Sid, first level 90 Monk

90 Night Elf Druid
11480
I actually agree with you when it comes to taking out Realm First achievements. I hate them, I think they're totally opposing to WoW's own view points on people "taking a break" like their old wait-screen messages used to say.

Now that being said, I find this sentiment (and those that were expressed on trade channel the last couple nights) of it not being hard work to be curious and odd. All of the other realm first achievements had to go 85-90. Sid had to go 80-90. He did so in such a manner that he was 90, before like 99% of the server.

Don't like Blizzards' allowance for RAF on the achievements? Sure. Fine, but to negate the fact that Sid busted his butt to get this done? That's silly. Because he -did- bust his butt to get there. Not just in the leveling, the questing, the 30+ hours of work he invested non-stop. He was also investing weeks of research, effort in getting his gear (for leveling) and materials for crafting.

Bottomline, I think Sid invested as much "Hard Work" as anyone else who got a Server First. if not five levels more hard work. So congratulations to him are heart felt on my end.


Danged you and your well thought out and polite post covering up my snarky remark!

So true though...
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I actually agree with you when it comes to taking out Realm First achievements. I hate them, I think they're totally opposing to WoW's own view points on people "taking a break" like their old wait-screen messages used to say.

Now that being said, I find this sentiment (and those that were expressed on trade channel the last couple nights) of it not being hard work to be curious and odd. All of the other realm first achievements had to go 85-90. Sid had to go 80-90. He did so in such a manner that he was 90, before like 99% of the server.

Don't like Blizzards' allowance for RAF on the achievements? Sure. Fine, but to negate the fact that Sid busted his butt to get this done? That's silly. Because he -did- bust his butt to get there. Not just in the leveling, the questing, the 30+ hours of work he invested non-stop. He was also investing weeks of research, effort in getting his gear (for leveling) and materials for crafting.

Bottomline, I think Sid invested as much "Hard Work" as anyone else who got a Server First. if not five levels more hard work. So congratulations to him are heart felt on my end.

You make a good point... (This is Aegran for those without the browser addons displaying alts) that said I don't agree with it.

The hard work for server firsts comes from the competition in my opinion. The fact that you're not the only one out there busting your gut to get that achievement. The 85-90 server firsts are intense competitions (despite there only being 5 levels) because you're competing with every person who has an 85 of your class, warriors, druids it doesn't matter everyone is your opponent for those critical hours until you pull ahead because you devote more time (aka sleep less and become a computer zombie) to the grind. There are no advantages outside of exploits in order for you to pull ahead, everyone is ball breaking to get there.

The same should have been true for monks. The majority of new monks on day one were busting their guts to pull ahead of the competition. Those who were serious about the competition got all the heirlooms they could pre-launch and then gunned it, trying to get themselves to 90 as fast as humanely possible. I was never a serious contender (so I'm not coming from a 'I didn't get the achievement so I'll cry in the corner' attitude) but I hope you can understand exactly why I feel RAF shouldn't have been allowed for new monks in the exact same way SoR wasn't allowed.

To put it in a different light. Imagine if you were driving in an intense race for a championship cup. You're starting with everyone else and the cars of each competitor vary with some cars having two high performance parts, others having four or six. It's a ninety lap race, so you're prepared for the long haul and you're really wanting to win. Then imagine, just five laps after you start, that over the announcement speakers you're informed that a few more drivers have entered the race, but they start at lap eighty while you're still at lap five. Sure they're only driving cars with two performance parts which break at the fifth lap, but while you're still going through the rest of the laps, and still have over forty to go, they're already in the final stretch and pushing for the finish.

There is no competition in that, the people who are pushing hard likely feel cheated and rightly so, because not everyone has the ability to enter the race at the eightieth lap.

So in my opinion, while there was time invested and effort made, the true competition was skipped, which removes the 'hard' portion of the work. It's not hard to win a race when you start eighty levels ahead of everyone else.

Edit:

To clarify one point. I don't begrudge Sid for winning the race and I'm not in any way saying he didn't earn his achievement or that it should be taken from him (I wouldn't have congratulated him otherwise). My only gripe is honestly that the work was labeled as 'hard' when it really wasn't from a overall perspective.
Edited by Belzac on 9/30/2012 4:58 AM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
11480
While I see your point to some extent, I would like to point out that your comment about "imagine just five laps after you start, that over the announcement speakers you're informed that a few more drivers have entered the race, but they start lap eighty while you're still at lap five" is, in my opinion very incorrect.

