in the Horde. That would actually make a lot of players happier, I think, especially if players could vote for the next leader in lore. Why not?


Arthas never became king, and Lordaeron fell when he returned. His fall wasn't enough to be considered a fault in the system of Monarchy. Before he fell, he was -loved- by his people, because he was a -good- prince and a -good- person. He came back from Northrend, completely corrupted, and destroyed Lordaeron and a good chunk of Quel'thalas with the Scourge. In the lore, enough people recognize this that it doesn't warrent looking at changing how monarchy works.

None of the other kingdoms lost a prince/king in quite that fashion. And with the last part, (Insulting the king) i've seen nothing stating you can't do just that. Also, nice hostility.
Edited by Jonix on 9/22/2012 2:58 AM PDT
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Arthas never became king, and Lordaeron fell when he returned. None of the other kingdoms lost a prince/king in quite that fashion. And with the last part, i've seen nothing stating you can't do just that. Also, nice hostility.


Regardless, does nobody have a problem with monarchy just as a system that is anti-freedom by its very design? There must be some serious lack of critical thought going on as people don't even challenge this. Not sure how you find me being hostile?
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90 Goblin Death Knight
6625
09/22/2012 02:54 AMPosted by Jonix
Yeah Arthas was a perfect prince and became an even better king, didn't he?
The sarcasm was, honestly, rude and unneccesary. Made you look like a Troll.

09/22/2012 02:58 AMPosted by Walorie
Regardless, does nobody have a problem with monarchy just as a system that is anti-freedom by its very design? There must be some serious lack of critical thought going on as people don't even challenge this. Not sure how you find me being hostile?


Again; under Varian and before Varian, as far as we are aware it hasn't been anti-freedom. Sure, it's not like democracy or whatever else today where you can vote on things, but you're still effectively free. When a problem presents itself, i imagine they'll start on the path to change it, either by peace or by force.

Also, war. It's not really a good idea to go under major internal revolutions when you're world is under near-constant threat, and you're at war with another faction.
Edited by Jonix on 9/22/2012 3:05 AM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
8315
When you have Genocidal Orcs laying siege to your cities, Demonic Meteor's streaking from the sky, and ancient and unfathomable horrors buried deep in the earth, I think most people would be cool with a monarchy, especially one where the Monarch in question actually cares about his subjects
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90 Goblin Death Knight
6625
09/22/2012 03:06 AMPosted by Arieus
When you have Genocidal Orcs laying siege to your cities, Demonic Meteor's streaking from the sky, and ancient and unfathomable horrors buried deep in the earth, I think most people would be cool with a monarchy, especially one where the Monarch in question actually cares about his subjects
Exactly.
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90 Orc Death Knight
3195
09/22/2012 02:58 AMPosted by Walorie
Arthas never became king, and Lordaeron fell when he returned. None of the other kingdoms lost a prince/king in quite that fashion. And with the last part, i've seen nothing stating you can't do just that. Also, nice hostility.


Regardless, does nobody have a problem with monarchy just as a system that is anti-freedom by its very design? There must be some serious lack of critical thought going on as people don't even challenge this. Not sure how you find me being hostile?


Basically, there's been no need to think outside the box in terms of leadership. All the kings have been good to their people, or good enough that it's never cropped up. Am I right in assuming you are American? Because it's part of American, or alot of other capitalist, democratic cultures to look at a monarchy as a bad thing. And it's not inherently bad. It just has a risk element involved (AKA: What if the next king is a dunce? Or a loon?), but then again, no system is perfect. Monarchy isn't "Anti-freedom" by any means. People can appeal to the king if there is an issue they'd like addressed. And besides, the nobles and other powerful people in the traditional monarch system can be counted on to stage "accidents' for heirs with easily noticed issues of sanity of intellect. Or they can always be booted out and replaced with another noble family. Watch Games Of Thrones and you'll know what I mean.

Of course, this is an "Absolute Monarchy". A "Constitutional Monarchy" is a different kettle of fish altogether and probably the fairer, more democratic form of monarchy, if everyone plays nice. An absolute and sole ruler is a great thing in a crisis, you know.

Anyway, enough rambling from me.
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90 Orc Death Knight
3195
09/22/2012 03:06 AMPosted by Arieus
When you have Genocidal Orcs laying siege to your cities, Demonic Meteor's streaking from the sky, and ancient and unfathomable horrors buried deep in the earth, I think most people would be cool with a monarchy, especially one where the Monarch in question actually cares about his subjects


I agree. This is perfect time to have an intelligent, brave and noble leader to be in your corner, fighting the good fight. Too bad Varian is so stupid be can barely chew.

Sorry, it slipped out.
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90 Goblin Death Knight
6625
09/22/2012 03:15 AMPosted by Kroxxigar
Too bad Varian is so stupid be can barely chew.


