Why does no one object to monarchy?

100 Night Elf Priest
17460
09/22/2012 10:39 AMPosted by Threeslotbag
During the time that the Defias Brotherhood was formed from the old Masons Guild, Varian barely ruled. He ran from one side of the contry to the other fighting gnolls, ogres and Blackrock Orcs while the nobels of Stormwind did the ruleing.


You make it sound like he's a pretty crappy ruler. Luckily he has a Demigod inside him now to keep him focused on being the best king he can be (and not being a bloodthirsty psycho).


No, he makes it sound like Varian already had a lot on his plate at the moment. The King was fighting dangerous threats to his kingdom, and left his nobles and advisors, whom he trusted, to lead in his place. In the meantime, a black dragon was covertly stirring up trouble until it was too late and things got out of hand.
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85 Troll Rogue
4665
Probably because WoW is more of a constitutional monarchy. I think the only true monarchy right now is Garrosh leading the Horde.
Edited by Sgtcrispy on 9/22/2012 10:56 AM PDT
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90 Draenei Shaman
11990
You make it sound like he's a pretty crappy ruler. Luckily he has a Demigod inside him now to keep him focused on being the best king he can be (and not being a bloodthirsty psycho).


And your ignoring everything he has done. Yes he was blessed by a demigod but its his own choices that will make/break him. Yes, he is a human and faliable at times but that doesnt change the fact without Varian the Horde would have utterly destroyed the night elves/drenaei in Kalimdor.
Edited by Zerde on 9/22/2012 11:13 AM PDT
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100 Night Elf Hunter
20725
09/22/2012 10:55 AMPosted by Zerde
And your ignoring ever he has done. Yes he was blessed by a demigod but its his own choices. Yes, he is a human and faliable at times but that doesnt change the fact without Varian the Horde would have utterly destroyed the night elves/drenaei in Kalimdor.


And he's the only person in the entire World of Warcraft to ever kill a raid boss. So he's got that going for him.
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100 Draenei Paladin
13790
What is the greatest draw of democracy? It isn't freedom.

It's mediocrity.
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25 Blood Elf Paladin
0
Varian has limits on his power due to the House of Nobles. This has actually caused more problems than it prevented.
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100 Human Mage
20625
09/22/2012 11:02 AMPosted by Threeslotbag
And your ignoring ever he has done. Yes he was blessed by a demigod but its his own choices. Yes, he is a human and faliable at times but that doesnt change the fact without Varian the Horde would have utterly destroyed the night elves/drenaei in Kalimdor.


And he's the only person in the entire World of Warcraft to ever kill a raid boss. So he's got that going for him.


To be fair, by the time Wrath hit, anyone that knew their class could solo her. =P
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100 Human Mage
20625
On a more serious note...

As others have mentioned, the reason most people haven't outright objected to his rule was because they've ultimately never had reason to.

Did Varian declaring war on the Horde after the Battle for the Undercity seem rash? Yes. But, at the same time, the people would've been objecting if he hadn't gone to war after he had personally seen what the Forsaken had really been up to for all those years.

The only serious challenge to Varian's right to rule came from a set of circumstances far beyond his control, from a group that was soon shown to have very little, if any, political legitimacy after they started resorting to banditry. Other than that, any others looking to stir up trouble for his rule have always turned out to be infiltrators for some hostile faction or other; his subjects, by and large, seem to fully accept his rule.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
5780
A monarchy isn't inherently evil. It worked well (enough) for thousands of years.
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09/22/2012 10:55 AMPosted by Sgtcrispy
Probably because WoW is more of a constitutional monarchy. I think the only true monarchy right now is Garrosh leading the Horde.


Warchief isn't a monarch. It's a dictatorship.
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25 Blood Elf Paladin
0
09/22/2012 12:02 PMPosted by Velarin
A monarchy isn't inherently evil. It worked well (enough) for thousands of years.


To be fair that's because nobody really thought to question it until the Renaissance.
Edited by Vyrin on 9/22/2012 12:22 PM PDT
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26 Worgen Hunter
150
This would be my argument for an absolute monarchy being in place.

I think in the case of Azeroth, most people have a hard time dealing with everyday life with all the threats surrounding them. The orcish Horde? The undead Scourge? The demonic Legion? These are threats piled on top of things that a peasant normally has to struggle with such as starvation, shelter, and brigands.

In this setting I can see people willingly giving up their freedom in exchange for a feeling of safety. To put the weight of these extra burdens on the shoulders of another.

Constitutional monarchies are fine even today. I don't see why it would be any different in WoW's setting.
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24 Night Elf Priest
7575

Yeah Arthas was a perfect prince and became an even better king, didn't he? This argument is sort of broken on the grounds that even a benevolent dictator is still a dictator. You couldn't just call Varian Wrynn an incompetent moron and not get your head chopped off.


I'm not sure the fact that Arthas became the Lich King is common knowledge amongst the common folks.

Most of Azeroth's leaders have been good to people. Earth had monarchs at one point. It's when those kings and queens began to abuse their power or ignore the people they were supposed to be serving that monarchy rule failed. I would imagine the same thing would happen to Azeroth's rulers if they went down a similar path.
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26 Worgen Hunter
150
The only example of a bad monarch would be King Perenolde but if the Syndicate is anything to go by then Alterac was full of bad apples so he was still just fulfilling the will of his people I guess.

