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To be the best at the class you can be, you need to be capable of doing both interchangeably.
The thing about monk healing is that maximizing chi generation \ dumps is key. Both for HPS and for mana tea. Any time that you are not at all excluded from being in melee for whatever reason, it is entirely in your best interest to do it.
Jab is a cheap and easy way to generate tea reliably. The only other reliable generation is SCK but that isn't very cheap and will oom poorly geared players really easily. Soothing Mist \ Surging mist can gen chi fast when comboed, but that will oom even players with my gear.
You can play entirely at ranged and never fistweave, but at that point you might as well go play a druid or something like that.
I agree with this. The main reason the monk was designed the way it was is so that you can heal from melee while doing a little (and I stress little) DPS. While at this point you might not pass 12-15k in DPS, your heals will be pretty good from actively DPS'ing. As mentioned in previous posts, it is optimal to be doing both fist and ranged. If you want to heal from ranged exclusively, it makes me wonder why you chose a monk.
What is a good way to get used to it? Or am I just unlucky? Yesterday we had an ugly H Stone Guards kill but I never got to try getting into melee because our tanks were getting atomic smashed and with the spirit buff I was mostly main tank healing. I also did 10m Will which also didn't seem like a very melee friendly fight for healers because I tried to keep hots up on both tanks/melee which meant I needed to stand between the bosses. Ive yet to do the other bosses outside of LFR with my guild so Im unsure if Ive just gotten unlucky and only had a chance at meleehealer unfriendly fights or Im just bad.
Certain fights might call for more ranged style healing, but if the fight affords the chance, at minimum I would be in auto attacking and keeping SZ up. I know how the Will fight goes, it's not fun for a fistweaver :(
In 5man heroics and 25man I do very well. Lfr Im just under our raid shamans. We run 2 10man raid groups. Maybe 3k below that top shaman and fight the #2 in hps in lfr.
However in our 10man group we are on stone guards still and I just get lost. I can fistweave and range heal fine in 5m heroics and lfr but 10m I just cant find my place. Ive never been in a lfr where i wasnt the only monk the entire time so i dont know how to compare my playing to anyother monk. Ive seen one bm in a heroic.
Utube and wol just tell me enough. I need see and compare another monk.
Im not really sure what Im asking here either. When i do very well i oom. when try to conserve mana I fall way behind and we die. So either way we wipe. Some of its isnt me. A lot of miss taunts are a big cause of wipes. But some of it is me, I'm sure. Ive done heroics in ds on priest shaman and druid so I know how to heal. I just cant fine my groove on this monk.
Honestly, I really disagree with a lot of this post.
RE: Our Mastery - I find it's consistently in the top 5 of my healing doing close to 10%. It's definitely powerful, especially on a movement oriented or grouped fight which a lot of them are now a days. While I think it's only great to a certain % it's a stat that shouldn't be totally ignored, especially considering the amount of overhealing crit can do compared to the sphere.
RE: Glyph of Mana Tea, while I can see the value in this glyph for pvp, overall though I don't like it There's plenty of chances to channel 3-4 stacks at least and a large number of fights where we don't really have to be active all the time. If you are skilled enough to be able to know when to use it and when to interupt it, it's quite easy to use. And at low mana, frankly I think glyph of mana tea is useless. It gives you one less thing to think about and if your other healers are reliable, it's not a problem.
RE:Glyph of Uplift
Why would you choose to spend mana on an ability that you don't need to? Between expel harm and renewing mists, I'm hardly chi starved and when the group is spread it provides an easy aoe heal chi dump, removing that removes a lot of value. And frankly what else are you spending your chi on?
Frankly, Chi Torpedo is consitantly up in the top five of my healing as well. It heals for about 50k a pop, heals everyone it touches - if aligned well can be a large number of people - and it's free. With celerity, I get 3 free heals every 60 seconds or so. On heavy raid damage fights it's invaluable. Xuen, while a decent cooldown I don't feel provides the same benefit.
I've really yet to see this as a viable way to heal. If you want to play a dps, play a dps. But you shouldn't be using a rotation here. I give myself two stacks of serpents zeal on low damage phases and melee, sure. But i would hardly call this a reasonable way to play the class. You should be mixing both, not focusing on one thing. The sheer output lost from ignoring your mana driven spells is not worth the smart heal aspect of it or the damaging part.
So far, every smart heal that's been added to the game has easily been outhealed by someone who knows where to place their heals. Your whole instruction manual on how to single target heal is a huge waste of mana. To provide the output on a heavier damage hitting fight, you need to rely on other things than just eminence to heal your tank,
My question is how in the WORLD can you fistweave? I've always had extreme mana issues. Ranged weaving only uses a very small a mount of my mana considering I spam my Chi abilities and usually have 20 stacks of Mana tea about 10mins in a dungeon.
I personally don't Tiger Palm a ton. If I have some free GCD's and chi to spend, I do, or if I need to put DPS into the boss more than healing, I do.
It's based on what's going on with the fight, and your personal abilities to keep things tracked. If the fight is really light damage, sure, why not? If people really don't need the heals, especially if keeping renewing mist up on everyone is doing the job fine, then there's nothing wrong with doing some more damage (and healing from that damage for that matter).
It is a viable way to heal, although you NEED to keep other things in mind. You statue must ALWAYS be down. You MUST have 2 stacks of Sepent's Zeal at all times. Renewing Mist is your PRIMARY Chi builder, not secondary. It has to be constantly on cooldown, always cast on someone who doesn't have it.
