5.0 Windwalker PvE Guide

90 Blood Elf Warlock
7260
I've been using Spinning Fire Blossom instead of Blackout Kick and I've noticed that it increases my dps from around 1250 to 1470. I'm currently 71, does this change at a higher level?


Yes.


Debatable. SFB actually might come out to a dps gain during low chi generation periods (not during bloodlust/energizing brew etc.) if your overall gear is higher ilvl than your weps. However, if you have a weapon of equal status to the rest of your gear BoK is a clear winner in most cases.
Edited by Gahhda on 10/20/2012 1:44 PM PDT
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90 Gnome Monk
18165
Would like to add that Glyph on Zen Meditation is an absolute must, has helped me a lot on normal and heroic Stone Guard as well as Elegon.
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90 Pandaren Monk
0
10/20/2012 08:36 AMPosted by Senseishade
Does anyone know of a reliable BiS trinket list anywhere? ive gotten multiple trinkets from heroics holidays and raid finder and its hard to tell what comes out best.


have this copied down from EJ site as a need to know list.


Relic of Xuen
Terror in the Mists Heroic
Jade Bandit Figurine heroic
Terror in the Mists Normal
Hawkmaster's Talon
Jade Bandit Figurine normal raid trash
Bottle of Infinite Stars Heroic
Bottle of Infinite Stars Normal
Terror in the Mists lfr
Bottle of Infinite Stars lfr
Zen Alchemist Stone
Searing Words
Jade Bandit Figurine lfr
Windswept Pages
Flashing Steel Talisman
Coren's Cold Chromium Coaster brewfest

edit: format change it to WoWhead
Edited by Wongrai on 10/29/2012 9:09 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Shaman
4925
whats better duel wield or 2hander?
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90 Pandaren Monk
9435
Do we need 7.5% hit AND 7.5% expertise?
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90 Pandaren Monk
14075
Dual Wield is slightly better but if you have a better 2h go with that.

Yes you need 7.5% hit and expertise.
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90 Pandaren Monk
HC
9450
Here's the low down on WW from a simc dev pov.

Its looking like haste = crit as long as you get your FoF's off perfectly.

If you are one of the players that decides to NEVER use FoF, haste will always be king.

If you are relatively good at using FoF on CD, haste=crit.

From what i've last heard from Gahddo, he's seeing haste=crit until 2pc tier (or maybe it was a haste value), then crit > haste. (still only if you ARE using fof, because I know alot of people aren't.)

We say haste = crit because adding 20 of each stat can cause a very miniscule shift in weight. They are so close, you'd have to sim point for point until you got a perfect setup. Realistically for most players thats just not worth the time for an extra 15 dps.

I've personally found that with crit, the standard deviation comes out the same, but theres a higher upper and lower margin of dps; so haste generally gives you a more consistent number overall.

Its fairly easy to tell someone crit>haste, though. Plus on movement fights, crit is definitely favored for a FoF user.