It was announced, and well known ahead of time that those were the rules (via blue posts and much forum discussion).

It would be more akin to beginning a race without having gathered the necessary resources to be a contender. If RAF was unatainable, and a server first was important, there were 8 other classes to go for.

Truly not trying to be snarky, but thems the rules, and being aware of them and having the resources to contend was part of what it took to win the race. I don't see how thats unfair in any way.
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90 Tauren Paladin
7300
Because complaining about it is totally going to help your personal situation.

Congrats to Sid.
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09/30/2012 01:37 PMPosted by Juansun
It was announced, and well known ahead of time that those were the rules (via blue posts and much forum discussion).

True, but it's not something everyone has access to, which is the main point I was trying to make. I've leveled this character with only two heirlooms and the enlightenment buff whenever I could get it. I don't have access to RAF, so in my case, even if I had four heirlooms (counting XP gain heirlooms only) I'd still be knocked out of the race so to speak, by the people that do.

Honestly as I said, congratulations to Sid. He earned the achievement, no questioning that, but at the same time if RAF was locked out in the same way that SoR was, the race I think would still be going on, and the competition would be a lot fiercer, which in my opinion, is how it should have been. Maybe next time Blizzard releases a new class, be it a hero class or otherwise, they'll take that into consideration and put everyone in an equal playing field, with the only advantages being what all players can obtain in game (heirlooms).

09/30/2012 02:02 PMPosted by Valliac
Because complaining about it is totally going to help your personal situation.

Don't know what point you're trying to make here. I'm not complaining so to speak, just pointing out my opinion about why winning a race via RAF boost isn't exactly 'hard' work.
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90 Worgen Rogue
3620
Grats Sid, and well done for us all Monk players!
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90 Undead Death Knight
9635
Heirlooms aren't obtainable by all, if you see it in perspective. Not everyone can grind honour or heroics, just as not everyone can consider something as a real life investment/going through the trouble of recruiting someone for the edge of RAF. Its another tool at our hand, it just happens to need your effort a bit more out of just 'heirlooms'.

Congratulations to Sid, I remember feeling excited when I saw the achievement pop up! Made me happy to see it :D
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09/30/2012 02:39 PMPosted by Gundhram
Heirlooms aren't obtainable by all, if you see it in perspective. Not everyone can grind honour or heroics, just as not everyone can consider something as a real life investment/going through the trouble of recruiting someone for the edge of RAF. Its another tool at our hand, it just happens to need your effort a bit more out of just 'heirlooms'.

Sorry but I disagree there.

Heirlooms have been in the game for years (the chest and shoulders longer than the helm and cape). MoP and the monk class has had information readily available about it for close to a year. In that time everyone who was serious about taking part in the server first races should have been able to obtain all the heirlooms, no exceptions. Even super casual players who only do 2-3 instances a night would have made enough JP and gold in that time to buy everything they needed.

The same cannot be said for RAF. I don't have friends lining up to recruit for WoW (they are either already playing and have no interest in starting up a second account or they are not interested in WoW at all). Sure I could RAF a second account for myself, but considering how much money I would need to do that? Well lets just say that's a large money investment that I can't afford right now, and I am sure there are many others in the same boat.
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90 Undead Death Knight
9635
Getting a server first is big shots. Big achievement. Heirlooms are the easy boost. Getting a RAF even for 60 levels for yourself is 20 bucks, if you want it THAT badly even that isn't too big of a price. 3x boost+60 levels to put up after youre done w/ boosting is pretty good even without expacs to boot it if you're serious.

I don't want this to sound rude, but all I'm hearing is about how -you- can't get RAF and how its unfair because -you- can't get it. I can't speak for everyone, but for myself nabbing RAF isn't that big of a deal, its just a real world investment you're not willing to make and others are. AF isn't completely out of your reach. It's there. Some people have better circumstances than others in availability, but its available to all nonetheless.
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09/30/2012 05:29 PMPosted by Gundhram
I don't want this to sound rude, but all I'm hearing is about how -you- can't get RAF and how its unfair because -you- can't get it.