At least he's noble and brave?
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100 Night Elf Hunter
20410
Gnomes actually had a democracy with 6 year term limits. Mekkatorque was near the end of his term when he nuked the city, suspended democracy, and declared himself "King of the Gnomes". Not kidding.

http://www.wowwiki.com/High_Tinker

He's now been High Tinker for far longer than his term limit, basically making him a dictator "president for life".
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90 Orc Death Knight
3195
Gnomes actually had a democracy with 6 year term limits. Mekkatorque was near the end of his term when he nuked the city, suspended democracy, and declared himself "King of the Gnomes". Not kidding.

http://www.wowwiki.com/High_Tinker

He's now been High Tinker for far longer than his term limit, basically making him a dictator "president for life".


But he's the good kind of "President for life" where he's only doing it so he can focus all efforts on getting their home back. Not just cause he likes being in charge.
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95 Human Paladin
6570
Gnomerange(misspelled I know) was/is a democracy if I remember right but with the Gnomees being forced from their homes it isn't working as planned. Ironforge is a democratic monarchy with a senate.

I agree that monarchy's are risky but there are some benefits. Not having to wait for a senate to agree to go to war with the bad guys, in this cas Orcs, can allow the military to react quicker. It can also avoid deadlocks that disagreeing senators can create. It's not perfect but it can be good and fair if the monarch is good and fair. Conversely it can be corrupt and unfair if the monarch is corrupt and unfair.

There's also a lack of revelution, sans coups, in Azeroth history. The only really time and place that got close was Westfall, and the Rotbrain camp in the Forsaken starting area.

Edit: Dang spent too much time typing.
Edited by Gabath on 9/22/2012 3:30 AM PDT
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100 Night Elf Hunter
20410
Gnomerange(misspelled I know) was/is a democracy if I remember right but with the Gnomees being forced from their homes it isn't working as planned. Ironforge is a democratic monarchy with a senate.

I agree that monarchy's are risky but there are some benefits. Not having to wait for a senate to agree to go to war with the bad guys, in this cas Orcs, can allow the military to react quicker. It can also avoid deadlocks that disagreeing senators can create. It's not perfect but it can be good and fair if the monarch is good and fair. Conversely it can be corrupt and unfair if the monarch is corrupt and unfair.

There's also a lack of revelution, sans coups, in Azeroth history. The only really time and place that got close was Westfall, and the Rotbrain camp in the Forsaken starting area.

Edit: Dang spent too much time typing.


Downsides of Monarchies is if your leader goes nuts you have to follow them. If The Horde was a democracy, 4/6 races would have voted against Garrosh using the manabomb, or even expanding the war against the Alliance.

On revolutions, every race has had them, but most of them failed. Arguably the Grimtotem have been the most successful. They killed the leader of the Tauren, took over TB, and would have held it if Theramore and Ratchet hadn't backed Baine.
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100 Night Elf Warrior
11570
What you see from the Monarchies in Warcraft are classic examples of the ideal of Monarchy. They are headed by kings who genuinely care about their people, and as a little tidbit are actually representitive of what the ancient Greeks PREFERED (oh, how they hated Democracy...)

Anyway, i find it rather entertaining how American the post is, because it instantly assumes Monarchy = Bad, Democracy = Good. The simple fact is that such a perspective is innanely simplistic, and relagates the situation to a blathering Black/White divide which doesn't actually exist. Then we throw in terms like Order, Chaos, Freedom, Oppression and lots of emotionally weighted baggage...

The simple fact is, Monarchies have advantages ofver democracy. They tend to be politically and economically stable, and can work on long-term plans. Democracies on the other hand are hardly politically stable, are prone to dramatic economic fluxuations, and can only work on a per-election timescale. Both have advantages, and neither is inherently superior to the other.

Monarchies are not inherently anti-freedom, nor are democracies inherently pro-freedom. Because of that simple fact, the OP's complaints are rendered invalid.

That said, there is a disctinction developing between Monarchy and Dictatorship. Garrosh is clearly a dictator, ruling by killing rivals and naysayers. Wyrnn is a Monarch, ruling by birthright (and by actually being a good king).
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100 Night Elf Hunter
20410
09/22/2012 04:38 AMPosted by Caeledor
That said, there is a disctinction developing between Monarchy and Dictatorship. Garrosh is clearly a dictator, ruling by killing rivals and naysayers. Wyrnn is a Monarch, ruling by birthright (and by actually being a good king).


Wyrnn doesn't have to kill naysayers because he already had them all executed, sent heroes to track down the few that resisted (deadmines), and then even killed their children (deadmines Cata).

Also, on him being a "good king"...people are starving to death in the streets of SW, which led many to flee to Westfall...and starve to death there.
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Because monarchy as depicted in WoW isn't a true monarchy.

People have a lot more freedom, social rules of conduct are less strict, and above all, within the game, the system works.

Only one nation in the entire game is not a Monarchy, religious cult, or Empire, and that's Dalaran: it's an oligarchical Republic. Oh, and the Gnomes, but the High Tinker might as well be an elected King

@ Threeslotbag- People in the middle ages starved ALL the time, if you weren't a noble or wealthy merchant. It wasn't the King's job to necesarily make sure everyone in his nation got fed. The King's job is to defend the realm and provide an heir.
Edited by Aurriastraza on 9/22/2012 5:17 AM PDT
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