Why does BS require 2 other professions?

85 Goblin Death Knight
10415
Have you compared the patterns to your precious 3 armor crafting professions or are you just working off of the complaint that blacksmiths require 3 professions to be self-sufficient in a multi-player game?

Pretty sure that tailoring is throttled by a daily cloth cooldown. It is also possible that LW and tailoring both require a larger investment of SoH or some other means of slowing down the crafting of epics, while BS can simply buy all of the trillium bars and living steel off of the AH.
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1 Gnome Priest
0
10/01/2012 09:20 AMPosted by Positron
Tailoring does indeed have a cd and the cloth is bop.


Well alchemy has a similar living steel cooldown, and BS patterns also require harmonys. Tailoring doesn't require any harmonys, just cloth. However, as a consequence of that, I'd expect tailoring items not to hold their value well at all.

It's harder for tailors to craft on-demand, though. It would require 15 harmonys just for gloves for burst on-demand crafting due to the bop nature of the cloth. Tailoring has it super easy if you're patient, a lot less so if you want it immediately.
Edited by Mescyn on 10/1/2012 9:43 AM PDT
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94 Blood Elf Paladin
13000
Have you compared the patterns to your precious 3 armor crafting professions or are you just working off of the complaint that blacksmiths require 3 professions to be self-sufficient in a multi-player game?

Pretty sure that tailoring is throttled by a daily cloth cooldown. It is also possible that LW and tailoring both require a larger investment of SoH or some other means of slowing down the crafting of epics, while BS can simply buy all of the trillium bars and living steel off of the AH.


Yes I did compair them, you have not.

Tailoring T1 epics gloves and chest take 10 Imperial silk total. 10 days 400 cloth about 500g in mats.

http://www.wowhead.com/skill=197#recipes:0-16+1

Leatherworking T1 epic gloves and chest 5 mag hides and 14 MoH. This is just a matter of farming.

http://www.wowhead.com/skill=165#recipes:0-16+1

Blacksmith T1 epic gloces and chest 13 living steel and 16 MoH. Massive cost and the most farming.

http://www.wowhead.com/skill=164#recipes:0-16+1
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90 Gnome Priest
8910
Canti:
My tailor mage and leather working druid both have a much easier (and less expensive) time getting crafted T1 pre-raid gear. Why should plate have such a larger cost and harder time doing the same?

I actually had no feelings on the topic of this thread, never having leveled blacksmithing, but this post makes me think blacksmithing should be hard. Its products are made of metal. IRL blacksmithing would be way more time-consuming than tailoring.

Of course, to be fair, IRL a suit of armor would sell for much more than a robe....
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94 Blood Elf Paladin
13000
10/01/2012 10:10 AMPosted by Positron


Well alchemy has a similar living steel cooldown, and BS patterns also require harmonys. Tailoring doesn't require any harmonys, just cloth. However, as a consequence of that, I'd expect tailoring items not to hold their value well at all.

It's harder for tailors to craft on-demand, though. It would require 15 harmonys just for gloves for burst on-demand crafting due to the bop nature of the cloth. Tailoring has it super easy if you're patient, a lot less so if you want it immediately.


Yes transmutes doesn't have a cd, but as you realize yourself it is not bop. Alchemy also has specializations where you can proc multiples.

Tailoring does seem easier this xpac, but it wasn't the case before. A lot of people complained during wrath.

You also need imperial silk for spellthreads and the best bag.


Sure but as the person above mentioned you can quickly get 5-6 Imp silk using the same number of MoH needed by leatherworkers and blacksmiths.

Also beltbuckles need living steel and leather leg kits need mag hides.
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85 Goblin Death Knight
10415
Yes I did compair them, you have not.

Tailoring T1 epics gloves and chest take 10 Imperial silk total. 10 days 400 cloth about 500g in mats.

http://www.wowhead.com/skill=197#recipes:0-16+1

Leatherworking T1 epic gloves and chest 5 mag hides and 14 MoH. This is just a matter of farming.

http://www.wowhead.com/skill=165#recipes:0-16+1

Blacksmith T1 epic gloces and chest 13 living steel and 16 MoH. Massive cost and the most farming.

http://www.wowhead.com/skill=164#recipes:0-16+1

Its Spirit of Harmony (SoH) not Mote of Harmony (MoH).