For melee/fistweaving, you can't just sit there and keep ReM on CD, and Jab, TP, and BoK till the boss dies, that's not how melee healing works. Jab is a secondary Chi builder as I said, after ReM is on cooldown. I would also say that Expel Harm should come before Jab as a Chi builder purely because it's cheaper. The same goes for Chi spenders. BoK should only be used to either get Serpent's Zeal up, and to keep it from dropping at less than 3 seconds left on the buff. As I said above, Tiger Palm is situational & skill based. If you can handle heavy AoE and casting 1 tiger palm every 20 seconds, more power to ya. Other than that, Chi needs to be spent on your level 30 talent, or Uplift. The only time you would focus more on actually DPS'ing is when the damage is light.
You last comment about single target healing: If you are raiding with, say, a holy paladin, and YOU are the tank healer, you're doing it wrong. Monks are amazing raid healers. It's better that you leave the single target to healing classes that are better at it.
Just a little note in favor of our jade candy balls. I know - not end game - but the candy came in REALLY handy when my lfg dungeon up in the sky all died except the rogue and I on the first time you are supposed to run into the electric triangle that boss does.
We actually got him down with me gasping for mana because of that candy.
I'd LOVE to see the ability to generate healing and mana candy...god that would be sweet!
So is fistweaving overall better than ranged healing? i seem too oom alot or strain on mana by ranged weaving. ill give fistweaving a shot. The idea of damaging to heal seems weird.
I cannot determine if Mistweaver monks are over all Raid heals or Tank/OT heals.
Tips or advice would be awesome. :)
85 Human Death Knight
I disagree with tiger palm. If everyone is healed and nothing "oh dog doo-doo" is happening, It's great to store up an instant heal for that moment where the tank starts taking a surge of damage. Tiger palm also allows blackout kick and jab to do more damage.
You have to have the patience of a monk and a relatively easy combat situation to use it though.
Damaging to heal is not new. Just new for most people.
Edited by Shaeliss on 10/28/2012 10:40 AM PDT
That's not really fair or accurate.
It's like saying "you can play a feral druid, but you might as well go play a rogue or something like that."
People have their play-styles and the ranged mistweaver is very fun to play.
Now, I haven't gotten my mistweaver up to 90 yet, but I'm having a blast with her just doing ranged healing. It's possible that'll all change, we'll see. But I'm pretty sure there isn't an encounter that forces anyone to play a fistweaver or vise versa.
I healed LFR last night, and with my first experience healing in a "raid scenario" I had the following observations.
I can out-heal and sustain any fight that has targets stacked, especially in a melee-heavy scenario with no problem.
Once folks spread out, or I try to heal ranged, I am pretty gimp save for counting on Renewing Mist and Uplift. Note here that I had originally glyphed Uplift which I will be swapping out, my change in strategy to a more fistweave will grant me ample Chi to spend.
I can heal a tank, but again, lack any burst. So long as I'm streaming my Soothing Mist, I can throw some instant heals, but I bleed mana on my instant direct heal and Enveloping Mist is too slow for an immediate response.
My strategy last night was to primarily utilize Jab and/or Spinning Crane Kick for building Chi, and then targeting the boss, or focused mob and using Chi Burst. I was quite literally hitting all melee in range with the ability and keeping melee up was no problem. Otherwise, I'd only use Renewing Mist on CD and rinse/repeat.
I think that perhaps Chi Wave might allow me to serve as more a ranged DPS healer, but I think our nitch (from my single perspective) is really melee DPS healer. I think Pally's are better tank healers, druids are better "spread AoE" healers (played for an expansion), and a Monk is very much similar to a Shaman (played one for two expansions).
Its entirely possible that because I was in LFR that my strategy currently suffices, and would fail in true raiding, but that would bring up its own concerns. Monks seem to be incredibly proficient at healing the nitch I mentioned, but we don't pack enough punch to swap for other types of fights. As an example, I finished in top two heals (not patting myself on the back at all, as I'm not where near as proficient as I'd like to be) or top healing my first time out for all fights but the last where DPS were spread all over the place and I couldn't take advantage of the stack (similar to Shaman's Healing Tide, or whatever its called).
I'd like some feedback on offering ideas for "gap fillers". I know many folks went Chi Wave so maybe that is the answer. For those who discounted Chi Burst though, its incredibly powerful if you can stand among the melee DPS.
Tank Healing: Soothing Mist, Surging Mist, Enveloping Mist, Mist Shield (forget name) - no real oomph unless you get some lucky crits on Surging.
AoE Stack: SCK / Jab, Chi Burst
General: Renewing Mist on CD
TLDR: Mistweavers seem very strong and hold a solid nitch in healing that seems to already be available from a Shaman and capable of being covered by a Druid. Tank healing seems lacking in any burst heals and left me wanting. I find my "rotation" or spell usage simple for the output and yet unsatisfied by the few abilities used. The greater challenge was in healing and "living as a MDPS" where I was at greater risk of being gibbed by mechanics RDPS and most healers avoid.
It's perfectly fair and accurate because you literally cut out half of your toolkit when you don't sit in melee and "fistweave."
You are essentially defeating the purpose of the class when you never go into melee. When you're not in melee, you're literally a resto druid. If you ever plan on going into heroic content, you'll need to do it on a lot of fights to push out max efficiency.
I don't like being negative, but I have issues reading guides from people who have not done a single raid and don't enchant their gear. It doesn't make it look too serious.
Obviously it's a new class, so people will try to find information where they can, so do I, but there are many questionable points in your guide, that my experience as disc priest/holy paladin/resto druid tells me they are, inaccurate.
Then again, not saying I know everything, but at least make sure people have choice and put the links to the other guides at the beginning so people can cross-reference.
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