It is time to revisit smart loot: Veto system

90 Blood Elf Paladin
8185
No doubt many of you are already 90. There are heroics to run, dailies to do (upwards of 20+ a day), professions to level, BMAH to camp, and a variety of other things. I have to say, it's pretty engaging how it is - I'm not sitting around much anymore.

That being said, I think it is much different than how it was in cataclysm. In cataclysm, you picked up tabards and did the straight grind of dungeons for rep. Because we ran so many dungeons in cata, gear came as a side product of rep grinding. Now, it's not the case.

I cannot tell you how many mail pieces have dropped in my group, I have lost count. Best part is - Nobody can use them. I understand that this is WoW, and that 100% smart loot would ruin the random drops; I get it, trust me.. What I do not get, however, is why they cannot add in a little algorithm that just decreased the chance of loot that was unusable by the group to drop. Seriously, I have other things to do in MoP.

I like the dungeons, and overall the experience of MoP as a whole. I just think, with the increased world required activity, that it should be a bit easier to gear up in heroic dungeons. I am not talking about this applying to raids, only heroic dungeons. If anything, give an option to veto 1*Boss# items per run - disallowing those items to drop.

A veto system would allow players to at least control, a tiny bit, and prevent or decrease the chance of a specific item dropping and just instantly making the group annoyed. Once I start doing heroics on my alt, I hope to god I'm lucky!
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
10960
You can always just run the dungeon again. I know it isn't the solution you want but it is a solution that requires absolutely no new development work.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8185
09/28/2012 11:18 AMPosted by Arrastos
You can always just run the dungeon again. I know it isn't the solution you want but it is a solution that requires absolutely no new development work.

lol, I realize this. Guess you do not realize what I am saying in terms of a time management solution for some players.
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90 Troll Priest
7730
This is what JP should be used for
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09/28/2012 11:31 AMPosted by Absurdity
This is what JP should be used for


Jp has no value

It cant be used for normals or even LFR.

The gear requirement for LFR is 463, so you have to have all heroic gear, you arent even allowed to carry a single JP piece.
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90 Troll Priest
7730
09/28/2012 11:39 AMPosted by Sarosha
This is what JP should be used for


Jp has no value

It cant be used for normals or even LFR.

The gear requirement for LFR is 463, so you have to have all heroic gear, you arent even allowed to carry a single JP piece.


I'm aware
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8185
09/28/2012 11:39 AMPosted by Sarosha
Jp has no value

That was the point of his original post. This also makes the gear grind longer than cata.
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90 Human Rogue
10990
09/28/2012 11:39 AMPosted by Sarosha
Jp has no value


The value is it can help you do better in said heroics until you get the pieces to replace them.
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What we are going to get this expansion is the return of the tank/healer bail

First boss drops the loot piece needed, it doesnt drop or someone else wins roll, drop group instant queue again.

Its BAD DESIGN.

Given a choice of working harder or making other players miserable

NO ONE CHOOSES WORK HARDER>
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09/28/2012 11:45 AMPosted by Ninjablaze
Jp has no value


The value is it can help you do better in said heroics until you get the pieces to replace them.


LFR is a major draw for players.

Needing every single loot piece to be 463 is frankly retarted.

This means tanks/healers are going to find the quickest gear solution and run it mindlessly no matter how miserable this makes other players.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8185
09/28/2012 11:47 AMPosted by Sarosha
What we are going to get this expansion is the return of the tank/healer bail

Already happening. I have no intention of staying to finish a dungeon when I only need 1 piece of loot off the first boss.. Rather just leave and go do dailies and accomplish other things (no time lost) while my deserter buff is active.
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09/28/2012 11:50 AMPosted by Misery
What we are going to get this expansion is the return of the tank/healer bail

Already happening. I have no intention of staying to finish a dungeon when I only need 1 piece of loot off the first boss.. Rather just leave and go do dailies and accomplish other things (no time lost) while my deserter buff is active.


Its BAD GAME DESIGN 101.

Everyone knows players will always make other players miserable before making themselves miserable.
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90 Draenei Hunter
13795
09/28/2012 11:54 AMPosted by Sarosha

Already happening. I have no intention of staying to finish a dungeon when I only need 1 piece of loot off the first boss.. Rather just leave and go do dailies and accomplish other things (no time lost) while my deserter buff is active.


Its BAD GAME DESIGN 101.

Everyone knows players will always make other players miserable before making themselves miserable.


