5.0 Windwalker PvE Guide

90 Undead Monk
6615
Ok thanks for the reply, can I just ask what i hope are some basic questions then.

I'am level 86 so stats apart from Agility havent really been an issue but now I'am getting towards the pointy end of leveling I want to make sure I have everything in the right place.

Hit and Expertise are still at 7.5% correct?

Agility is still number one stat after the above two, am I looking at Haste over Crit next or vice versa?

Does AP come into the equation at all and is Mastery dead as it is with most specs?

Also FoF, some say use it, some say dont, some say only utilize it at its peak (to me that means multi targets for aoe not single targets but there may be another meaning to it), what it the general consensus on its use if any at all?

And lastly is there a cookie cutter rotation yet at 90?

Thanks for any help given, this will at least steer me in the right direction for 90.
Edited by Judâs on 12/7/2012 12:22 AM PST
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I've been thinking of going WW since I feel like a terribad BW.
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100 Pandaren Monk
11950
Hit and Expertise are still at 7.5% correct?


Yep.

[...] am I looking at Haste over Crit next or vice versa?


I've read so many things about this, it made my head spin. Most recently seeing crit for 2hander and haste for dual wielding. But honestly, a lot of it is testing on my part. Both are good. Haste to keep your energy regen going well enough. And crit to make those RSKs wonderfully delicious to the eyes. I'd say get enough haste to where you feel comfortable in combat, then go with crit.

Does AP come into the equation at all and is Mastery dead as it is with most specs?


Well, does AP come into the equation for what exactly? And mastery is the last stat we want. It's the worst. Though I've seen some swear by having 20% mastery before reforging out of the rest. I guess personal preference. Just remember that they can interrupt your rotation if you're trying to squeeze all of them in. I'm actually thinking about reforging out of more of my mastery. Trying for a while without reforging out of much.

Also FoF, some say use it, some say dont, some say only utilize it at its peak (to me that means multi targets for aoe not single targets but there may be another meaning to it), what it the general consensus on its use if any at all?


Peak to me means something else. Mainly for the fact since FoF damage is split amongst the group. So you'd be doing as much damage versus one mob as you would be with a pack of five. It's not a cleave, if that's what you might be thinking. I don't use FoF on CD. I used to, but there are too many factors to consider. One, am I going to have to move a lot this fight? If so, stopping it midway seems like a waste, and from my understanding is lost damage. Two, if I don't have to move a lot during combat, is potential bad about to be thrown on the ground or other crazy AoE tossed around? If so, skip it until things look better. Three, would I be wasting energy? If yes, then don't.

What I try to do is use FoF, if given good circumstances, when my energy is low. This gives us some damage while we're waiting on our energy regen. By the end you'll be able to jab once or twice more and keep going.

There's not a good place yet I've found to get reliable information that isn't out dated or just horribly misinformed. Things are changing at a rapid pace, so I can understand that. But I really hope some things get nailed down soon by someone. I'm a bit curious about the haste vs crit debate. Moreover, really interested about the trinket situation. I know trinkets that are good for us and all, but I want some numbers. Been using Xuen trinket and RF Bottle. Last week got RF Terror of Mists, but with my own tests, I just feel uncomfortable. I'm far from the one who is a number cruncher. Anyone give me a thought on that?

I know Terror gives base AGI, but Bottle seems to go off often enough that I'm wondering if the Terror is even worth it. Wanted it for so long, then got it after I got my Xuen relic. xD
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90 Draenei Monk
7165
You’re going to click Tigereye Brew, Energizing Brew, Xuen, Rising Sun Kick, and Fists of Fury


Requesting edit from click to press

Please and thank you
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90 Undead Monk
10295
12/16/2012 10:42 PMPosted by Shochu
Also FoF, some say use it, some say dont, some say only utilize it at its peak (to me that means multi targets for aoe not single targets but there may be another meaning to it), what it the general consensus on its use if any at all?