EDIT: I think^
Edited by Rudox on 9/22/2012 1:02 PM PDT
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85 Night Elf Druid
1890
09/22/2012 07:29 AMPosted by Fraen
I noticed earlier in the post, but the draenei were I can assume thrown in the tie with being ruled by a monarch. I feel that this should be cleared up that Velen is not their king or ruler by right or claim, they all as a people, chose him to represent them and in that way is it still wrong? Along with Varian who while he has his own problems and haters is still idolized and beloved by a majority of those under his rule loving either him OR his son and their future king, almost every monarch in Azeroth is loved and/or chosen by their people and that cancels out any argument against objecting monarchy because you cannot simply tell a people that their opinion and idea over who and how they want to be ruled and guided is wrong while keeping a valid argument.


The Triumverate(sp?) rule the Draenei.

However, Velen's word is respected so much that his influence is essentially absolute. It would be taboo, if not outright heresy to ignore him if he says something.

It makes for a kind of situation where Velen does indeed have control over the direction his people take, but the day to day affairs are managed by three other guys.

Kind of like the situation in Game of Thrones, where there was a King as well as his Hand. Or in King Robert's words, "The King takes a **** and the Hand cleans it up". Only with the Draenei there's no incest or corruption.
Edited by Drailen on 9/22/2012 1:11 PM PDT
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100 Draenei Paladin
18390
Monarchy works in WoW because for the most part the rulers have been good, considerate towards their people, and have not horribly abused their power to the point of needing to be removed. It has it's flaws certainly, as King Perenold showed, but by and large it's worked so far in this setting.

People who are crying about there needing to be a democracy seem to forget that people can abuse this system just like they can a monarchy. Neither one is inherently good nor bad, just in democracy's case there are more checks and balances to ensure tyrants cannot easily take control. Bottom line, as long as the people are content beneath a monarchy, their rights are not being abused, and the leaders are just, there is no need for democracy.
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100 Night Elf Hunter
20725
09/22/2012 01:11 PMPosted by Andarin
Monarchy works in WoW because for the most part the rulers have been good, considerate towards their people, and have not horribly abused their power to the point of needing to be removed. It has it's flaws certainly, as King Perenold showed, but by and large it's worked so far in this setting.


It helps that none of them have genitalia.
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100 Draenei Paladin
13790
09/22/2012 01:11 PMPosted by Andarin
People who are crying about there needing to be a democracy seem to forget that people can abuse this system just like they can a monarchy. Neither one is inherently good nor bad, just in democracy's case there are more checks and balances to ensure tyrants cannot easily take control. Bottom line, as long as the people are content beneath a monarchy, their rights are not being abused, and the leaders are just, there is no need for democracy.


Case in point, modern day America?

09/22/2012 02:00 PMPosted by Threeslotbag
It helps that none of them have genitalia.


Do you actually think you are providing useful and insightful commentary, or are you satisfied with constantly subjecting everyone with moronic one liners based on erroneous logic and opinions.
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90 Human Warrior
11900
Firstly, there are many cases where we see that the authority of the monarchs is limited either by volition of the monarchs or the some manner of legal restraint. While Varian seems to have absolute authority, the various townships under the Stormwind banner all have democratic systems of representation. I have not seen anything to indicate that Lakeshire or Darkshire's mayors are appointed governors rather than elected citizens. Also, I recall learning that the nobility can lose their privileges if they don't act with that sense of "oblige" towards those in their lands. Outside of military affairs, King Wrynn seems to do more reigning than ruling.

Then you have to consider that there are limits to how human the other races are, which explains their behavior psychologically. Most gnomes excepting the nutters like Thermaplugg are compelled by their essential nature to create and invent. While Mekkatorque is the de facto "King of Gnomes," I doubt his people are worried about him getting attached to his position, because like most gnomes he probably wants to feel like he can put down the burden of governance and get back to being an engineer.

Furthermore, a lot of the justification for absolute monarchies in the real world centered around religious manipulation; the Divine Right of Kings. Up until Thomas Hobbes wrote up a secular argument for absolutism based on a dim view of human nature, people were content for their kings to have authority based on the logic that they wouldn't have their power if God didn't approve of them leading the country. However, whatever your religious beliefs or opinions are in real life, the gods and spirits of Warcraft are real and living entities with a physical presence. People eventually found it specious when their debauched lords were leading bloody, sinful lives while claiming to have the guidance of Christ and the approval of the Pope or the Mandate of Heaven. Meanwhile in Azeroth, the Night Elves know for an indisputable fact that Tyrande Whisperwind is the chosen voice of the moon goddess and the Worgen know unambiguously that Goldrinn the wolf ancient wants them to obey Varian as a pack leader.

Basically, things work differently in Azeroth that makes the status quo mostly functional and retards the urgency of reform.
Edited by Daavead on 9/22/2012 2:30 PM PDT
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85 Night Elf Druid
1890
09/22/2012 02:23 PMPosted by Arkturas
Do you actually think you are providing useful and insightful commentary, or are you satisfied with constantly subjecting everyone with moronic one liners based on erroneous logic and opinions.


Yes
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