5.0 Mistweaver PvE Guide

90 Tauren Monk
16335
This guide isn't actually very accurate. A better one is in the works.
Reply Quote
61 Pandaren Monk
11090
09/29/2012 06:56 PMPosted by Mist
This guide isn't actually very accurate. A better one is in the works.


Hope a new guide will make Mistweaver bearable.
Reply Quote
Hey all, thanks for the commentary! My wife's been in the hospital so I've been a little schedule-disrupted for a few days.

1) In your Primary Healing Abilities section, you could mention that Enveloping Mist becomes instant-cast to your target if you are channelling Soothing Mist on the target (since you mentioned that for Surging Mist). Additionally, an important element of EM is that once a target has EM ticking, your SoM heals for 30% extra through its duration!

2) In your Everything Else section, you mention that Spear Hand Strike is free (I suspect from the fact you mention Brewmaster Teachings that this is just a copy-pasta error from a Brewmaster guide you're authoring); in fact, there is a mana cost associated with it for Mistweavers.

My final suggestion would be that you might want to put a... disclaimer? near the top of the guide indicating that it is not intended as a levelling guide (most of us won't make that mistake, but... just think of the potential demographics of Monk players who might come here looking for information... we're going to get a lot of new-to-the-forums people, I'd imagine, and lots of not-at-level-cap people).

Great comments, fixed everything you mentioned!

09/28/2012 09:13 AMPosted by Shridevi
Can we compile a list of BiS gear at different levels?

On my to-do list, if nobody else does it first.

09/28/2012 10:27 PMPosted by Rekuja
One question however.. is it possible to build a Mistweaver Monk as a pure "ranged healer?" even at level 90 with heroic dungeons/raids?

I've seen people arguing both sides on this one. :) Once raiding opens up, we'll get a lot more feedback on how effective the two styles are.

09/29/2012 06:56 PMPosted by Mist
This guide isn't actually very accurate. A better one is in the works.

While I respect your opinion, this isn't very constructive. Can you tell me specifically what's inaccurate, or what you think isn't done well? (Remember, this is designed more as a 101 guide, not advanced theorycraft.) Personally, I really like Dayani/Dedralie's guide on Healiocentric.
Edited by Alamonk on 9/30/2012 11:29 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Orc Monk
8995
I honestly would say crit would be at the bottom of my stat priority. Haste to soft cap and then mastery just after that (once I have comfortable spirit) is what I am aiming for. The amount the mastery healing spheres can heal for (ive seen 60k crits) as well as how often they spawn actually seems to be VERY beneficial in raids. All those people around, of course they will be running over spheres - which saves everyone's mana.

Most of this guide is good however that stat weighting I would have to disagree with in my personal opinion.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Monk
12425
I honestly would say crit would be at the bottom of my stat priority. Haste to soft cap and then mastery just after that (once I have comfortable spirit) is what I am aiming for. The amount the mastery healing spheres can heal for (ive seen 60k crits) as well as how often they spawn actually seems to be VERY beneficial in raids. All those people around, of course they will be running over spheres - which saves everyone's mana.

Most of this guide is good however that stat weighting I would have to disagree with in my personal opinion.
Mastery may feel like it's good as long as people pick up the balls, but the math just doesn't support that feeling:

http://www.temerityofwindrunner.com/mistweaver/calc.html

The problem with mastery is that the proc rate of most spells is normalized around you getting roughly [mastery percentage] procs per second. This means that 1% mastery ups your hps by 1% of the healing done by a sphere, meanwhile an equal amount of haste ups the hps of anything that scales with haste by 1.2% and an equal amount of crit increases the hps of every spell you have by 0.8%. This means that crit beats out mastery for any spell whose hpct is more than 1.25X the healing done by the mastery sphere, which is going to be the spells that account for most of your healing. And we haven't even started accounting for the 'jackasses not picking up the !@#$%^-ed balls' factor.