Peak to me means something else. Mainly for the fact since FoF damage is split amongst the group. So you'd be doing as much damage versus one mob as you would be with a pack of five. It's not a cleave, if that's what you might be thinking. I don't use FoF on CD. I used to, but there are too many factors to consider. One, am I going to have to move a lot this fight? If so, stopping it midway seems like a waste, and from my understanding is lost damage. Two, if I don't have to move a lot during combat, is potential bad about to be thrown on the ground or other crazy AoE tossed around? If so, skip it until things look better. Three, would I be wasting energy? If yes, then don't.

What I try to do is use FoF, if given good circumstances, when my energy is low. This gives us some damage while we're waiting on our energy regen. By the end you'll be able to jab once or twice more and keep going.


Good tips regarding FoF, things to keep in mind when using it rotationally (Not on cooldown) are: make sure RSK won't come off cooldown during the channel, make sure you do a Blackout Kick at some point right before you pop FoF so you have a tiny DoT ticking and never ever FoF when you've just popped energizing brew or are energy capped. And keep tiger power up, obvs

There's not a good place yet I've found to get reliable information that isn't out dated or just horribly misinformed. Things are changing at a rapid pace, so I can understand that. But I really hope some things get nailed down soon by someone. I'm a bit curious about the haste vs crit debate. Moreover, really interested about the trinket situation. I know trinkets that are good for us and all, but I want some numbers. Been using Xuen trinket and RF Bottle. Last week got RF Terror of Mists, but with my own tests, I just feel uncomfortable. I'm far from the one who is a number cruncher. Anyone give me a thought on that?

I know Terror gives base AGI, but Bottle seems to go off often enough that I'm wondering if the Terror is even worth it. Wanted it for so long, then got it after I got my Xuen relic. xD


For WW I would recommend you farm shado-pan dailies until revered so you can get the trinket I'm using (Hawkmaster's Talon) as I've found short cooldown, on use haste trinkets to be beastly. Couldn't afford a xuen relic but luckily I got a random trinket drop in an MSV pug which is an exact duplicate of the talon. Currently macro both trinkets into both FoF and energizing brew, one is usually off cooldown and the haste speeds up the FoF cast which is great.

I got an LFR Terror in the Mists and toyed around with it for a while, but the cooldown is so long (I guess at two minutes, comparing its proc to 1 minute cd trinks) that I went back to two haste trinkets, though Terror is quite nice for tanking
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What about the 'Ascension" talent (level 45)? It doesn't seem so bad.
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100 Pandaren Monk
17700
With Ascension as it is now (with the increased energy regeneration) I've gone from all out haste stacking to crit stacking. The haste was more to help with energy so you had less idle time but I found that I was stuck capping energy A LOT. Mind you this was with over 7k haste. I'd have to sit in front of a dummy for a very long time to really see if this is a huge increase but if you feel you have a lot of spare time I'd go for more haste till you feel comfortable with it.

Keep in mind FoF (now that it doesn't lose a tick because of haste) is a nice little energy regeneration trick so long as it doesn't delay RSK or cause you to energy cap.
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100 Pandaren Monk
11950
For WW I would recommend you farm shado-pan dailies until revered so you can get the trinket I'm using (Hawkmaster's Talon) as I've found short cooldown, on use haste trinkets to be beastly. Couldn't afford a xuen relic but luckily I got a random trinket drop in an MSV pug which is an exact duplicate of the talon. Currently macro both trinkets into both FoF and energizing brew, one is usually off cooldown and the haste speeds up the FoF cast which is great.

I got an LFR Terror in the Mists and toyed around with it for a while, but the cooldown is so long (I guess at two minutes, comparing its proc to 1 minute cd trinks) that I went back to two haste trinkets, though Terror is quite nice for tanking


I've long been exalted with them. It's just to me, versus the cost, the trinket doesn't look all that appealing. Yeah it's base AGI, but on Use stuff is pretty meh at best. I usually have to macro my on use trinkets to something just to remember to use them, and to keep clutter off my screen. I just can't understand the appeal though at this point with other trinkets for choices. Maybe they're not the best, but VP grinding this expac leaves me wanting to bang my head on a desk. Far from fun or interesting. I'd just honestly prefer something on an equip than an on use.

