Fix Alterac Valley; NPCs too weak

70 Orc Shaman
12255
This seems like a good idea, but just not for every NPC.

there's a difference between difficulty and just drawing out some fights (ie: rams, generic base NPC's)
Edited by Gørgutz on 2/24/2013 7:26 PM PST
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100 Gnome Mage
12125
That new rare technology to increase health per player attacking: possible for Alterac Valley NPCs? Would solve so much.
Ghostcrawler: "Potentially, yeah. And then AV is perfect, right? Right?"

GC actually gave an AV response.....hard to believe.

But in fact....I do kind of agree with him. What stops 3 people from still drilling Balinda or Galv? What stops one person from killing all the archers in 10 seconds because no one else attacked them to give them their increase health per player?

The bottom line is that the base stats of the AV npcs is just far too pathetic, is it really that hard for them to figure that out? The devs obviously know that this current version of AV is bad.....but fixing it isn't rocket science like they think it is. Hotfixes and small changes would go a LONG WAY by themselves.....why don't the devs just try it?
Edited by Ponk on 3/1/2013 12:06 AM PST
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OP good job I can't stand people who q up specifically for AV or IOC and zerg the NPC bosses they should just go do dungeons or quests instead of ruining people's pvp experience by avoiding pvp contact and zerging NPC bosses that're so weak its almost impossible to wipe on them without enemy interference

or people who get AV or IOC for random and they just zerg the npcs because they want to exit the battleground as fast as possible most of these people have only experienced bad turtles and got a bad first impression but they really need to endure some long battles and they'll probably enjoy it 40v40 people with 20-30hks is pathetic 40v40s are suppose to be epic battles but 20/21 battles the teams ride parallel to one another in the field of strife and just proceed to killing drek and balinda doing everything they can to avoid attacking each other. its rly sad
Edited by Bucketz on 3/1/2013 3:53 AM PST
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100 Night Elf Druid
16390
03/01/2013 12:05 AMPosted by Ponk
But in fact....I do kind of agree with him. What stops 3 people from still drilling Balinda or Galv? What stops one person from killing all the archers in 10 seconds because no one else attacked them to give them their increase health per player?


You're right of course, Ponk, that the base health and damage for the NPCs in AV is just too low. My justification over rare-style health & damage increases per player is that it is significantly easier to defend the NPCs over a small group of players over a large group where there's no chance to do so.

It doesn't solve the problem for the little NPCs like graveyard guards and bowmen who have health that can be destroyed in one hit, but for those with a bit more 'meat' it can make a big difference I think. :-)
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90 Orc Warrior
Req
4795
I would love to see Alterac Valley returned to its former glory.
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100 Gnome Mage
12125
You're right of course, Ponk, that the base health and damage for the NPCs in AV is just too low. My justification over rare-style health & damage increases per player is that it is significantly easier to defend the NPCs over a small group of players over a large group where there's no chance to do so.

It doesn't solve the problem for the little NPCs like graveyard guards and bowmen who have health that can be destroyed in one hit, but for those with a bit more 'meat' it can make a big difference I think. :-)


Oh, I agree for sure, Bynir. All 40 players zerging Drek or Van with the rare health/dmg increase would really make them formidable again, and under the best circumstances, unkillable if any towers are still up. Ideally, the best of both worlds would be a base stats increase to all current AV NPCs, AND the new system on top of it.

So....quick fix for AV after patch 5.2:

1. Drop reinforcements completely or raise them to 2000.(Hotfixable)
2. Raise base stats of all current NPCs to respectable levels.(Hotfixable)
3. Change NPCs to new rare system of health/damage increase.
4. Copy/paste a new AV battleground with these changes, so zerg monkeys can still keep the old one.
5. Keep it out of random queue so people don't have to participate if they don't want.

These are smaller changes that won't require you to dig into the "scary, old. ancient complex code" current AV is built upon that you devs fear so much. But, it will go a LONG way towards making this battleground actually fun and epic again.
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43 Orc Warrior
9385
Gonna bump this thread. AV needs to be fixed and soon.
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88 Dwarf Warrior
1505
AV used to be an actual battle. It was an actual war! Reinforcements were important. Turning in materials and upgrading troops was important. It was strategic. The game desperately needs an Alterac Valley for the niche of players that like a serious battle.
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90 Human Warrior
9445
bumping
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100 Night Elf Druid
16390
AV used to be an actual battle. It was an actual war! Reinforcements were important. Turning in materials and upgrading troops was important. It was strategic. The game desperately needs an Alterac Valley for the niche of players that like a serious battle.


