Ret damage (and its ability to dps at range)

90 Orc Warlock
9730
So I fight a ret paladin on my warlock, he was 90 and I was 89. I checked armory and my gear was actually a good bit better than his. He never once got in range to autoattack me or use crusader/TV, but he still managed to kill me in about 6-8 seconds using exclusively ranged abilities.

Annihilated my twilight ward like I didnt even put it up, the hits for 80k+ kept rolling in. Ranged abilities hitting for 80k from a melee class that wears plate and can heal.

I know he blew every cooldown he had, and probably some he didn't, but the fact he was able to put up so much dps so quickly, using purely ranged abilities, is without question, overpowered and imbalanced.

How do other ret paladins feel about their damage in pvp currently?
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72 Orc Rogue
9730
Not sure if serious.
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90 Orc Warlock
9730
09/28/2012 01:03 PMPosted by Chokehold
Not sure if serious.


Why wouldnt this be serious? I was able to not be in melee range of a paladin at any point while fighting him, and still got killed in mere seconds. His only advantage was his level, so honestly my better gear versus his higher level kinda evened things out.
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86 Draenei Paladin
6200
Not sure if serious.


Why wouldnt this be serious? I was able to not be in melee range of a paladin at any point while fighting him, and still got killed in mere seconds. His only advantage was his level, so honestly my better gear versus his higher level kinda evened things out.


Chances are you got killed by Harsh Words, (glyphed word of glory)

Holy Avenger and 30% increased damage on exo/judgement (3 holy power per attack)

So each time he hit you with either judgement or an exorsism he could also hit you with a 3hp harsh word.
Edited by Vexi on 9/28/2012 1:14 PM PDT
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90 Orc Warlock
9730
well I do appreciate you taking your time to explain the abilities to me my question still stands

doesnt this seem a bit too strong for a melee class? or is ret not a melee class anymore?
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86 Draenei Paladin
6200
well I do appreciate you taking your time to explain the abilities to me my question still stands

doesnt this seem a bit too strong for a melee class? or is ret not a melee class anymore?


It's a niche combat ability for rets that lasts for all of 15 seconds with a 2 minute cool down.

If you see a paladin bust out the "Lightbringer" sword model, he's got Holy Avenger active.
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97 Blood Elf Paladin
17760
Were you using any PVP gear? If you are fighting in the PVE pandaria gear, and hes fighting in the PVP cata gear chances are his gear is significantly better for PVP than your gear regardless of ilvl, as it has all the PVE stats of a piece its Ilvl as well as potentially double the amount of secondary stats for the purposes of PVP if it has both PVP stats on it. Unlike previous expansions the shear escalation in stats on the questing items doesn't really overtake the old PVP items due to the changes in how a PVP items stat budget works now.

Also Rets are now pretty much designed to be a mid range fighter in PVP, which is the route they decided to go rather than give them a gap closer. The fact that they are able to fight you at mid range is intended.
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100 Human Paladin
10320
Must had been a GM.
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91 Dwarf Paladin
0
well I do appreciate you taking your time to explain the abilities to me my question still stands

doesnt this seem a bit too strong for a melee class? or is ret not a melee class anymore?


No. We have an immense build up at melee to whip out the good damage. Our ranged is not that good at all and our healing is pretty pitiful without Self-less healer and even then.. Not what it used to be.

That said assuming you kept him at range like you said it means all his HoPo was built off Exo and Judgement. He would have needed Inq too. Which means he either had HA or it took significantly longer than 6-9 seconds as this is what would be required just to get Inq up and maybe 1~2 additional HoPo if he isn't lucky with Divine Purpose.

In short, you're exaggerating, basing balance on duels, and weren't appropriate gear to decide whats OP or not in PvP.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
20945
At 90, he had access to the 90 talents. All of them are big damage, and all of them are ranged. It's not that hard to kill people at range.
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90 Human Paladin
9970
09/28/2012 01:59 PMPosted by Aecheon
or is ret not a melee class anymore?

Mostly this. Being out of melee range means you avoid autoattacks and Crusader Strike. Exorcism, Judgement, Hammer of Wrath, WoG w/Harsh Words glyph, and the level 90 talents are all ranged. (Templar's Verdict is melee, but Harsh Words uses the same resource and deals comparable damage, so being out of TV range doesn't help you much.)

We're not quite casters, and we still prefer to be in melee if possible, but we are also a respectable threat at range.
Edited by Ravicana on 9/28/2012 6:25 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
9970
wait, holy avenger does what

*checks in game*

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT

*dies from awesomeness*
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1 Human Rogue
0
Did you happen to be in that place with all the mounds of wheat? While questing there I was getting 3-shot by a frost DK endlessly and couldn't understand why. He was running around very fast and owning everyone.

I left that hub soon after and just assumed he was using hacks.

When I went back to finish the quests once I turned 90, I discovered that the mobs there give a stacking buff to attack and movement speed, as well as damage. It's possible he could have been stacking this buff just like the DK and owning people with ranged attacks.
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100 Human Paladin
13775
09/28/2012 06:24 PMPosted by Ravicana
Templar's Verdict is melee, but Harsh Words uses the same resource and deals comparable damage


It doesn't do comparable damage. Harsh Words does significantly less due to it not doing any Hand of Light damage.

It's still a worthy glyph as a substitution when TV can't be used, but it's not comparable damage to Templar's Verdict.
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100 Human Paladin
20355
PvP isn't balanced around 1v1.

(Man, I hate that response, but I had to say it. I've heard it used SO many times as an excuse to keep Retribution from being competitive, so it's therapeutic to use it now.)
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
14375
09/29/2012 05:52 AMPosted by Bravehearth
Templar's Verdict is melee, but Harsh Words uses the same resource and deals comparable damage


It doesn't do comparable damage. Harsh Words does significantly less due to it not doing any Hand of Light damage.

It's still a worthy glyph as a substitution when TV can't be used, but it's not comparable damage to Templar's Verdict.


Yeah the total damage of Templar's Verdict its higher than the glyph of Harsh Words but Templar's Verdict its Physical damage plus the mastery damage so it gets reduced by armor and the glyph its pure Holy damage which makes them comparable.
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90 Tauren Paladin
8220
09/29/2012 09:31 AMPosted by Angelofchaos
Yeah the total damage of Templar's Verdict its higher than the glyph of Harsh Words but Templar's Verdict its Physical damage plus the mastery damage so it gets reduced by armor and the glyph its pure Holy damage which makes them comparable.

Only on high-armor targets (and even then, I'm pretty sure it takes a ridiculous amount of armor to make Harsh Word outdo TV in total damage).
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
14375
09/29/2012 10:04 AMPosted by Keten
Yeah the total damage of Templar's Verdict its higher than the glyph of Harsh Words but Templar's Verdict its Physical damage plus the mastery damage so it gets reduced by armor and the glyph its pure Holy damage which makes them comparable.

Only on high-armor targets (and even then, I'm pretty sure it takes a ridiculous amount of armor to make Harsh Word outdo TV in total damage).


Oh no i didnt mean that Harsh Words will do more damage thats very unlikely i said "comparable" damage and really harsh words its not meant to replace TV but its to be a range attack when hitting with TV its not possible.
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