From the look of it, Leatherworking (skinning) and Blacksmithing (alchemy) only have to rely on ONE profession each for the mats to create those pieces, not two.

Also, given that the tailor has to wait 10 days to make those two pieces (unless they can dig up 30 spirits of harmony...300 motes) while the blacksmith can essentially buy everything off of the AH in one day, I would say the BS has the advantage. Especially when you factor in that there is probably 1 miner for every BS but likely less then 1 skinner per 5 LW. Plus bots will eventually drop the price of ore but not leather.
Edited by Jozie on 10/1/2012 10:45 AM PDT
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94 Blood Elf Paladin
13000
Yes I did compair them, you have not.

Tailoring T1 epics gloves and chest take 10 Imperial silk total. 10 days 400 cloth about 500g in mats.

http://www.wowhead.com/skill=197#recipes:0-16+1

Leatherworking T1 epic gloves and chest 5 mag hides and 14 MoH. This is just a matter of farming.

http://www.wowhead.com/skill=165#recipes:0-16+1

Blacksmith T1 epic gloces and chest 13 living steel and 16 MoH. Massive cost and the most farming.

http://www.wowhead.com/skill=164#recipes:0-16+1

Its Spirit of Harmony (SoH) not Mote of Harmony (MoH).

From the look of it, Leatherworking (skinning) and Blacksmithing (alchemy) only have to rely on ONE profession each for the mats to create those pieces, not two.

Also, given that the tailor has to wait 10 days to make those two pieces (unless they can dig up 30 spirits of harmony...300 motes) while the blacksmith can essentially buy everything off of the AH in one day, I would say the BS has the advantage. Especially when you factor in that there is probably 1 miner for every BS but likely less then 1 skinner per 5 LW. Plus bots will eventually drop the price of ore but not leather.


Blacksmith need mining and alch. Sure you can buy it for thousands of gold, you can also just buy the armors if this is about buying stuff.

P.S. Every leather worker I know is also a skinner.
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94 Blood Elf Paladin
13000
You can use harmony for living steel as well and you can proc.

Magnificent hide doesn't have a cd.


Yes, but the compairison was that blacksmithing gloves and chest takes 16 SoH regardless of what else is needed. You can use the same amount of spirits + daily CD and have 6 Imp silk and 1 extra SoH.
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85 Goblin Death Knight
10415
Blacksmith need mining and alch. Sure you can buy it for thousands of gold, you can also just buy the armors if this is about buying stuff.

P.S. Every leather worker I know is also a skinner.

Blacksmiths do not need mining or alchemy, they only need bars, which can be bought off of the AH. Throw enough gold at the problem, you could have had both pieces crafted as a BS the first day or two of the expansion. Tailors on the other hand still need at least another day or two to craft the equivalent gear unless they got REALLY luck on mote drops.

My main is an enchanter / leatherworker, dropped skinning for herbalism in BC, then dropped herbalism for enchanting in WotLK. Gathering professions are a waste of time unless you are leveling (though I wouldn't mind a gatherer / crafter combo with all the exploring needed in Mists).
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100 Goblin Warrior
10310
The trades have always been interconnected. This encourages us to engage further in the economy and have crafting alts.

It isn't really a hinderance to us. If we have to buy additional materials for something we make, cost goes up.


It doesn't encourage me to do anything of the sort. I'm not going to buy 11.2k worth of living steel just to make one chest piece.
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94 Blood Elf Paladin
13000
Blacksmith need mining and alch. Sure you can buy it for thousands of gold, you can also just buy the armors if this is about buying stuff.

P.S. Every leather worker I know is also a skinner.

Blacksmiths do not need mining or alchemy, they only need bars, which can be bought off of the AH. Throw enough gold at the problem, you could have had both pieces crafted as a BS the first day or two of the expansion. Tailors on the other hand still need at least another day or two to craft the equivalent gear unless they got REALLY luck on mote drops.