09/30/2012 04:52 AMPosted by Belzac
I was never a serious contender (so I'm not coming from a 'I didn't get the achievement so I'll cry in the corner' attitude) but I hope you can understand exactly why I feel RAF shouldn't have been allowed for new monks in the exact same way SoR wasn't allowed.

To quote myself...

I was never pushing for the achievement, I am however speaking for those, not just on this server, but on others, who were and didn't have access to RAF an option Blizzard should have removed like they removed SoR.

Edit:

To clarify, Blizzard removed the ability for monks to use Scroll of Ressurection, so that they couldn't get a fast ticket to 80. I don't know if they overlooked RAF simply because they didn't believe many people would use it to boost to 80, or if they left it there on purpose, but honestly as I've said in my earlier posts, the challenge in obtaining server firsts comes from the competition to get there. There is no competition in jumping 80 levels ahead of everyone else, there is no challenge there period.

That is my point, not that I am personally wounded by not getting the achievement, because honestly I stopped caring for server firsts during WotLK. I don't understand why people rush through the content, because the people that do are now the ones wondering why there is nothing to do with some of them already complaining to Blizzard about -lack- of content.
Edited by Belzac on 9/30/2012 5:39 PM PDT
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Thanks to everyone who said congrats.

I definitely see that person's point of the whole RAF thing. I wish Blizzard hadn't implemented it either and that we all had to go 1-90 together. Would have been much more competition and fun (though truth be told, after about 16 hours, most people would have at least slept). To say it wasn't hard work to stay up for 34 hours or so, research for weeks, etc, is fine but we will just have to disagree on how we both define "hard work".
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90 Human Priest
10610
I have to agree, gratz on your realm first monk! But it wasn't like it was worthy of, realm first monk. Especially since realm first monk should be from level 1-90 without the giant jump start.

Gratz, however.
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90 Pandaren Priest
13650
I have to agree, gratz on your realm first monk! But it wasn't like it was worthy of, realm first monk. Especially since realm first monk should be from level 1-90 without the giant jump start.

Gratz, however.


The amount of passive aggressive in this post...
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I have to agree, gratz on your realm first monk! But it wasn't like it was worthy of, realm first monk. Especially since realm first monk should be from level 1-90 without the giant jump start.

Gratz, however.


Thanks for the grats :)
Edited by Sid on 10/1/2012 2:18 AM PDT
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90 Tauren Shaman
7720
09/30/2012 11:38 PMPosted by Raisheal
The amount of passive aggressive in this post...


They might need some lidocaine ointment too.

I'll always be amazed at the value that is placed on realm firsts. That's a lot of time and effort invested. I don't place much value or even interest on the achievements myself but I do commend the dedication of those it does matter to.

I don't care too much about the achievement, but I would like to give you congratulations for sticking with your passions.
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12 Pandaren Monk
8310
I take it I'm doing it wrong. :P

Congrats man! How do you like the playstyle at 90? Has it become second nature, or are you still kind of hazy and looking at your keys all derpy like (you know, like me!)?
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90 Goblin Death Knight
8435
Congrats to you Sid, though I will agree with people saying it wasn't hard work. But not because of the whole RAF things.

No, I say it because, well... Leveling -isn't- hard, it's just a matter of time and a bit of effort. And some people seem to be kind peeved that you put in more of your time and effort into it -before- the expansion hit, as to lessen the amount you needed -when- it hit.

Which, in my mind, was just bloody smart.

So good on you mate. And congrats again.
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90 Tauren Paladin
7300
BUT BOMZIK, DA HARDCORE LEVELRZ MAKE IT LEGIT.

GOTTA BE LEGIT OR IT DUZNT COUNT.

Bleh.
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90 Goblin Death Knight
8435
See, what I would have done with RAF is two sets of characters to 80, and then get my friend to donate all the free levels to my newly created monk.

But then people would say I cheated, 'cause apparently leveling two characters to 80 with RAF doesn't count or something. Even though it would have still required time and effort.

*Shrug*

My main issue with Sid's 90 monk is that he ain't a bloody goblin. But that ain't his fault.
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3 Troll Shaman
0
Good job Sid! Also, shut up Aeg.
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