Stromgarde

90 Pandaren Monk
10495
Kul Tiras.

Human kingdoms are forgotten more or less.
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100 Blood Elf Death Knight
8840
This is untrue. The Forsaken betrayed Garithos who, by that point, had performed more treasonous actions against members of the Alliance (mainly the blood elves) than the Forsaken ever had.


Strange viewpoint. I wouldn't consider ordering the Elves to hold and repair a strategic location, cease fraternization with outside forces, and use initiative and creativity to delay and destroy an enemy force 'treasonous'. I wouldn't call it particularly reasonable or moral, either, but treasonous? Really?


Treasonous may be the wrong word but he did try to sentence the leader of an entire kingdom and its greatest warriors to certain death, then sentenced the leader of that kingdom and his greatest warriors to death when they fraternized with outside forces without any form of legal authority beyond having enough men to carry out the action.

Edit: And I meant to post as Amorene and I want to add that Garithos used another kingdom's land to execute the supposed "traitors".
Edited by Mebahiah on 10/5/2012 6:38 AM PDT
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100 Human Paladin
11100
10/05/2012 06:18 AMPosted by Musubi
Human kingdoms are forgotten more or less.
Edited by Gollard on 10/5/2012 7:42 AM PDT
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100 Human Priest
6310
10/05/2012 06:35 AMPosted by Mebahiah
Treasonous may be the wrong word but he did try to sentence the leader of an entire kingdom and its greatest warriors to certain death,


As I recall, they were soldiers fighting under his banner. Ordering them into dangerous situations may be a waste, but it's far from treasonous.

10/05/2012 06:35 AMPosted by Mebahiah
then sentenced the leader of that kingdom and his greatest warriors to death when they fraternized with outside forces without any form of legal authority beyond having enough men to carry out the action.


His authority to do so can be derived from the part where Kael'thas came to fight for him. He voluntarily entered into Garithos's service, and as such, gave the man authority over him.

10/05/2012 06:35 AMPosted by Mebahiah
And I meant to post as Amorene and I want to add that Garithos used another kingdom's land to execute the supposed "traitors".


And that other Kingdom was also an Alliance member nation, and Garithos was the senior surviving military commander in the region.

I have no great love for Garithos, but let's not go pretending his actions regarding Kael'thas can even approach the label of treason, the definition of which is quite specific.
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90 Dwarf Warrior
7545
10/05/2012 02:11 AMPosted by Maihray
The Quel'Dorei were not Highborne, they became High ELVES, essentially the same thing as the Blood Elves, and like I said they wouldn't attack.


Re-read your lore. The High elves were a group of Higborne who's ansestors travelled to the Eastern Kingdoms. The remaining Highbone still go by Quel'dorei. (It's literally "Highborne" in Darnassian.)

The Draenei mages are gifted (although not having the benefit of ten-thousand years of arcane use and devotion to learning more by the entire race), but again I say they wouldn't be mobilized, for the simple reason that the Draenei are too close to the Naaru to really dig in with an inter-faction inter-racial war. They are just too holy, no matter where their formal alliegences lie.


Vindicator Maraad would like to have a word with you. (He's a paladin, but he's a great example of Draenei fighting for the Alliance.) Not every Draenei is sitting their bum in the Exodar. There are PLENTY of draenei of all walks of life fighting for the Alliance.

You make it sound like a bad thing that the Blood Elves wanted, scratch that, needed a break. And he sent out as many troops as he could. Even more people joined of their own free will. The fact that they were dwarfed by all other races is due to them being the mobile portion of the remaining 10%. And my point was that they had dealt with a lot, however I don't see how their survival is a result of the attack. If anything it's in spite of it.


I am not saying taking a break was a bad thing, merely pointing out that I wouldn't expect them to send full support to the Forsaken. (As I said earlier, at the MOST, a token force.)

The Blood elves survived because the Scourge had better things to do.
Edited by Malodin on 10/5/2012 4:51 PM PDT
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10/05/2012 07:53 AMPosted by Everen
I have no great love for Garithos, but let's not go pretending his actions regarding Kael'thas can even approach the label of treason, the definition of which is quite specific.


Like I said in my second post, "treasonous" was the wrong word to use. I apologize.
Edited by Amorene on 10/6/2012 6:10 AM PDT
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100 Night Elf Hunter
6150
And that other Kingdom was also an Alliance member nation, and Garithos was the senior surviving military commander in the region.

I have no great love for Garithos, but let's not go pretending his actions regarding Kael'thas can even approach the label of treason, the definition of which is quite specific.


It's been confirmed that Garithos was a raging racist. He used his position to strip away Kael'thas;s support and kept throwing the High elves into extremely dangerous situations without adequate means to do the missions he demanded of them. Then when they did them, he screamed at them and tried to deny them to use the aid they had before. Plus, he was doing it to the leader of an Alliance nation. He abused his power and unless Kael'thas was plotting to take over the Alliance, it was treason by Garithos to try and execute him and his men.Treason to the Alliance. Kael'thas at the time was no Perinold. He used a damned flimsy excuse to jail the prince and then set an execution date.
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100 Human Mage
9210
10/06/2012 07:04 AMPosted by Kynrind
Plus, he was doing it to the leader of an Alliance nation.


Kael'thas' forces were not Alliance. Quel'thalas formally withdrew from the Alliance at the conclusion of the Second War. There isn't much to suggest they formally rejoined when they offered aid to Garrithos.
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100 Human Priest
6310
10/06/2012 07:04 AMPosted by Kynrind
t's been confirmed that Garithos was a raging racist.


It's also been confirmed that he was the senior surviving commander in region.


10/06/2012 07:04 AMPosted by Kynrind
He used his position to strip away Kael'thas;s support and kept throwing the High elves into extremely dangerous situations without adequate means to do the missions he demanded of them.


Once, actually. Not twice, not three times. He didn't 'keep' sending them into suicide missions, he sent them on exactly one.

10/06/2012 07:04 AMPosted by Kynrind
Then when they did them, he screamed at them and tried to deny them to use the aid they had before.


He had them arrested for disobeying a specific order and fraternizing with a perceived enemy. There is a difference.

10/06/2012 07:04 AMPosted by Kynrind
Plus, he was doing it to the leader of an Alliance nation.


Kael'thas was also a volunteer soldier serving under colour, subordinate to Garithos. His position as the ruler of a newly independent nationstate does not change that, and the direct disobedience of orders (not to mention fraternizing with a perceived enemy!) can warrant execution.

Again, Garithos was plenty awful without pretending he was treasonous.
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