Gahddo, please correct me if I made any mistakes.
Edited by Advanced on 11/5/2012 8:31 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
7260
The issue with predicting weights on a movement based encounter is that movement in simc currently shuts off ALL damage including melee abilities that realistically could be used while moving. This means that we can't really sim heavy movement to see its effect on stat weights with less FoF usage but still -some- fof usage. With or without 2pc, for no movement there's a breakpoint on haste around 6.7k if you are using fof, and somewhere higher than that I don't recall if you aren't. Passed that point crit is a clear winner because you run into capping issues during fof casts. Up until you get 2pc, haste = crit, with 2pc, haste > crit until 6.7k. THAT ASSUMES PERFECT FOF USAGE EVERY SINGLE CD. I'd be more inclined to use haste=crit than one or the other.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
8790
I want to add my own 2-cents in what I think can be done to increase the utility, damage and all around how fun a Wind walker monk can be. I hate to say it but when i had my level 10 WW, i was excited. the skills were neat and the gameplay was advanced for the level. Sadly, i found out that was most of the rotation right there! The fact is that a BrM does more damage than WW and WW doesn't have enough utility period. Making the monk more fun will require a LOT of work, but its still possible. First is the stance. Idk about everyone else but being stuck with ONE stance isn't my idea of fun. If you are giving us that one stance, why not give it benefits the other two dont get? My example (although idk how it would wind up affecting dps) is to give it 2 chi from SCK and maybe even a 5 or 10% crit to show the advantage of being a WW. Also i HATE having to reapply Tiger Palm. It's not interesting, it feels like it is just in the way. Instead of making WWs use it 3 times have it apply all 3 in one use. This way, at least it won't slow down the use of other chi attacks. To add more fun to the rotation, i think a CD skill would be interesting, like a power hook or something that hits harder than jab but still gives 2 chi and refreshes Tiger Palm buff to make it more fun. I REALLY LIKE THIS NEXT ONE! FoF is underpowered. Lets admit that. However, if you made a passive skill around mid 40s that removed its channeled requirement (simular to destruction locks RoF), it would make it into a better skill for raiding. The mastery is, sorry to say, nothing short of sad. This can easily be fixed by adding a damage boost to the CB procs about equal to 1.5 or 2x the 5 of activation. This would make mastery more interesting. Utility for WWs is all around very lacking. These next Skills FOCUS on utility for the raid. I hate to say i understand why WW doesnt have a heal. With the roll, JSK etc, it would allow to much movement to prevent the healing most of the time. With that said lets get to the utility moves. You can have one like Red Crane's Protection to reduce the damage of the raid by 20% or so for about 10-15 seconds. On a 3 min CD, it would be a favored move to help prevent aoe wipes. WWs should have a mega buff if they can provide 2 buffs imo, so a heroism that increases mastery instead would be a cool extra mechanic to throw in. This would provide a unique CD buff that can really help in a pinch. Due to the nature of mastery, give it 20 sec duration and a simular debuff to heroism but only for that skill. I think a sacrificial move can really help healing in a raid as well. A 3 min CD move that sacrifices half you current health and heals the raid for that amount would become a risky but valuable move, especially if you create a heal asorbtion bubble equal to the sacrificed health for 6 sec after using it. The last skill i thought of to use is a 5 min CD that fuses your target and your health for 15 sec on a 5 min CD. While this may sound tricky, imagine if your tank is about at 20% and you know a hard hit is coming. You use this skill and your at60%. This will be like giving your 60% to the tank and him giving his 20% to you. AoE heals would also do double the effect if it hits both of you! To help balance it out, after the duration is done, you and the tank share the health percentage (example if your at 70% health when it ends, you and the tank start at 70% of your max health). I know there is problems with some of these skills (especially if you try to use ALL of them) but the WW needs some help and heavy modification is the only realistic way to do it.
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Spacing is king
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90 Pandaren Monk
10505
10/29/2012 08:41 AMPosted by Wongrai
Does anyone know of a reliable BiS trinket list anywhere? ive gotten multiple trinkets from heroics holidays and raid finder and its hard to tell what comes out best.


have this copied down from EJ site as a need to know list.


Relic of Xuen
Terror in the Mists Heroic
Jade Bandit Figurine heroic
Terror in the Mists Normal
Hawkmaster's Talon
Jade Bandit Figurine normal raid trash
Bottle of Infinite Stars Heroic
Bottle of Infinite Stars Normal
Terror in the Mists lfr
Bottle of Infinite Stars lfr
Zen Alchemist Stone
Searing Words
Jade Bandit Figurine lfr
Windswept Pages
Flashing Steel Talisman
Coren's Cold Chromium Coaster brewfest

edit: format change it to WoWhead


funny thing, my dps has actually gone up by 3k by using relic of xuen and bottle (normal version) over relic/hawkmasters talon... yes i use the use on cd. doesn't compete ingame, for me anyway. don't always trust lists. do ingame testing
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90 Pandaren Monk
HC
9450
11/27/2012 10:42 AMPosted by Carini
funny thing, my dps has actually gone up by 3k by using relic of xuen and bottle (normal version) over relic/hawkmasters talon... yes i use the use on cd. doesn't compete ingame, for me anyway. don't always trust lists. do ingame testing


