Leadership Favoritism?

81 Night Elf Rogue
9550
Seems the last couple guilds I have been in the Guild Leader is pretty negligent on making policies stick, or even making policies for that matter. The last guild, a member who in RL has some serious issues with being Autistic and basically went postal in g chat. I ended up putting him in a rank so his g chat was muted. He continued to insult me and disrespect me through whispers.

I ended up gkicking him. As an officer of the guild I felt this would be in the best interest of the guild since he would not Stop!. Guild Master received word of what happened and refused to even hear my side of the story and basically demoted me from officer. The offending RL autistic friend was invited back. Needless to say I left that guild and joined something else, yet I am a bit off because of what happened here. Anyone else have a similar incident?
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14 Troll Priest
110
99.9% of the time I back my officers choices up.

Without knowing more of that specific situation, the guild rules, etc. I really can't say much more.

I've demoted officers for various things- mostly NOT following the rules. I follow the rules of the guild, and I feel that officers must follow them too. Why? Because WE set the examples. How can any of us enforce a rule that says "thou shall not call someone a potato chip" (silly, made up rule) when we sit around calling others potato chips?
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88 Troll Priest
10170
Yes, I had a similar experience, and /gquit is really all you can do, so you made the right call there. It was a sad thing, really. Our old GM stepped down, and he trusted this person to take over, when in reality all the new GM did was use the guild to gear up his friends and alts. I heard after I left he even started sitting raiders so he could bring in his alts for gear (that the raider still needed) until the guild fell apart.

In my case I made the mistake of whispering one of the GMs real life friends about some racist/sexist remarks in guild chat. (I was an officer, and trying to diffuse the situation.) My whisper was met with some very disrespectful comments about my gender (female) and then he put me on ignore. I waited for the GM to come on before a kick decision was made to avoid drama, and the GM strait up told me I never should have tried to talk to him and so it was my fault that he treated my poorly. Not really any other answer to that other than /gquit.
Edited by Phee on 9/26/2012 11:26 PM PDT
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81 Night Elf Rogue
9550
I'm glad I'm not the only one but yes I have taken the high road and gquit with nothing more said to anyone involved in this scrap. I can't say that I'm happier yet, I do miss being in that guild but I do think I did make the best decision possible.

@Subrosian, your post was spot on!
@Phee , you are also spot on

I think from here on in, I am going to pass on an officer duty until at least 6 or 7 months into the guild.

I think the biggest problem was the result of the GM using this guild invite tool called Super Guild Invite. Bad mod is bad!!! :)
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90 Draenei Shaman
10265
As a GM myself it can be difficult some times resolving issues between people in the guild.
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90 Draenei Death Knight
13815
I'm glad I'm not the only one but yes I have taken the high road and gquit with nothing more said to anyone involved in this scrap. I can't say that I'm happier yet, I do miss being in that guild but I do think I did make the best decision possible.


The GL already had a rank set up for disruptive guild chat, you should have demoted him and let the GL handle the rest. If he was already muted, then it seems to me that you kicked him not because it was interest of the guild, but because you felt personally insulted. Officers should be above that.

If the person was indeed autistic, there are other considerations as well. A GL may consider outbursts in guild chat to be part of the person's disability and be willing to grant extra leeway - especially if this person was a friend of his.

It is very hard to call this "favoritism" without hearing details from the other side.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
4490
09/27/2012 11:39 AMPosted by Siantha
I'm glad I'm not the only one but yes I have taken the high road and gquit with nothing more said to anyone involved in this scrap. I can't say that I'm happier yet, I do miss being in that guild but I do think I did make the best decision possible.


The GL already had a rank set up for disruptive guild chat, you should have demoted him and let the GL handle the rest. If he was already muted, then it seems to me that you kicked him not because it was interest of the guild, but because you felt personally insulted. Officers should be above that.

