The Alliance Deserves Better than This

85 Blood Elf Mage
4320
I think this thread was TL:DR for general discussion so here it goes in story.

This expansion focuses heavily on red-versus-blue, and doesn't really feature a PvE "big bad evil guy" as such. There's the Sha, but it's almost really a manifestation of war itself as enemy.

Let me sum up the results of 8 years of conflict so far: the Alliance has lost Southshore and Silverwind Refuge, Theramore has been destroyed with a nuclear weapon, as has the forested part of Stonetalon Mountains. The Night Elves' unblemished record of failure as protectors of nature nears completion as the Horde's loggers drive further up Ashenvale; if anything happens to Feralas they will be well and truly out of intact forests to protect and presumably forced to retire as a playable race.

In return, the Alliance got: Camp Taurajo. They kicked over 3 tents and a coleman stove.

Now, this is a Horde toon, and it was my main. I played Ally for most of vanilla and BC, and decided to see how the other side lived for Wrath and Cata though I had little opportunity to play in the last year. But I have always been blue at heart, and this is killing me.

I know the game's authors' Horde spirit is not new; they have a statue of an Orc of a Worg outside their HQ. Last night at release event in Irvine they were shouting "for the horde" and mocking Ally players for the destruction of Theramore. This strikes me as the equivalent of the commissioner of baseball saying he's a huge Yankees fan and hopes they always win. Isn't he supposed to remain an impartial facilitator and ensure everyone has a fair shot, at least while he's on the clock? These Blizz guys aren't even pretending to be fair. I pay my $15 a month, same as the Horde faithful. Either stop treating my faction like it's a foil for the Horde, or stop charging me the same as you charge them. We're not just player-controlled mobs, here. This game's supposed to be fun for everyone.

Some have suggested that this trend is a consequence for Ally players' lackluster attitude towards world PvP over the years. That is a valid concern, and I think the addition of Draenei and Worgen as opposed to Blood Elves and Goblins has been an attempt to rectify that. But if they were going to take that trend as a license to storyline-kill half the faction and render our most popular race's entire raison d'etree a humiliating failure by wrecking one forest after another, I think they ought to have warned us. The alliance's lack of enthusiasm for world PvP has a lot to do with the fact that we don't think it matters! If you'd told us it DID, it would have changed everything! The Horde has, and has always had, superior esprit-du-corps. If this is your way of trying to change that, and if anything we do can possibly change it, say so!

I am retiring this belf toon. It's back to a blue tabard and corpse-camping those knuckle-dragging, child-murdering, devil-worshiping filthy mutants until the people who play them, who find playing evil a more escapist experience than playing good precisely because of how sheltered they are, depart in frustration.

I don't know where the writers get off thinking it is acceptable to take sides in their own video game; this strikes me as conceited as well as unfair. If we need to PvP moar before we can earn any concessions for our faction from the authorities, TELL US. Don't let us wonder why this is being done! Just tell us what we have to do.
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100 Human Mage
9210
It's got nothing to do with PvP. It has everything to do with the fact that the writers have a far easier time writing for the Horde than the Alliance. The Horde is controversial, violent, has sex appeal (Damn tauren and blood elves), and even a dose of drug abuse (blood elves again), on top of weapons of mass destruction and the will to use them, etc...

In short, the Horde's thematics often appeal to the basest instincts we seek in entertainment. Places and situations we never want to be in, but fantasize about living out. There's also a strong degree of deep wisdom and morals beneath all that, but each successive expansion has dumped more, 'Rule of Cool,' onto of it, heaping layer after layer, until one needs a backhoe to get at the morals.

By contrast, they can't figure out what to do for the Alliance. They ripped away the only thematics it had and made them neutral, or in some cases (the night elves) completely ripped away certain thematics that clashed with humanity's civilized air.
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85 Blood Elf Mage
4320
09/25/2012 07:51 PMPosted by Elenie
By contrast, they can't figure out what to do for the Alliance. They ripped away the only thematics it had and made them neutral, or in some cases (the night elves) completely ripped away certain thematics that clashed with humanity's civilized air.