Formulatively, depending on weights, hawkmasters talon is considered a stat gain. Napkin formulation generally does not include much else besides normalized PPM * (stat gain*stat amount) w/ reforge to better non-hit/non-exp stat.

At least when i formulated my personal trinket list thats how i did it. Realistically it just depends on tons of ideas, like the use of heroism, haste breakpoints, and other buffs etc.

I plan on doing a trinket list on the bis profile when it gets updated with upgrade-gear.

I'm also interested in testing Dancing Steel + Windsong vs DS/DS on DW.
Theres potential room for gains

Gotta find some time in the weekend.
Edited by Advanced on 11/27/2012 11:40 AM PST
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Can we please get an update? :(
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90 Dwarf Monk
6840
Dose anyone have any info if tiger's brew affects the dam done by Xuen? If yes would it be better to wait for Xuen to come off cooldown if say he has less than 15secs+ or go ahead and use tigers brew?
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90 Human Monk
6340
hmm my damage breakdown is nothing like the one posted on page 1:

35% auto attack etc..

After a fight its usually black out highest, then RSK, dont remeber past that. Am I doing something wrong? I use RSK every cool down, keep tiger palm up, xuen every time he is up. Not using FoF as much as Id like, maybe that is the issue
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90 Pandaren Monk
10220
After 2 piece the rotation definitely changes to something like: buffs> FOF > RSK > BOK. Obviously that only works when you do not move.
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90 Undead Monk
6615
Hey guys, there seems to a lot of info about the class from a beta point of view but nothing too much current.
As a leveling monk in my late 80's now its been pretty much hit and miss on what to do with no real strong guide lines or current info to support whether the way I'am playing is correct or not.
Even the EJ site is a little hazy with basic info missing that is post beta.
And with what info is available there seems to be a lot of conflict as it seems to be personal opinion compared to what is actual fact as to a cookie cutter model so to speak.
So does anyone know where there is some relevant current info on the class as the opening thread here seems out dated with even the most simple stats and info.
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90 Pandaren Monk
HC
9450
12/05/2012 04:28 PMPosted by Divinechi
After 2 piece the rotation definitely changes to something like: buffs> FOF > RSK > BOK. Obviously that only works when you do not move.


Would like evidence.

12/06/2012 03:26 AMPosted by Judâs
So does anyone know where there is some relevant current info on the class as the opening thread here seems out dated with even the most simple stats and info.


There's still some math being done thats up in the air. Some of the key theorycrafters for WW right now are really busy with progression and dont have alot of time to hunt down evidence.

At simc, we're trying to pinpoint a weird stat scaling problem in the monk profile we've found that might interfere with optimal stat priority. All posts are pretty much stating relevent things, just maybe not in the right order.

I'm also not saying simc is wrong at this point. the class has so many weird optimizations that the value of crit and haste can fluxuate up to a certain point.

Theres definitely a 'haste breakpoint' somewhere and we're just trying to find out where that haste value is at; This breakpoint states when haste becomes devalued with EB due to energy overflow.

Its been tested around 6k haste; we're just trying to find the exact number. Any lower recommendation than that number would still actually be better for non-standstill fights.

Future testing that needs to be done is:
Removing EB from rotation and stacking haste.
Simply priority to allow more flexibility with haste.
Prioritize FoF
Among other things...

If you have any noticed bugs, please contact me in game, post them on EJ, or hop on simc irc.
Edited by Advanced on 12/6/2012 11:33 AM PST
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