If the person was indeed autistic, there are other considerations as well. A GL may consider outbursts in guild chat to be part of the person's disability and be willing to grant extra leeway - especially if this person was a friend of his.

It is very hard to call this "favoritism" without hearing details from the other side.


You have to be kidding right...?

The Player went after the OP in whispers even after being muted.. and you feel that was okay? In my book the OP did the right thing.. guild kick.

It is obvious the guild leader cares more for his friend than what is good for the guild. Okay the guy has autism, well there are a variety of types of autism and this is a social game if he can not not abide by the social norms then he is going to have problems.

There is a guy on my server who uses his mental disorder as an excuse to act like a jerk. yes he is given some leeway but only so much,, and frankly I would not let one player threaten the life of my guild even if he was a friend.

The Op is an officer and frankly in the abscence of the guild leader she was authorized to act in the guild leaders behalf. frankly the offendiing player is lucky he was not reported to Blizz for his offending behavior, she was within her right to do that.

If this was not a textbook display of favoritism by the guild leader, I do not know what is... if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck quacks like duck, it must be a duck... in this case the guild leader is definetly showing favoritism.

Op you did the right thing in leaving, you deserve better, if the guild leader continues to allow such abuses then his guild is not going to be very successfull.. Your better off without him annd his guild.
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90 Tauren Warrior
9435
What Siantha said was:

It is very hard to call this "favoritism" without hearing details from the other side.


Which is the more rational approach, imo.

As a GL myself, I can tell you that people are very good at being victims sometimes. I tend to agree with Siantha, if there was a rank set up for that, then that should have been enough. The OP *could* have placed the person on ignore, and been done with it.

OTOH, The officer had the rank to boot, so a demotion was probably over reacting. But, as Siantha said, we don't really know what happened.
Edited by Rvalue on 9/28/2012 3:44 AM PDT
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90 Draenei Death Knight
13815
09/27/2012 12:11 PMPosted by Subrosian
A person in the guild is allowed to harass guild leadership, something I imagine most "off-the-street" members wouldn't be able to get away with, because they're the GM's friend... and you don't see favoritism?


This is pretty much my point - you have to do a lot of imagining to see an open-and-shut case of favoritism. You don't know the guild's culture, or what policies were in place, or any other circumstances. Is there a policy of giving warnings? Or on gkicks? How big is this guild, is it a small group of friends or a large social guild? How long was the friend a member? Longtime members often have a bit more leeway in these sorts of issues. We don't even know why the member "went postal". Well, that's interesting. Doesn't anyone think this *may* be relevant to the discussion? What other personal drama is lurking under the surface? All we get is the story from the disgruntled OP looking for validation.

And yes, of course an angry person raging in guild chat is going to insult the officer who demoted him to a "cooldown" rank. That is precisely why the officer needs a thicker skin - to, you know, actually give the member a chance to cool down, rather than gkick them for feeling "disrespected"
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90 Draenei Death Knight
13815
09/28/2012 07:25 AMPosted by Subrosian
You don't get to rage at people, get put on probation, then rage more, and continue to be in the guild.


You are making many assumptions about what happened. What exactly was said? What were the circumstances? The OP cherry-picked details of the story. I am not arguing that people who harass their guild-mates ought to be tolerated. Rather, I am saying that it is worthwhile to be skeptical of OPs who are claiming to be victims. I am much more likely to be well-disposed to an OP who is seeking actual advice about how he could have handled things differently, rather than one who has a self-serving story and simply assumes everything that happened is someone else's fault

09/28/2012 07:25 AMPosted by Subrosian
Kick people who lack self-discipline. Don't want to behave like an adult? /gkick.


Everybody makes mistakes. Emotions can run hot and people can say stupid things. People who have know each other for years can offend each other. Some people just have fiery personalities and are prone to saying stupid things once in a while. Conflict in a social game is inevitable, especially in a game where you can be spending many many hours interacting with someone over a period of months or even years.