Indeed. They were a matriarchial race with female fighters and male casters, and savagely defensive of their forests.
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100 Human Mage
9210
09/25/2012 07:56 PMPosted by Maenas
By contrast, they can't figure out what to do for the Alliance. They ripped away the only thematics it had and made them neutral, or in some cases (the night elves) completely ripped away certain thematics that clashed with humanity's civilized air.


Indeed. They were a matriarchial race with female fighters and male casters, and savagely defensive of their forests.


It was an interesting angle, and if they'd only been prepared to continue playing the gender-role card and allowing their females to remain savage, it could have played out well. Tyrande and Malfurion certainly helped set the tone for the race. Night Elven men could have been the more diplomatic sort while their women were more militant. They could have still joined the Alliance, but you'd be able to tell by gender what kind of quest or dialogue you'd get from a Night Elf NPC.
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99 Undead Priest
3110
It's got nothing to do with PvP. It has everything to do with the fact that the writers have a far easier time writing for the Horde than the Alliance. The Horde is controversial, violent, has sex appeal (Damn tauren and blood elves), and even a dose of drug abuse (blood elves again), on top of weapons of mass destruction and the will to use them, etc...

In short, the Horde's thematics often appeal to the basest instincts we seek in entertainment. Places and situations we never want to be in, but fantasize about living out. There's also a strong degree of deep wisdom and morals beneath all that, but each successive expansion has dumped more, 'Rule of Cool,' onto of it, heaping layer after layer, until one needs a backhoe to get at the morals.

By contrast, they can't figure out what to do for the Alliance. They ripped away the only thematics it had and made them neutral, or in some cases (the night elves) completely ripped away certain thematics that clashed with humanity's civilized air.


I think you nailed it. A good way to remedy this might be to return to more of a "gray vs. gray" attitude, which would allow both factions to do antagonistic things without becoming completely villainous.
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29 Undead Monk
2555
The gnomes need to develop some kind of radioactive bomb and use it during a pivotal battle against the Horde. Because of it, they win the battle, but then it causes all kinds of moral conflicts in the Alliance. Basically have the Gnomes (and some members of the other races) advocating using the technology if they have it, while others condemn what they believe is stooping to the Horde's level in the aftermath of Theramore.

Maybe in desperation to combat the Horde they steal some of Thermaplugg's tech and start developing it. C'mon. Give the Alliance Mechano-spiders!
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88 Night Elf Druid
990
It's not like it's hard to write material for the Alliance. It's just hard if you don't care to.
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100 Draenei Paladin
12505
09/25/2012 10:40 PMPosted by Lyrtes
It's not like it's hard to write material for the Alliance. It's just hard if you don't care to.
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100 Night Elf Warrior
7215
The notion that the factions DESERVE something in the story line is freaking insane, and I still can't believe this meme like plague has got a strangle hold on the lore community.

It's no coincidence that the people who are the most suspicious of this developer faction bias also happen to be very biased against the other faction them self.

It's absurd, absolutely absurd and it's beyond the point of going too far.
Edited by Elrith on 9/25/2012 10:49 PM PDT
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91 Night Elf Druid
9065
The notion that the factions DESERVE something in the story line is freaking insane, and I still can't believe this meme like plague has got a strangle hold on the lore community.

It's no coincidence that the people who are the most suspicious of this developer faction bias also happen to be very biased against the other faction them self.

It's absurd, absolutely absurd and it's beyond the point of going too far.


Both factions DO deserve stories of their own.

I'm far from what you would called biased against the Horde, but to be fair, I don't think there is faction bias either.

Other than, of course, Blizzard just not knowing how to write the Alliance. If they don't find it interesting, that's not bias. It's just that they let it stagnate to long, and thus it seems dead.
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100 Human Warrior
16460
Alliance heavy expansion - Not actually Alliance heavy, but Alliance theme heavy. Serving to strip away what makes Alliance unique and letting Horde feel a part of it.