My main is an enchanter / leatherworker, dropped skinning for herbalism in BC, then dropped herbalism for enchanting in WotLK. Gathering professions are a waste of time unless you are leveling (though I wouldn't mind a gatherer / crafter combo with all the exploring needed in Mists).


Having multiple toons to cover all your professions doesn change that Tailoring doesn not need any other profession, LW only needs skinning, and BS needs mining AND alch. Add that to alchs need herbalism and there would be an argument of 3 extra professions needed. Also the entire point of tailors having a 1 day CD is voided by LW and BS needing BoP SoH. Tailors use their CD then get on with their life, while LW and BS need to farm for the SoH.
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85 Goblin Death Knight
10415
Having multiple toons to cover all your professions doesn change that Tailoring doesn not need any other profession, LW only needs skinning, and BS needs mining AND alch. Add that to alchs need herbalism and there would be an argument of 3 extra professions needed. Also the entire point of tailors having a 1 day CD is voided by LW and BS needing BoP SoH. Tailors use their CD then get on with their life, while LW and BS need to farm for the SoH.

I think I figured out your problem, you are under the mistaken impression that you need a second profession to use crafting professions. Do you really think Ford or Chrysler mine and smelt their own steel to manufacture cars? No, they buy from the cheapest supplier they can find, because it is a waste of their time and money to play in the dirt.

Wow is the same way. If you want to make gold with your professions, then you need to be able to buy the materials off of the AH, craft the item, and sell it for more then the cost of materials. Anything you farm yourself as a miner should be sold on the AH after you buy out everything thats cheaper for your crafting profession.
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94 Blood Elf Paladin
13000
10/05/2012 12:42 PMPosted by Jozie
Having multiple toons to cover all your professions doesn change that Tailoring doesn not need any other profession, LW only needs skinning, and BS needs mining AND alch. Add that to alchs need herbalism and there would be an argument of 3 extra professions needed. Also the entire point of tailors having a 1 day CD is voided by LW and BS needing BoP SoH. Tailors use their CD then get on with their life, while LW and BS need to farm for the SoH.

I think I figured out your problem, you are under the mistaken impression that you need a second profession to use crafting professions. Do you really think Ford or Chrysler mine and smelt their own steel to manufacture cars? No, they buy from the cheapest supplier they can find, because it is a waste of their time and money to play in the dirt.
Wow is the same way. If you want to make gold with your professions, then you need to be able to buy the materials off of the AH, craft the item, and sell it for more then the cost of materials. Anything you farm yourself as a miner should be sold on the AH after you buy out everything thats cheaper for your crafting profession.


I have already said this is not about making gold or about my professions. BS requires mining and alch does it not? Where does ore come from? Where does Living steel come from? LW requires skinning does it not? Tailoring requires nothing else.

P.S. Trying to use RL examples in a game is fail. In this game all requirments are put there by blizzard and should be about equal in time, money, and effort for the same results. That i called "balance".
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85 Goblin Death Knight
10415
I have already said this is not about making gold or about my professions. BS requires mining and alch does it not? Where does ore come from? Where does Living steel come from? LW requires skinning does it not? Tailoring requires nothing else.

P.S. Trying to use RL examples in a game is fail. In this game all requirments are put there by blizzard and should be about equal in time, money, and effort for the same results. That i called "balance".

Fine, its not about gold, its about resources, and Blizzard attempts to balance the professions around ALL of the required resources, not just the 1-2 you choose to focus on.

Blacksmithing requires mining and alchemy. Mining is and has been the single most prolific gathering profession in the game for years now. Tons of miners making ore and therefore bars, dirt cheap. Epic gem transmutes in WotLK created a surplus of alchemists.

Leatherworking requires skinning, the least taken gathering profession making leather a "rare" commodity. Yes, it should probably require additional materials, perhaps pigments or inks from inscription, maybe dust from enchanting.

