Soul Reaper needs tweaking!

90 Human Death Knight
17225
The delayed damage component to this ability needs to be 3 seconds max. Five seconds is waaaaaay too long. You can't expect a RNG-revolving spec such as Frost to know how much health your target will have in the span of 5 seconds.

I was looking forward to this ability. But, it has been pretty worthless for leveling due to said problem. This same problem will also cause issues with PvP as well.

We want to use our new shiny buttons. Please design them so that we can.
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90 Troll Warrior
16215
For leveling:

Sometimes your execute isn't effective while leveling. It's really not a huge concern. I don't put up Curse of Elements while questing, and rarely waste time with Chaos Bolt; it's just not a big concern to not use every rotational skill while questing.

For PvP:

Guess. 35% is a decent window, and it hits pretty hard if you get it right. If you want it to be more foolproof to use, expect it to lose some damage.
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90 Human Death Knight
17225
09/27/2012 05:54 AMPosted by Sildas
Guess. 35% is a decent window, and it hits pretty hard if you get it right. If you want it to be more foolproof to use, expect it to lose some damage.


Why? Warrior's Execute hits 3x as hard.

I just want to see our brand new ability made more useful and less gimmicky.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
7430
Why? Warrior's Execute hits 3x as hard.


You also have to wait 15% longer to use Warrior execute, plus GC himself said they're going to be moving some damage out of Execute into more active abilities on Twitter.

Our DK is having no problems using Soul Reaper whatsoever, seems like an l2p issue.
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90 Orc Death Knight
8890
09/26/2012 11:51 PMPosted by Clash
But, it has been pretty worthless for leveling due to said problem


You don't have to wait till 35% to use it.
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90 Human Death Knight
17225
09/27/2012 10:07 AMPosted by Qùess
Our DK is having no problems using Soul Reaper whatsoever, seems like an l2p issue.


lol, oh man, you got me. Man, you got me good with that one...

But seriously, the delayed effect needs to be lowered to 3 seconds or removed completely.
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90 Human Death Knight
17225
09/27/2012 10:14 AMPosted by Foiblesqt
You don't have to wait till 35% to use it.


The issue with leveling and Soul Reaper is the fact that we use two resources. You spend your runes to create the RP. At that point you gauge when to use SR, which should be pretty soon. But, you're out of runes and SR costs a rune. So, you dump your RP. Runes come back up, you hit your SR ability. But the mob usually dies at this point before the 5 seconds are up. Or worse, SR procs just in time to take away that last 3k health of the mob leaving you without the "meh" haste effect. In that scenario, you would have killed the mob faster using your regular abilities. So, it's usually faster to not use the ability at all while leveling. This has been my experience.

PvP is a different story. You have to deal with targets being healed back up during that 5 seconds before the ability goes off. That requires some serious CC chaining to pull off....or a very bad opponent. There are so many variables in PvP, that it will be hard to have an objective discussion based on the use of SR in that area.

Progression based PVE on the other hand...well, it doesn't matter too much whether the ability has a delay or not. Your beating on the boss under 35% for over a minutes usually. Whether the ability does it's damage now or later has much less of an effect on things.

I enjoy raiding. But, I would like my abilities to be functional in all avenues of the game.
Edited by Clash on 9/27/2012 10:30 AM PDT
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90 Human Hunter
5860
l2p issue.
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90 Human Death Knight
17225
09/27/2012 10:56 AMPosted by Youguy
l2p issue.


After a short review of your post history, it seems to me that you would be doing the world a favor by not ever posting again. No. Seriously.
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90 Human Death Knight
17225
09/27/2012 08:22 PMPosted by Vantley
It's an ability that requires prediction. If you can't do that then of course you're going to fail.


And FIVE seconds is too long. You can't predict what will happen when you play a sub-spec like Frost. There is too much RNG with our damage.
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90 Human Death Knight
17225
I wouldn't say it's too RNG. KM procs are numerous and happen frequently, frost's damage is quite sustained at least for DW. 5 seconds isn't very long, I kill mobs in maybe 17 seconds. And anything under 35% is a pretty wide accuracy range. Just do some experimenting when to apply the debuff


Guy, I play this DK as my main. I assure you that I know what I'm talking about. Frost DK is the epitome of RNG. Our resources are even affected by RNG. You cannot predict your targets health over 5 seconds while playing a Frost DK.
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85 Human Priest
6980
09/27/2012 10:07 AMPosted by Qùess
they're going to be moving some damage out of Execute into more active abilities on Twitter.