Horde heavy expansion - Horde heavy expansion.
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88 Night Elf Druid
990
For me, the writing was on the wall in Vanilla. The faction leaders on the Horde side were all popular, recognizable, badass characters from "Warcraft 3" (and Vol'jin). The leaders of the Alliance were a bunch of nobodies. Lest you think this was an accident, they quarantined the most recognizable and heroic Night Elf character, then replaced him some !@#$%^- rather than the other most heroic and recognizable Night Elf. Tell me this doesn't sound like marked disinterest in one party?
Edited by Lyrtes on 9/26/2012 12:30 AM PDT
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09/25/2012 07:34 PMPosted by Maenas
Last night at release event in Irvine they were shouting "for the horde" and mocking Ally players for the destruction of Theramore.


They're STILL going at it?

!@#$%^-, guys, it's time to grow up already...
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91 Night Elf Druid
9065
09/26/2012 12:30 AMPosted by Lyrtes
For me, the writing was on the wall in Vanilla. The faction leaders on the Horde side were all popular, recognizable, badass characters from "Warcraft 3" (and Vol'jin). The leaders of the Alliance were a bunch of nobodies. Lest you think this was an accident, they quarantined the most recognizable and heroic Night Elf character, then replaced him some !@#$%^- rather than the other most heroic and recognizable Night Elf. Tell me this doesn't sound like marked disinterest in one party?


Tyrande was far better than Malfurion.
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100 Human Warrior
16460
Lest you think this was an accident, they quarantined the most recognizable and heroic Night Elf character, then replaced him some !@#$%^- rather than the other most heroic and recognizable Night Elf.


I'm not sure what you mean here.

Tyrande was the defacto leader of the Night elves during the Long Vigil, which was a long time. She also featured primarily in WC3's Night elf campaign. She was a very easily recognized character from WC3 with an established background of leading the Night elves.

My gripes about Tyrande currently aside, she's the exception to this rule you're mentioning. Varian was also mention in the WC2 manual iirc but it was spelled differently and we never saw him in the RTS.
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100 Human Mage
9210
I think you nailed it. A good way to remedy this might be to return to more of a "gray vs. gray" attitude, which would allow both factions to do antagonistic things without becoming completely villainous.


The issue here is the same issue you see with people jumping off the bridge with the, 'High King,' threads. No one wants to see a Blue Horde or a Red Alliance. People want unique, different factions, who are different, full of differences, and differ.

. . .

Different.

Sorry, not sure I could say that enough =D

Anyways, Blizzard needs to take some serious time to really polish the Alliance, and unfortunately, they've written themselves into a corner. Bringing all the neutral factions -back- to the Alliance causes an issue, because they have Horde member-races within them, forcing those people to betray the Horde or remain loyal to their organization. Even then, how should the Alliance trust them? Not only that, but Horde players would see the Alliance gain something and demand equal compensation and addition, and the Horde at this point does -not- need additions.

At this point, what can they do? Start up new organizations in the line of thought of the Old? A new order of Paladins? A new order of Mages? A new order of Druids? That makes the neutral factions rather pointless for the Alliance, and will force the Alliance's new orders to be sidelined come another expansion where they are needed.

What the Alliance -really- needs at this point is a Renaissance period in the Lore, a chance to rebuild and fortify the lands it has, and expand on what it has. So the Alliance lost Dalaran; why aren't the Highborne taking greater precedent? Why not give them some nice places out in the world with the kinds of architecture we saw in the Well of Eternity Instance? Why don't we see a shift in Night Elven culture as a result of the war; Mages are revered and respected for protecting the people, while Druids are cold-shouldered for having ignored their people, holding themselves above them, insisting they had a higher purpose and calling, which opens up the Druid's eyes to the fact that they've become as bad as the Highborne were back when Azshara was Queen.

The dwarves have learned -numerous- facts about their origins from the Titans, and they've acquired artifacts and allies from it all. Why aren't they using any of this? Why don't we see some buildings like from Northrend, used to empower Titan-based weapons and armaments for the Dwarves? Perhaps this drive for greatness, to bring their great past to the future, is the catalyst that brings the Three Clans together at last in total harmony? Why can't the Dwarven Kingdom establish itself as the Dwarven Empire in this manner?