Haste, on the other hand, is okay for situations when you're building chi with SCK or soothing- those two spells scale with it; however, the spells you spend the chi they generate on rarely do. You should also keep in mind that as per the norm in the first tier of an expansion mana's going to be at a premium and haste is effectively negative mp5. And of course haste is pretty terrible for fistweaving.

Just trust me on this one: spirit >>> int > haste to 1345 > crit > mastery <> haste past 1345.
Reply Quote
90 Orc Monk
8995
Mastery may feel like it's good as long as people pick up the balls, but the math just doesn't support that feeling:

http://www.temerityofwindrunner.com/mistweaver/calc.html

The problem with mastery is that the proc rate of most spells is normalized around you getting roughly [mastery percentage] procs per second. This means that 1% mastery ups your hps by 1% of the healing done by a sphere, meanwhile an equal amount of haste ups the hps of anything that scales with haste by 1.2% and an equal amount of crit increases the hps of every spell you have by 0.8%. This means that crit beats out mastery for any spell whose hpct is more than 1.25X the healing done by the mastery sphere, which is going to be the spells that account for most of your healing. And we haven't even started accounting for the 'jackasses not picking up the !@#$%^-ed balls' factor.

Haste, on the other hand, is okay for situations when you're building chi with SCK or soothing- those two spells scale with it; however, the spells you spend the chi they generate on rarely do. You should also keep in mind that as per the norm in the first tier of an expansion mana's going to be at a premium and haste is effectively negative mp5. And of course haste is pretty terrible for fistweaving.

Just trust me on this one: spirit >>> int > haste to 1345 > crit > mastery <> haste past 1345.


oh okay wow thanks. I will have to test that out in raids this coming week. Nice to see people actually did the math to see how it all played out!
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Monk
10695
I honestly don't know how you can mistweave without meleeing at least a good portion of the time. I mean, sure you can heal at ranged for a while if necessary, but jab is such a huge chi generator I don't know how you could get along without for too long. Not to mention that auto attack eminence is mana free, practically passive, healing. I am very confused by people claiming to have mana issues at melee but not at ranged. It seems to me to be the exact opposite.
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Monk
4235
cool right now im a brewmaster(tank) but my raid group when i get 90 might need a healer so thanks for the guide
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Monk
14255
Chi is a static 4-point pool, similar to a paladin’s holy power, that decays when out of combat. Unlike the other specializations, where chi abilities are essential and energy abilities are used mainly to build chi, chi usage as a mistweaver is secondary to mana-using spells. That doesn’t mean you can ignore chi, however; chi heals, specifically, Uplift, are very critical.


The relative importance of chi-builders versus chi-spenders is both subjective and serves little to no purpose in a guide. Both types of abilities play very important roles in our healing. Basically, I don't think this paragraph says anything important whatsoever. What's important is choosing the efficient chi-builder for your current situation, and spending that chi to build mana tea stacks.

Fistweaving or Mistweaving: You Choose

Mistweavers have the capability to do some limited DPS healing (similar to Smite/Atonement disc priests) due to their passive ability Eminence, which causes 50% of (most) of their damage to be converted to a smart heal on the lowest-health target. This is doubled if the mistweaver drops a Jade Serpent Statue, which should be up for every fight due to its short cooldown. While DPS healing is not required, it provides a fun and effective way to heal at times where incoming damage is relatively low.


Setting this up as a dilemma like this is only going to confuse people. Currently, there is no incentive for leaving melee, but jab is one of our most efficient chi-builders. You basically want to be in melee whenever possible. There are situations where you may let your blackout kick buff fall off, but downplaying the importance of being in melee as a mistweaver right now is going to be detrimental to new monks learning the class.

Single-Target Healing:

Low Damage: DPS heal. Use Jab to generate Chi, then attack with Blackout Kick/Spinning Crane Kick (see Teachings of the Monastery) and let Eminence + the Jade Serpent Statue heal. If you choose not to melee, then simply use Soothing Mists.
Medium Damage: Channel Soothing Mist on your target. Cast Surging Mist as necessary, which is instant during the channel.
Heavy Damage: Add in a Enveloping Mist cast to your Soothing Mist + Surging Mist combo. Use Life Cocoon or Thunder Focus Tea + Surging Mist if things look bad.