That rocks! Warriors are going to OWN twitter now!!!
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90 Undead Death Knight
8900
Soul Reaper is fine.
In PVE you use it for two scenarios. One where you want the damage it provides because the monster has an enormous amount of HP and will get continuous big hits from Soul Reaper.
Second scenario is where the monster has a small HP pool and your using it for the 50% haste you will get upon the monsters death to recharge your runes faster.

In PVP Soul Reaper is literally a healers nightmare.
They have to choose between dispelling the debuff or attempting to heal someone up from sub 35%. You could even reliably throw it up on someone at 50% and use Empower Rune Weapon to quickly burst someone down to sub 35% for Soul Reaper to pop on.
Dispells have a lengthy cooldown now compared to Cata, so using soul reaper would allow other dangerous magical debuffs to go out as well like polymorph or repentance.
Edited by Laina on 9/27/2012 10:19 PM PDT
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90 Human Death Knight
17225
Soul Reaper is fine.
In PVE you use it for two scenarios. One where you want the damage it provides because the monster has an enormous amount of HP and will get continuous big hits from Soul Reaper.
Second scenario is where the monster has a small HP pool and your using it for the 50% haste you will get upon the monsters death to recharge your runes faster.

The haste effect isn't worth dealing with unless your playing Blood and pack pulling.

As for everything else PVE related, it doesn't matter whether the damage is delayed or was changed to be instant. When you're probably whacking on something below 35% health for over a minute, you're not really gonna notice the delayed SR mechanic.

In PVP Soul Reaper is literally a healers nightmare.
They have to choose between dispelling the debuff or attempting to heal someone up from sub 35%.

If they heal their target above 35% within those 5 seconds, then they don't have to worry about wasting their dispell do they? That kinda throws a wrench into your theory, no?

As I have said many times before, Soul Reaper is bad and needs to be adjusted. It is not fine.
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90 Undead Death Knight
8900
09/28/2012 01:03 AMPosted by Clash
The haste effect isn't worth dealing with unless your playing Blood and pack pulling.

I guess you just logged into the game at 90 then. If I have a Frost or a Death rune before a mob is dead I use SR on them and by the time I pull the next mob with my refresh on kill Death Grip all of my runes are cooled down.
Also I think you are dramatically underestimating how good it is to increase your rate of resource regeneration by 50% WHEN WE HAVE TIMED CHALLENGE MODE DUNGEONS. Caps lock for emphasis.

If they heal their target above 35% within those 5 seconds, then they don't have to worry about wasting their dispel do they? That kinda throws a wrench into your theory, no?


I'd say my theory is sound considering I've been past 2600 in 3's multiple times when you haven't broken 1700 in 2's or 3s.
I'd venture to guess I know a little bit more about DK pvp than you do.
I've also played a Paladin and Priest healer so can give a fairly good opinion of what a healers reaction to soul reaper would be.
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90 Human Death Knight
17225
09/28/2012 01:48 PMPosted by Laina
I'd venture to guess I know a little bit more about DK pvp than you do.


Then you would know that a healer will only use a dispell on SR when dueling. In competitive PvP, the healer will simply heal up, completely negating your SR unless you have him completely locked down in a CC chain.

People haven't totally figured out the best ways to counter the new stuff just yet. But give them time. You can't judge how an ability is going to play out just by running randoms at the moment.

And for the record, no, I don't Arena very often. And my highest rank was done without using vent or some Glad addon. Pure instincts.

Although I do enjoy PvP, I don't have time to raid and then also put serious time into Arena. So, raiding gets the majority of my focus. But that doesn't mean I'm oblivious to my class. It's like me saying you don't have a clue what you're talking about because you didn't clear Heroic DS.
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90 Undead Death Knight
8900
I did organized arena on the beta and did a lot of world pvp against very skilled players so I can tell you without a doubt that Soul Reaper is in no way underpowered in PvP.

I didn't think it needed to be told to someone that a healer cannot heal when they are locked out, forced to heal someone other than the SR'd target or CC'd.

And for the record the reason I didn't clear Heroic Dragon Soul is because most of my guild stopped playing because that dungeon was one of the most boring raids Blizzard has ever released and I didn't feel like coming back and pugging it while there was a almost 40% buff to make the dungeon easier to clear. Anyone patting themselves on the back for clearing that place should feel rather silly considering that buff.

The ability is excellent for PvE currently and has the potential to be overpowered in PvP. Making it have a 3 second duration would mean it would have to do far less damage than it currently does. Which would make it not even worth using in PvP over harder hitting instant strikes.
Edited by Laina on 9/28/2012 10:13 PM PDT
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