The worgen have to adapt to a new lifestyle, so why don't we see them adapting? Why don't we see them at all? Because they're running around the wilds on a hunt? That's a poor excuse for leaving them undeveloped and we all know it. There is a real chance to see vast changes with the Worgen, incorporating Gilnean culture -into- it as well. Perhaps, 'Packs,' become a system of Clans for the worgen? The establish settlements around the world for their Packs, etc...

There is no reason the Gnomes shouldn't have reclaimed their home yet. Personally I think they should also take some inspiration from their Titan roots and begin more refined studies. I was rather miffed to learn their priests were just medics when they had all that Titan stuff to draw from in Wrath of the Lich King. The Spark of Creation, The Spark of Imagination, why couldn't these have been their, 'Holy,' and, 'Shadow,' schools, exactly? Why couldn't we see a gnomish movement, not of faith, but of philosophy, born out of this? That they draw their power from these Sparks not only as actual sources of power, but also as concepts? "The Spark of Creation doesn't only exist in Northrend; it exists in all of the Titan's children."

There is just... soo much to draw off of, and nothing has been done. Admittedly a war is a poor time for a Renaissance, but since the Alliance was apparently not doing a whole lot during the war in Cataclysm anyways (seriously, human 1-30 zones were the saddest thing I've ever seen), there's no reason a few of the member-states couldn't have undergone all this.
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09/26/2012 12:46 AMPosted by Mordstreich
I'm not sure what you mean here.


He means that Malfurion Stormrage, which was one of the most prominent, if not the most prominent Night Elf character during WCIII (You know, the one Tyrande called when !@#$ went straight to hell, the one with super druidic powers, the one who sounded the Horn) was stunted aside and substituted for Fandral Staghelm... WHich is an interesting character in his own right, I think, but still was pulled from nowhere, when we could've been with Malfurion since the start.
It would have made the hell of a difference.
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100 Human Mage
9210
09/26/2012 07:28 AMPosted by Heon
I'm not sure what you mean here.


He means that Malfurion Stormrage, which was one of the most prominent, if not the most prominent Night Elf character during WCIII (You know, the one Tyrande called when !@#$ went straight to hell, the one with super druidic powers, the one who sounded the Horn) was stunted aside and substituted for Fandral Staghelm... WHich is an interesting character in his own right, I think, but still was pulled from nowhere, when we could've been with Malfurion since the start.
It would have made the hell of a difference.


Nothing we can do about the past now, aside from complain and pointed out what didn't work. Best to focus on what we -can- do now, and for the future of the story.
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He means that Malfurion Stormrage, which was one of the most prominent, if not the most prominent Night Elf character during WCIII (You know, the one Tyrande called when !@#$ went straight to hell, the one with super druidic powers, the one who sounded the Horn) was stunted aside and substituted for Fandral Staghelm... WHich is an interesting character in his own right, I think, but still was pulled from nowhere, when we could've been with Malfurion since the start.
It would have made the hell of a difference.


Nothing we can do about the past now, aside from complain and pointed out what didn't work. Best to focus on what we -can- do now, and for the future of the story.


Oh, I know, I know. I'm just ticked off by this thing in the story forums that every and all mention of Malfurion Stormrage has to be followed with another post claiming that Tyrande was/is better than him.

I understood the message that was originally made. Night Elves are part of the Alliance, however, after three expansions, one of their leaders comes back neutral. It hurt. It has nothing to do with Tyrande. I just wanted to emphasize that.

Still, I gave up on this whole Alliance thing. If Blizzard employees are still going off on their self-gratifying Allliance insult fests, even after the whole thing with Cataclysm, then there isn't much hope left. Only until my Annual Pass expires.
Edited by Heon on 9/26/2012 8:03 AM PDT
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100 Human Mage
9210
09/26/2012 08:02 AMPosted by Heon
Only until my Annual Pass expires.


I'm in the same boat, but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy the elements of the story, their past, and theorize how it could get better before my time expires. I've refused to buy Mists of Pandaria.

Guild Wars 2 has been quite fun though.
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