Terror has been interesting, but doesn't quite feel up to snuff compared to Bottle. Maybe that's me, not sure. Especially since Bottle is mastery. (Ugh.) I keep my three trinkets on me, but past week have been using Terror. I dunno what to make of it.
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Has it been mentioned that you can build up chi outside of fights with expel harm?

It will come off cooldown when you still have one chi generated from the last use, so you can use it during downtime to stay at max chi.

Sorry if it has been said, I didn't read through every page here, but I thought it was a handy thing to know.
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100 Pandaren Monk
11950
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned in this thread. It's been a while since I've read through this thread, but I know I've seen it mentioned in other threads. Also, SFB to maintain Chi levels. If it doesn't hit a target, it refunds it, and I guess with timing can keep you going. At least at last read I had about this topic.
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100 Gnome Monk
10055
I usually found it best to use FoF when you have around 25% energy, Energizing Brew having a cooldown of 5 seconds or more, RSK having a cooldown of 5 seconds or more, and you and/or the boss will not move for the duration of the channel.

Also to the Crit vs. Haste debate. You don't want to stack Crit in this tier of gear. If you've paid attention to Windwalker Monks on boss fights for DPS and my guild's progression...I have a good idea on how to play this class a little more efficiently.

Also the gemming and talent section needs to be updated, I recommend taking a look at my talents and gems for socket colors. Yes, Ascension out-performs Power Strikes. Additionally, the rotation section needs to updated as follows:

Single Target (Priority)
1. Tiger Power
2. Rising Sun Kick
3. Blackout Kick (Mastery Proc)
4. Blackout Kick
5. Tiger Palm (Mastery Proc)
6. Tiger Palm
7. Jab/Expel Harm/Fists of Fury (read requirements above)

AoE (3 or more)
1. Flying Serpent Kick
2. Jab/Expel Harm
3. Tiger Power
4. Jab/Expel Harm
5. Rising Sun Kick
6. Jab/Expel Harm
7. Fists of Fury
8. Spinning Crane Kick (repeat until you need to use RSK/FoF/FSK or when you need to refresh TP)

Also note on the AoE rotation that you always use your mastery procs before using Jab/Expel Harm.

Cooldowns
1. Invoke Xuen, the White Tiger (at the start and ASAP after)
2. Tigereye Brew x 10 (ASAP)
3. Energizing Brew (Trailing around 25% energy with a slow regeneration rate at present time)
4. Touch of Karma (whenever inevitable huge damage is going to occur either to yourself or the entire raid, Garalon crushing on Heroic, etc. - Glyphing for this is recommended as a range cast vs. melee cast on an excellect survival/reflect ability is always awesome?)
5. Touch of Death (anything that you can get this off on, do it...be sure to glyph for it though so it doesn't burn any Chi)
6. Diffuse Magic (When incoming magic damage is moderate to severe)
7. Zen Meditation (The only fight I've used this on is Heroic Will of the Emperor in MSV, also glyphed so you can move around and soak sparks)
8. Fortifying Brew (read tooltip and wipe drool off chin)

Stat Weights
Weapon DPS = 5.2 or 520
Hit Rating = 3.5 or 350 (Goal is 2550 and the weight after that is 0)
Agility = 3 or 300
Expertise Rating = 2.75 or 275 (Goal is 2550 and the weight after that is 0)
Haste Rating = 1.6 or 160
Critical Strike Rating = 1.3 or 130
Mastery Rating = 0.75 or 75

Qifa the Great © 2013 Pro Tips
- Use ReforgeLite, and Pawn. (Stat weights can be used above)
- Configure your Boss warning add-on to warn you/show information that is relevant to you and only you
- Use CLCInfo (with the Monk plugin set to the rotation mentioned above)
- To calculate how valuable trinkets are, let's do an example:
Terror in the Mists
- 1300 (Static Agility gain) * 3 (Weight per 1 Agility) = 3900
- 7796 (Critical Strike Rating gain) * 1.3 (Weight per 1 Critical Strike Rating) = 10134.8
- 3900 + 10134.8 = 14034.8 Total

You can now do this with any trinket to rate it's value to you.