Is there a solution to it besides smart loot? If the item does drop what would stop the healer from leaving anyway? I don't think you could hold all loot until the end because of disconnects that would be too frustrating or gameable.

When I first read your reply I fully agreed with you, but then I tried to think of solutions and I couldn't come up with any that seemed reasonable. The goal is to keep players returning to the instance enough times to keep the roles staffed without frustrating players. I have to assume that after this many dungeon tier releases Blizzard hasn't found a better alternative.

Perhaps, though, the lack of worthwhile JP loot will prove insufficient incentive for players to complete dungeon runs and Blizzard will need to institute better rewards for staying till the end.
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90 Dwarf Death Knight
17665
Loot needs to stay like it has for over 7 years, every "solution" just makes a simple solution more complicated, and people still find flaws, because loot HAS to have an RNG factor to stop the "timetable to quit"
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90 Draenei Hunter
13795
09/28/2012 02:01 PMPosted by Postonforums
Loot needs to stay like it has for over 7 years, every "solution" just makes a simple solution more complicated, and people still find flaws, because loot HAS to have an RNG factor to stop the "timetable to quit"


I have to agree. I've always look at instances as glorified target dummies rather than onerous one-armed bandits.
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THe easiest fix would be to allow entry into lfr at 458 or so.

So you dont need to have every single piece heroic.

You cant fix human nature, but you dont have to try so hard to encourage bad behavior.

Also Jp might have been better off at 463.

The system was clearly designed to have valor upgrades working at launch and was just pulled at the last minute.
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Its BAD GAME DESIGN 101.

Everyone knows players will always make other players miserable before making themselves miserable.


Is there a solution to it besides smart loot? If the item does drop what would stop the healer from leaving anyway? I don't think you could hold all loot until the end because of disconnects that would be too frustrating or gameable.

When I first read your reply I fully agreed with you, but then I tried to think of solutions and I couldn't come up with any that seemed reasonable. The goal is to keep players returning to the instance enough times to keep the roles staffed without frustrating players. I have to assume that after this many dungeon tier releases Blizzard hasn't found a better alternative.

Perhaps, though, the lack of worthwhile JP loot will prove insufficient incentive for players to complete dungeon runs and Blizzard will need to institute better rewards for staying till the end.


you get valor at the end, but its faster and easier for tanks and healers to bail after the first or possibly second boss an requeue if you are only looking for 1 or 2 pieces.

The major cause of this issue is going to be trying to get the last 3-4 pieces of gear to get into LFR.
Edited by Sarosha on 9/28/2012 3:03 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8185
09/28/2012 02:01 PMPosted by Postonforums
Loot needs to stay like it has for over 7 years, every "solution" just makes a simple solution more complicated, and people still find flaws, because loot HAS to have an RNG factor to stop the "timetable to quit"

Well it compiles and becomes worse when you cannot specific queue for a dungeon more than once a day. You can random a dungeon you don't even need... So I just do the first boss and leave, and then requeue random until I get what I am looking for.

Loot staying how it is for 7 years is an okay argument, but everything else in the game has just changed so why can't loot? Loot can stay an RNG factor - but you can swag the %'s of the RNG based on what your group is at least.

Take a look at "random battlegrounds". You can veto two maps. It's still random battlegrounds.
Edited by Misery on 9/28/2012 4:42 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Priest
0
09/28/2012 10:31 AMPosted by Misery
If anything, give an option to veto 1*Boss# items per run - disallowing those items to drop.


How do you decide what an acceptable number is?

It's a bit easier for BGs (mainly because they copied it from SC2), since it's a lot less complicated.

would you take a nerf to drop %s if they did this, to keep droprates ~ neutral?
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
10960
09/28/2012 11:23 AMPosted by Misery
lol, I realize this. Guess you do not realize what I am saying in terms of a time management solution for some players.


No, I realize far more than you have even considered. Fortunately for you the answer is quite simple. Tough. Sucks to be you. Deal with it.

Players don't need a time management solution. Some players will have the correct combination of time and luck to get all the gear they want, others won't.

There are currently many people who do have the time and are willing to devote it to running the dungeons over until they get what they want. If any system is put in place to reduce the time required or put a cap on it then;

1. People who are currently spending the time required have less to do
2. There will still be people who don't accomplish all that they would like to due to time constraints.

Your main argument was that the increase in world required activity dictated the increased rate of gear acquisition via heroic dungeons. This argument is flawed. The increased world required activity was put in place because people did not have enough to do and were becoming bored.

Decreasing time required is not a solution. It was, in fact, the problem.
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