You do this now and are greeted with:

12:02:02 Veteran Units are entering battle!
12:02:04 The Alliance wins!
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100 Tauren Druid
7040
I REALLY support everything from op. AV has been dumbed down horribly. When was the last time anyone even saw the Ice Lord or the Druids or the Ram riders?

Bring back no reinforcements.
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44 Night Elf Druid
9475
Yeah AV has turned into so much of a PVE encounter that it is not even fun anymore. Like the OP and people have said it gets worse the further you get into expansion because people eventually outgear the npc's even more to point at the end of expansion the end boss can be 5 manned.

What I HATE about this pve crap is since I mostly play alliance, easily a big majority just heads straight to drek and literally stand outside his room and stares at him for 10 mins or so waiting for gy's and towers to be capped. Now if you are trying to defend a tower and its you and say maybe a few others and you get zerged its soooo frustrating. Even more frustrating is the tools that literally stare at Drek never guard RHGY and rogues or whoever sometimes ninjah cap. So horde who are reading this..I'm telling you always look to ninjah cap RHGY...most alliance won't even notice you are there.
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I REALLY support everything from op. AV has been dumbed down horribly. When was the last time anyone even saw the Ice Lord or the Druids or the Ram riders?

Bring back no reinforcements.


The majority of people dont even know what Lokholar or Ivus are.
Edited by Vaelkar on 3/12/2013 11:16 AM PDT
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100 Night Elf Druid
16390
It looks like the developers are discussing what Ponk has been suggesting for a while now, turning the 40 man battlegrounds into a different section similar to 'War Campaigns' like Tol Barad and Wintergrasp:

http://www.justin.tv/twizzcast/b/377474702 @ 25:40

Good news that we've taken from this interview (thank you Ghostcrawler!):

- Not as interested in adding newer battlegrounds, they want to polish up the ones they have now (!) and they're aware some current battlegrounds just aren't fun
- AV is very controversial, may be a way to package the big battlegrounds with WG/TB so that they're some 'big, epic event' with smaller battlegrounds like Arathi Basin and Temple of Kotmogu being what we know now as 'battlegrounds'

Now for feedback!

I definitely agree that we don't need any further battlegrounds right now and that reworking what we have now is a better idea, especially if it means fixing up AV, IoC and SoTA.

I also quite like the idea of fixing up AV and moving it to a 'war campaign' queue - but only if it was a longer battle than it is now and that it wasn't given a similar queue to Wintergrasp and Tol Barad. I think it'd be really sad to only be able to play AV once every 2.5 hours (though that may not be so bad if games lasted an hour - an hour and a half). Could also work for Isle of Conquest.

I wouldn't even be bothered if there are no rewards associated with it (though I imagine this would be a huge incentive for others for their time investment). Just something to queue for to have fun and immerse in. It'd require a bit of work to achieve this (possibly new achievements and things tied to them? Warmaster title inc!) but think it would fill a void that WoW is missing right now.

Thoughts?
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100 Night Elf Druid
16390
That said, I still think the games could be tweaked to such a way that such drastic changes (which are unlikely to happen until at least a new expansion) are necessary. Fixing AV requires reinforcement increases, NPC fixes and quest tweaks - not much else.
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100 Gnome Mage
12125
Well....I admit i'm extremely skeptical, but anything regarding polishing old BGs is good news. Since they aren't really interested in adding new BGs, I wonder what will become of that new "Defense of the Alehouse" battleground that was in the works? The map is massive....it looks far too large to be anything but a 40v40.....unless it is something that could be lumped into the "large scale" battle queue system.

Blizzard needs to prove they understand how a large scale conflict should work....and that doesn't mean racing past your opponents, having a timer that ends it within 20-30 minutes, or having NPCs so weak that one player can clear out 6-10 of them by himself.

I know I sound like a broken record, but old AV in it's original glory was a masterpiece. If they want ideas on how to make a large scale game work, then they need to look no further then something they already built.
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