You should avoid casting surging mist unless it is absolutely necessary. Surging Mist is just way too expensive. For medium damage, you can often get away with jabbing for Chi and spending it on enveloping mist, which is MUCH more efficient.

There's more, but my queue should be up soon.
Edited by Malatii on 10/2/2012 4:30 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Goblin Shaman
0
I think mastery or crit are better than haste AFTER the 1350 mark. that way all of your HoTs get that extra tick. Saying mastery is a junk stat is a bit wrong IMO, it does have a use and most raiders "Should" have an awareness of whats going on around them. Comes down to free heals are good no matter how they come. And when healers are starving for mana you take what ever you can. I also believe on beta the orbs spawned where you where standing which means there is some control to where they go.

Either way very nice thread and I hope it stays alive through the expansion.

Also in response to Malatii you should always be using serge when it's free (after 5 jabs) comes back to free is GOOOD!!
Edited by Acenn on 10/3/2012 1:55 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Monk
16335
10/03/2012 01:50 AMPosted by Acenn
Also in response to Malatii you should always be using serge when it's free (after 5 jabs) comes back to free is GOOOD!!


That's when you have time for TPing for free surges.
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Monk
14255

Also in response to Malatii you should always be using serge when it's free (after 5 jabs) comes back to free is GOOOD!!


It's 5 tiger palms, not jab. Tiger palm is generally a waste of chi outside of 5 mans. But sure, if you've got nothing better to spend your chi on than tiger palm, and happen to have a few stacks of the buff, go ahead and use a surging mist.
Reply Quote
88 Pandaren Monk
5630
I've been hearing about how OP zen sphere is, particularly the explosion, to the point where everyone is absolutely 100% positive it's going to be nerfed, and yet it's the last option listed in this guide? Am I missing something?
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Monk
10030
10/04/2012 11:33 PMPosted by Meerka
I've been hearing about how OP zen sphere is, particularly the explosion, to the point where everyone is absolutely 100% positive it's going to be nerfed, and yet it's the last option listed in this guide? Am I missing something?


The problem is not the explosion being bad, but that the hot is next to useless; and to achieve the explosion you need to spend 4 chi total, 2 for the hot and 2 for the explosion. For the mana to achieve those 4 chi, and the chi itself, there are much better options to be spending those resources on.
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Monk
14255
Zen sphere was bugged. The AoE cap wasn't working. It got fixed last night.
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Druid
12785
I tried oom weaver and decided to go back to my druid, now I am healing every thing with out running out of mana every pull.
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Monk
16335
10/05/2012 04:11 PMPosted by Seventhwinds
I tried oom weaver and decided to go back to my druid, now I am healing every thing with out running out of mana every pull.


Mistweaver mana is far and away better than any other class right now. You weren't properly generating \ using mana tea if you were ooming.
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Monk
8560
WHat Mist said. I am rocking resto druids and all other healing classes. Just have to play the class right.
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Monk
10290
At 90, you NEED to be a Fistweaver, you will burn too much mana otherwise and gain nowhere near enough tea.

You will not spam jab either. You will pool your chi and use Blackout Kick/ Tigerpalm as your heal/ greater heal. Keep Renewing mists up, use Uplift when you can to add time, if your good on your Monestary buffs and dont need to uplift, toss on an enveloping mist on tank and take a breather.

Also, your Expel Harm will be kinda like a random Binding Heal, I dont find myself using it much.
Spinning crane kick in heavy damage to everyone as well if you dont have chi for uplift or your Renewing Mists isnt on people.

It sucks because everything you used leveling is thrown out of the window at 90.

This is a very confusing class and nothing is set in concrete because so few are 90 and everyone thinks differently.

I find that if you have a smart group, the monk is excellent, but we just cannot heal stupidity, it is just... so tough.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]