Attack Power and Strength are valuable (albeit on the bottom of the list) but I honestly would just forget about using anything with those 2 stats on it.

Oh and to the OP, see if you can change it to 5.1 ;)

Has it been mentioned that you can build up chi outside of fights with expel harm?

It will come off cooldown when you still have one chi generated from the last use, so you can use it during downtime to stay at max chi.

Sorry if it has been said, I didn't read through every page here, but I thought it was a handy thing to know.


Yes but it's honestly not even worth it.
Edited by Qifa on 1/3/2013 12:36 PM PST
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100 Gnome Monk
10055
AoE (3 or more)
1. Flying Serpent Kick
2. Jab/Expel Harm
3. Tiger Power
4. Jab/Expel Harm
5. Rising Sun Kick
6. Jab/Expel Harm
7. Fists of Fury
8. Spinning Crane Kick (repeat until you need to use RSK/FoF/FSK or when you need to refresh TP)


I'm sorry, but I must be missing something here. Jab is prioritized over SCK? IF we did that we could never SCK ever cuz if you have the energy to SCK you can jab, and jab is in no way an AoE. Or is this some kind of Rotation?


It's some type of rotation, execute 1-7 then repeat 8 indefinitely.
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90 Pandaren Monk
7365
What would you say is the minimum dps if you Follow the guide?

I go to Noxxic and my minimum is 60k.
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100 Gnome Monk
10055
I'm around 110k on fights that don't enhance damage.
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90 Human Hunter
10180
You totally ignore the lvl 45 talent Ascension. This is a nice little DPS increase once you begin to accumulate a good amount of haste and thus regen. The 15% regen buff from this talent is no small buff and should not be overlooked. This talent really shines when you use a two hander.
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90 Pandaren Monk
3605
one problem is thinking that the current windwalker has a set rotation. not on my monk (even in windwalker spec), nor on my paladin in prot spec did i follow someone else's "fixed" rotation.

With our mastery how it currently sits there is no fixed rotation. generally do rising sun kick on cooldown, jab before you run into 100 energy prioritizing that over using a mastery proc if you're going to hit 100 energy, and if you've got more than probably 3sec of tiger power left spend any chi on blackout kick while you're waiting for RSK cooldown.

And FoF isn't bad to use for single target.. it does it's damage spread evenly over all targets it hits. It's not like spinning crane kick where it does lower damge per target but more targets means more damage. It does a fixed amount of damage everytime you use it.

Pretty much keep tiger power on, use rising sun kick every cooldown for single target fights, extra chi on blackout kick or FoF.

For aoe keep tiger power on, maintain the RSK debuff, use RJW after tigereye brew if you're going to pop that then spin 3-4 times and reapply RSK and/or tiger power as needed.

There's really no fixed rotation for windwalker dps as it sits in 5.1, just priorities of things to do.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
9340
What about grapple weapon in pve?.. or is that only a pvp talent?
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100 Gnome Monk
10055
01/08/2013 08:03 PMPosted by Fujiko
What about grapple weapon in pve?.. or is that only a pvp talent?


Mostly PvP.
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90 Pandaren Monk
16665
01/08/2013 08:03 PMPosted by Fujiko
What about grapple weapon in pve?.. or is that only a pvp talent?


Works on most trash with a weapon and on boss fights with weapon-wielding adds. Pretty decent damage boost.
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