Tailoring...actually requires you to farm mobs. True, it doesn't need a second profession to supply cloth, but it isn't like you can just go to the AH and get all the cloth you want because the drop rate is balanced around cloth scavenging, which only tailors can do. So after a tailor invest all this time to get cloth, they then must invest daily cooldowns to convert it into a useful substance.

Blacksmithing uses gold as a resource while tailoring requires an investment of time. But both sides are balanced when you look at the forest instead of the half dozen trees visible at the edge.
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94 Blood Elf Paladin
13000
I have already said this is not about making gold or about my professions. BS requires mining and alch does it not? Where does ore come from? Where does Living steel come from? LW requires skinning does it not? Tailoring requires nothing else.

P.S. Trying to use RL examples in a game is fail. In this game all requirments are put there by blizzard and should be about equal in time, money, and effort for the same results. That i called "balance".

Fine, its not about gold, its about resources, and Blizzard attempts to balance the professions around ALL of the required resources, not just the 1-2 you choose to focus on.

Blacksmithing requires mining and alchemy. Mining is and has been the single most prolific gathering profession in the game for years now. Tons of miners making ore and therefore bars, dirt cheap. Epic gem transmutes in WotLK created a surplus of alchemists.

Leatherworking requires skinning, the least taken gathering profession making leather a "rare" commodity. Yes, it should probably require additional materials, perhaps pigments or inks from inscription, maybe dust from enchanting.

Tailoring...actually requires you to farm mobs. True, it doesn't need a second profession to supply cloth, but it isn't like you can just go to the AH and get all the cloth you want because the drop rate is balanced around cloth scavenging, which only tailors can do. So after a tailor invest all this time to get cloth, they then must invest daily cooldowns to convert it into a useful substance.

Blacksmithing uses gold as a resource while tailoring requires an investment of time. But both sides are balanced when you look at the forest instead of the half dozen trees visible at the edge.


You are seriously reaching if you think tailors have to farm for cloth. Everyone gets cloth regardless of their professions and tailors get far more. As far as balanced, you are saying that because fewer people chose to be skinners that miners that BS should have a far higher cost and a higher time requirment? Does that make sence?

A quick AH peak shows Windwool to be less then 1g each, ghost iron about 2g each (but need 2 per bar), and exotic leather 5g each, magnificent hides 200g each (the lowest is at 100g), and living steal bars at 2,500g each. Really all of your comments are null and void based on in game reality.

P.S. 16 SoH says "hi". The daily tailoring CD (that can be bypassed with their own SoH use) is nothing compaired to farming that.
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85 Goblin Death Knight
10415
You are seriously reaching if you think tailors have to farm for cloth. Everyone gets cloth regardless of their professions and tailors get far more. As far as balanced, you are saying that because fewer people chose to be skinners that miners that BS should have a far higher cost and a higher time requirment? Does that make sence?

I am looking at the two extremes...tailoring vs. blacksmithing. In reality, yes, leatherworking should require a few more mats, most just trying to come up with a reason why it doesn't.

A quick AH peak shows Windwool to be less then 1g each, ghost iron about 2g each (but need 2 per bar), and exotic leather 5g each, magnificent hides 200g each (the lowest is at 100g), and living steal bars at 2,500g each. Really all of your comments are null and void based on in game reality.

So because it is true 10 days into the launch of the new expansion it must be true for the whole expansion? Drop rates were buffed so that EVERYONE, not just the gold tycoons, could level their professions. People are already commenting that the drop rates were nerfed back down to Cata...if not Northrend...levels.

Oh, FYI, cloth might be selling for 1g compared to 2g for ghost iron, but that will likely increase to 3+ gold now that the drop rate has been adjusted. And while it does take 2 ore to make a 4g bar, it takes 5 cloth putting the equivelant mat price closer to 15g for tailors.

P.S. 16 SoH says "hi". The daily tailoring CD (that can be bypassed with their own SoH use) is nothing compaired to farming that.

Already covered that in another thread. Assuming an average of 3 SoH a day, BS or tailor doesn't matter, still takes them each 5 days to complete their two 476 epics.
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