Admiral Rogers was correct

90 Human Warlock
12365
09/28/2012 04:17 PMPosted by Danyl
So then blame Darion too. And Dalaran. Regardless of how you or I feel, she hasn't crossed a line yet. As long as she doesn't she gets to do whatever she wants.
What line hasn't Sylvanas crossed?


The line that makes neutrals want her dead?

Btw, half-joking.
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90 Human Paladin
11695
There is no "Line".

Tirion's a coward, a traitor, and a horrible father who cares more about his neutrality than innocent people dying.
Edited by Karob on 9/28/2012 4:25 PM PDT
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90 Human Warlock
12365
There is no "Line".

Tirion's a coward, a traitor, and a horrible father who cares more about his neutrality than innocent people dying.


So he's like every neutral ever?
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85 Pandaren Rogue
7370
There is no "Line".

Tirion's a coward, a traitor, and a horrible father who cares more about his neutrality than innocent people dying.


It's likely because he counts some Forsaken among his number and doesn't want to outright attack the Horde (also in number in the Argents).

And you're kidding yourself if you think the Horde wouldn't come to defend against the Argent Crusade. Because the Forsaken hold a heck of a lot of land that Garrosh or whoever shall be replacing him probably won't want to lose.
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90 Human Paladin
11695
There is no "Line".

Tirion's a coward, a traitor, and a horrible father who cares more about his neutrality than innocent people dying.


So he's like every neutral ever?
Yes.
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90 Human Warlock
12365
09/28/2012 04:29 PMPosted by Branshei
And you're kidding yourself if you think the Horde wouldn't come to defend against the Argent Crusade. Because the Forsaken hold a heck of a lot of land that Garrosh or whoever shall be replacing him probably won't want to lose.


Ironically, Sylvanas pretty much admits that if the Alliance commits to taking Lordaeron, she won't stand a chance. That's including the Blood Elves.
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90 Human Warlock
12365


So he's like every neutral ever?
Yes.


So then blame all the other neutrals. They are all equally bad by that logic.
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90 Human Paladin
11695

Yes.


So then blame all the other neutrals. They are all equally bad by that logic.
Except for Dalaran never claimed to be "A force for good", "The Silver Hand", and doesn't have one of the most powerful weapons in existence.

The Cenarion Circle isn't a war organization and hasn't ever claimed to be.

Brotherhood of the Light's, sadly, Alliance-aligned.

The Argent Dawn barely exists outside of the Brotherhood.

The Earthen Ring is basically the Cenarion Circle for shamans.
Edited by Karob on 9/28/2012 4:38 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
TBI
6580


So he's like every neutral ever?
Yes.


Hes like Switzerland personified, then?
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85 Troll Warrior
5535
Hey guys, the Argents are neutral so fighting the Lich King was wrong because that means they took a side.
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100 Human Paladin
14640
09/28/2012 03:27 PMPosted by Karob
No, he didn't. Taelan was a better man than Tirion ever will be, Tirion ruined him.


For so long, I have been a puppet of the Grand Crusader. What reason was there to fight against what the Scarlet Crusade had become? It has been decades, yet the memories of my father; those precious memories, they are what have kept me alive.

I have dreams, stranger. In these dreams my father is with me. He stands proudly at my side as I am inducted into the Order. We battle legion of Scourge, side by side. We bring honor to the Alliance, to Lordaeron.

I want not to dream anymore.


That's Taelan. After he dies, this is Tirion's parting line to you in the quest.

May we meet again, in better times, and reminisce of days long past... battles hard fought... dreams redeemed.


Taelan's dreams weren't redeemed at Tirion's hand. In Cataclysm, Fordring had returned to Lordaeron victorious. He had all the momentum, the greatest threat the world had ever seen until Deathwing, and even then possibly more dangerous, and he'd been felled personally by Fordring's hand. He has the Ashbringer, he has the respect of the world, and he did nothing.

The choice came to him. The Forsaken lashed out, they acted without the honor Taelan wanted to bring back to Lordaeron, and Tirion stayed his hand. There's nothing else to say about him.
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100 Draenei Warrior
10735
09/28/2012 04:29 PMPosted by Branshei
It's likely because he counts some Forsaken among his number


Even THOSE Forsaken don't agree with the Banshee Queen.

Why do you think they're part of the Argents?
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I feel that Tirion not attacking the Forsaken is a gameplay reason rather than a lore one. Unless they have a succesor for Sylvanas and don't eliminate the Forsaken, I don't see it being possible in the MMO's format.

Basically, removing the Forsaken as a race would require them to make a new one, and people would most likely be pissed.
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90 Worgen Druid
10460
I feel that Tirion not attacking the Forsaken is a gameplay reason rather than a lore one. Unless they have a succesor for Sylvanas and don't eliminate the Forsaken, I don't see it being possible in the MMO's format.

Basically, removing the Forsaken as a race would require them to make a new one, and people would most likely be pissed.


Tirion's attack would not need to kill off all the forsaken, or even be successful.
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90 Human Warlock
12365
09/28/2012 07:31 PMPosted by Finaj
Basically, removing the Forsaken as a race would require them to make a new one, and people would most likely be pissed.


You know what I love about the Forsaken plot armor? Everyone has a reason to not like the Forsaken. Not even the Forsaken like the Forsaken. Even Sylvanas has admitted that if the Alliance ever focused on retaking the Eastern Kingdoms, they won't stand a chance. Neither will the Blood Elves.

So literally, the only thing keeping the Forsaken protected is plot armor. Not their skill, not their plans, probably not even the aid that they get. It's the fact that everyone else is either too busy or too ignorant to care.
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I feel that Tirion not attacking the Forsaken is a gameplay reason rather than a lore one. Unless they have a succesor for Sylvanas and don't eliminate the Forsaken, I don't see it being possible in the MMO's format.

Basically, removing the Forsaken as a race would require them to make a new one, and people would most likely be pissed.


Tirion's attack would not need to kill off all the forsaken, or even be successful.


True, but I feel it would need to fit the expansion at hand in order to be a content patch. I feel before or after the Siege of Orgrimmar would work well.
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90 Worgen Druid
10460


Tirion's attack would not need to kill off all the forsaken, or even be successful.


True, but I feel it would need to fit the expansion at hand in order to be a content patch. I feel before or after the Siege of Orgrimmar would work well.


I feel they could just say very easily and briefly: "The forsaken and Argent Crusade are now at war."

It leaves a lot of gaps, but you could probably expand that into some lore, a Cdev answer or just a 'release' of new lore. Would take less than an hour.
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85 Troll Warrior
5535
Yeah. I agree with Ferenold.

Wait for it... the Horde and the Alliance are at war. Neither have been destroyed or removed from the game.
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I'm fine with a CDev answer, but they would have to represent it in-game in some shape or form. It seems to significant not to be shown in-game.
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