Admiral Rogers was correct

90 Human Warlock
7420
This is an excellent thread, thanks for the read. It has been interesting to level as Alliance through MoP. Seems that the humans at least are starting to realise that to win against an orc you have to fight like an orc.
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100 Human Priest
5980
09/28/2012 02:24 AMPosted by Chise
think the concept is even older than that. A high ranking prisoner was always worth more alive than dead. You could ransom him off. The rank and file grunt though...


Oh, absolutely, but my post was regarding the rank and file. Even the idea of clemency for such individuals is older, but it always helps to give a concrete example to help defuse the idea that the very concept of not slaughtering your low-ranking prisoners is some modern invention.
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100 Blood Elf Death Knight
12205
Even I say it was the best tactical thing to do. War is ugly thing. Its not some G.I. JOE battle were nobody dies and the losers get to go home.

Despite all that, Its still not going to stop me from fantasizing how much I would enjoy mutilating Rogers and shoving her head up Taylor's *@&. =)
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85 Troll Warrior
5535
09/28/2012 05:41 AMPosted by Magdaleine
Pretty sure Varian led an offensive against the Undercity.


And Admiral Taylors.

I don't know why no one seems to love this guy, but me.

Rogers is like a female Garithos. Ruthless, badass, and unforgiving. What does she tell Taylor to do when things get real? Improvise. What does Taylor do? Improvises.

He doesn't, ye know, immediately sell his soul to demons because he might have to die in a war. So, like I said earlier. Admiral Taylor is everything awesome that Kael'thas failed to be.
Edited by Frostytroll on 9/28/2012 6:08 AM PDT
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100 Pandaren Shaman
13760
This one Night Elf doesn't speak on the whole of the Alliance, or on what is right and wrong. This one guy regretted his allies actions, and given the nature of orcs, they probably wouldn't have surrendered. Admiral Rogers was correct, and was probably right, but that doesn't change the fact that they were slaughtering those who were unarmed and barely keeping themselves alive.


Rogers is like a female Garithos. Ruthless, badass, and unforgiving.



Rogers would never ally with the Forsaken.
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100 Pandaren Shaman
13760
09/28/2012 07:31 AMPosted by Magdaleine
Rogers would never ally with the Forsaken.


Not now. No, she wouldn't.

Garithos had to learn that lesson.


Garithos allied with an 'evil' race. By his own justice with the blood elves, his death was deserved. By comparison, I wouldn't see Rogers allying with the Mogu to defeat the Horde.
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100 Pandaren Shaman
13760
09/28/2012 07:35 AMPosted by Magdaleine
Garithos allied with an 'evil' race. By his own justice with the blood elves, his death was deserved. By comparison, I wouldn't see Rogers allying with the Mogu to defeat the Horde.


The Forsaken hadn't proven themselves to be evil yet. Not until they betrayed him.


Lady Vashj's naga hadn't proven themselves evil, either. Yet Garithos had no problem sentencing the blood elves to death. Garithos was a gigantic hypocrite.
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85 Troll Warrior
5535
Further, Garithos didn't have anyone higher than himself in the chain of command ordering him not to.

The naga were servants of the demonlord Illidan. The Forsaken were new players in the game.
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90 Pandaren Warrior
10695
I don't agree.
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100 Human Paladin
14680
Rogers is like a female Garithos. Ruthless, badass, and unforgiving. What does she tell Taylor to do when things get real? Improvise. What does Taylor do? Improvises.

He doesn't, ye know, immediately sell his soul to demons because he might have to die in a war. So, like I said earlier. Admiral Taylor is everything awesome that Kael'thas failed to be.


That -is- pretty awesome. Though, not dissing Garithos, but I think Admiral Rogers is a few steps above him in competency. She even starts diplomacy with the Pandaren right after carrier-stomping two Horde bases and encourages Taylor to do the same while improvising. She was also less begrudging about bailing on them, a 'I have my orders, so do you' sort of thing.

Garithos was crass, but right. Rogers is blunt, but does everything she can within her power to ensure the success of her subordinates. If she were running the show back in Lordaeron? She'd probably have integrated Kael's forces in a way to make him easier to control. Garithos' prejudices were justified, and his actions correct, but they did blind him somewhat.
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100 Goblin Shaman
14245
Stupid alliance, Im glad we bombed your lame town. We should bring Deathwing back to finish your capital as well.
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85 Troll Warrior
5535
09/28/2012 07:54 AMPosted by Vesran
That -is- pretty awesome. Though, not dissing Garithos, but I think Admiral Rogers is a few steps above him in competency.


I don't want this to devolve into an argument either, but you don't need to clarify that you're not dissing Garithos, it's fine. Admiral Rogers is supposed to be liked so I am not surprised (edit added) --> and I expect people to like her whereas I don't expect people to like Garithos. It has to do with perspective given and author's intentions and such. <--

But the fact is that Admiral Rogers defeated a conventional enemy with superior forces at her command.

Garithos pushed back the Burning Legion all across western Lordaeron with the survivors of an apocalypse.

Edit: Admiral Rogers hasn't demonstrated any qualities that make her better, but honestly I don't like fighting over which of several awesome characters I like better.
Edited by Frostytroll on 10/1/2012 1:32 PM PDT
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85 Human Death Knight
2895
I have no problem with the "it was tactically correct" argument, and there's a strong case to be made that it was entirely "legal." I do think it's misguided, however, to argue that "it's ok because the Orcs would do the same to us." The conduct/misconduct of the enemy doesn't permit or excuse the same conduct for one's own forces. The principles of the Alliance exist independently of those of the Horde.

In short..."What would Uther, do?"
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85 Troll Warrior
5535
The conduct/misconduct of the enemy doesn't permit or excuse the same conduct for one's own forces. The principles of the Alliance exist independently of those of the Horde.


I agree with this sentiment. However, the Alliance's honor extends to the innocent or the worthy [added in edit] -> and I would argue similarly in general for all codes of conduct. Which is why in real life since we are all humans I wouldn't argue for butchering people. But if say Martians or something tried to destroy Earth I wouldn't say a damn thing about treating them kindly. <-

If an Alliance hunter wants to kill a lion and sets a trap for it, he doesn't not kill it after the lion is stuck in the trap because it's a beast that he's trying to kill.

09/28/2012 08:28 AMPosted by Æticus
In short..."What would Uther, do?"


Uther would die because he didn't have it in him to do what needed to be done.

The real question: what would Daelin do?
Edited by Frostytroll on 9/28/2012 8:51 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Hunter
7995
Just started going through Jade Forest today for the first time, and all I have to say: "Gun them down."
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90 Human Paladin
11695
The real question: what would Saidan do?
Edited by Karob on 9/28/2012 9:10 AM PDT
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