I measure adult behavior by your ability to quickly and effectively resolve conflict - not by an ability to never somehow offend anyone. I'd rather spend my social time with interesting people who are willing to speak their mind and are not afraid of a /gkick because they broke some rule - as long as they are willing to recognize when they cross a line and appropriately resolve conflicts when they occur. Conversely, someone who is a serial harasser has no place in my guild.

But hey, that is just my leadership style. It may not work for you, but I have a blast in my guild.

edit: minor change for clarity
Edited by Siantha on 9/28/2012 8:57 AM PDT
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81 Night Elf Rogue
9550
Siantha, and others who don't support what I did, step back a little

Here's what basically happened.

A police offer kindly tells xxxx to "stop" that person stops then verbally threatens the cop with violence, EVEN DEATH THREATS. Forget the swearing part..

Does the cop give him a second chance because he/she has a disability?

I think not....

Still think I was out of line by gkicking the tool? I didn't even report him but I should have

Thank you for your consideration..
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90 Human Warrior
16760
I have to agree with Siantha here. As usual, we only have a small portion of the story. In this case all the information we have is from the side of the officer.

Was it appropriate to /gkick the person? Sure could have been. But was it inappropriate? Sure could have been.

Based on the outline of events given I don't necessarily blame the OP for /gkicking the person. But I wouldn't have blamed the OP either if he had just demoted the person and let the gm deal with it. There ARE special considerations in this case apparently. Now I'll flat out state, those considerations mean squat to me. But thats me and my guild. They apparently mean squat to Subrosian as well. But that Sub and her guild. But neither of those means that its right in this particular guild.

There's a lot of questions, and as Siantha said, a lot of assumptions about those answers. Are officers in this guild encouraged to act as the gm or are they there to assist the gm but let the gm handle the big stuff.

We also know this is a friend of the gm. But what kind of friend. Is this somebody who just an ingame friend or is this the, "this is my next door neighbors kid and I promised to help him in game" kind of friend? What kind of guild is it? A strict raiding guild, a casual guild? A friends/family guild? All those things can affect whether the gm would have kicked the person.

Why didn't op demote him then put on /ignore and talk to the gm?

With all that said I also don't blame the OP for leaving the guild. No matter what the reasoning for the gm bringing the kid back I would not stay in a guild with somebody who treated me the way that kid treated the OP.

TL;DR - I think you were hasty in kicking him given the circumstances. A /gkick may have ended up being the right solution in the end, but how you got there may not have been the best method. However, after all was said and done, leaving was the right thing to do.
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90 Draenei Death Knight
13815
Here's what basically happened.

A police offer kindly tells xxxx to "stop" that person stops then verbally threatens the cop with violence, EVEN DEATH THREATS. Forget the swearing part..

Does the cop give him a second chance because he/she has a disability?


Hmm, are you saying you actually thought your life was in danger? Somehow I doubt that is the case. Instead of offering an irrelevant analogy, how about supplying a few details, such as:

- what (approximately) did the person say?
- were they going "postal" toward a specific member? The guild in general? Something else?
- how long had this person been a member?
- how much time elapsed between the time you demoted and kicked the player?
- had there been any issues with this player before the incident in question?
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81 Night Elf Rogue
9550
Hmm, are you saying you actually thought your life was in danger?


REALLY? Does it really matter? threats, light or not are taken seriously just like anything else in this world regardless of "How one feels" at the time of the threat. I hope you don't work at airport security or the like if that is how you classify threats.

Instead of offering an irrelevant analogy, how about supplying a few details, such


Due to forum regulations and TOS , I cannot and will not divulge what was said. I gave you as close as a synapis as I could, take from it what you will, without exact details you should be able to tell what went down in theory.

Last but not least, I have moved on with my wow gaming in another guild and a new toon.

My only goal of this post was to get an idea of what others saw from it. I wasn't looking for advise or pitty. Just a simple discussion to see if anyone else experienced the same, I thank you for your contributions.
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