Rogue PvE in 5.1.0 (All Specializations)

94 Blood Elf Rogue
0
10/01/2012 07:46 AMPosted by Rfeann
Where did you find the time for all this?

Ideas ferment in the depths of my brain until I'm ready and then they all spill out at once.

It's a carefully honed application of procrastination. :3

10/01/2012 07:46 AMPosted by Rfeann
Aeriwen gets all the credit for answering leveling questions, btw, not me. I address a few really basic ones in my sticky, but mostly it's an across-the-board FAQ that tries to avoid going too far into specifics. The other stickies are for that.

Hm... my bad. I'll probably exchange your names in the intro and it should work out fine.

10/02/2012 05:51 AMPosted by Cwitters
so. did you pull those stat weights off EJ? or come up with them yourself?

They're from EJ, from the three spec guides. Pathal derived them from the updated ShadowCraft engine.

Great guide, but one question

So why is only the Crit cloak enchant listed? The hit enchant is the same amount (180), and since for combat for example you reforge crit to hit anyways why not just.... use the hit enchant? At worst you just don't reforge crit to hit elsewhere and leave it as crit and in better cases maybe you don't have to reforge haste or mastery to hit.

I defaulted to it for the same reason we didn't use hit enchants in Cataclysm, but since crit really is much weaker than haste/mastery which were the enchant tradeoffs before, this is a fair point.

I'll poke around and put the hit enchant up in a few minutes.

Enchant Weapon - Windsong.
Enchant Weapon - Elemental Force.

What's the better Enchant? I liek Windsong, But for Mut, Crit... really? I don't want that to proc!

I'm not sure either, unfortunately. I'll see if I can find anything saying either way.

When I looked before elemental force hadn't been tested enough to know how decent it was.

10/02/2012 10:32 AMPosted by Mirotic
Congrats on the guide Vere; glad you got it stickied so soon. : )

Thanks to Rfeann for that e-mail address. :)

10/01/2012 03:24 PMPosted by Woran
In the Assassination rotation section you mentioned doing 4-5 combo point envenoms. Correct me if I'm wrong, but with anticipation, shouldn't we always be aiming for 5cp envenoms?


With anticipation you should always be using 5 cp finishers for your envenom, as well as changing a few other things.

Anticipation probably deserves an entire section to itself, its kind of a big change.

I overlooked this since I pasted the mutilate part from the 5.0.4 post for use at 85 and forgot to fix it up.

I'll add anticipation sometime today, thanks for the catch. :)
Reply Quote
90 Goblin Rogue
11915
Posted by Cwitters
so. did you pull those stat weights off EJ? or come up with them yourself?

They're from EJ, from the three spec guides. Pathal derived them from the updated ShadowCraft engine.


ah. right. you might want to make a note then - at least for a while, those stat-weights are inaccurate. They're based on a BIS profile. In actual gear (we're looking at ilvl 450-480ish), agility far outweighs haste to the point where you don't want to be gemming haste over agility. (You want +160 agi in red, +60/160 in yellow).

I haven't simmed enough to know exactly how high it goes, it might extend well past ilvl480, but once you're in - or near - current tier BIS gear, that's when you'll see haste make such large jumps in value and be worth gemming over agi. Depending on what changes in the next patch (Or along the way), haste looks to be king in 5.1, but not for most of this tier.

Note: This is all in relation to combat only, I haven't run enough on the other 2 specs to see the differences. Also, while this was originally based on my own sim numbers, it's since been confirmed by independent sources.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Rogue
6980
This sure got stickied fast

Thanks, too!
Reply Quote
35 Draenei Priest
2125
This sure got stickied fast

Thanks, too!

CLOAKED!!! WE MISS YOU!!!

Come love us again!
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Rogue
11150
At the moment, Windsong may not even be a recommended alternate enchant for any spec, since the proc isn't working right.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6759366138
Reply Quote
94 Blood Elf Rogue
0
Might be a caster thing? I'm not having any trouble as melee, windsong had an 81.8% uptime last fight.
Reply Quote
90 Orc Rogue
0
10/03/2012 01:57 PMPosted by Verelyse
Might be a caster thing? I'm not having any trouble as melee, windsong had an 81.8% uptime last fight.

Ya after finally chanting my gear last night when I looked at my buffs I had one or two of the buffs up most of the time.
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Rogue
13175
Why is combat maintaing rupture? My napkin math has it well below eviscerate at even entry level attack powers, almost 11k less damage than eviscerate at 30k AP. Also as AP goes up the delta between eviscerate and rupture gets larger by almost 3000 damage per every 10k AP. This math was done assuming 5 cps, on a boss with an armor value of 24835 which is about 35% armor reduction. The numbers I calculated reflect about what I see for the most part on the dummies. Is my math bad?
Edited by Diminias on 10/4/2012 6:34 AM PDT
Reply Quote
94 Blood Elf Rogue
0
10/04/2012 05:36 AMPosted by Diminias
Why is combat maintaing rupture? My napkin math has it well below eviscerate at even entry level attack powers, almost 11k less damage than eviscerate at 30k AP. Also as AP goes up the delta between eviscerate and rupture gets larger by almost 3000 damage per every 10k AP. This math was done assuming 5 cps, on a boss with an armor value of 24835 which is about 35% armor reduction. The numbers I calculated reflect about what I see for the most part on the dummies. Is my math bad?

The difference is in the energy cost; rupture only costs 25 while eviscerate is 35.

I'm going by EJ on this right now, so I'm just taking their word for how it's working out. But rupture should be better DPE than eviscerate (leading to higher overall damage when you're not energy capping).

Soon we should have a fair number of parses to start dissecting to see if there's any inconsistencies.

But if [(rupture damage) ÷ 25] < [(eviscerate damage) ÷ 35] then rupture should be dropped.
Edited by Verelyse on 10/4/2012 1:37 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Human Rogue
7045
09/30/2012 12:06 PMPosted by Verelyse
Shallow Insight
Cant find it In my spell book. : /
Reply Quote
10 Goblin Rogue
10610
10/04/2012 04:21 PMPosted by Vyceversa
Cant find it In my spell book. : /


It's not a spell. It's a buff that will appear on your character when you're in combat.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=84654/bandits-guile

The first comment on that page shows you the buffs that you were referencing.
Edited by Sheevah on 10/4/2012 4:52 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Troll Rogue
13105
Is it worthwhile to tricks another dps or is the energy cost not worth it?
Reply Quote
94 Blood Elf Rogue
0
10/04/2012 05:00 PMPosted by Desukà
Is it worthwhile to tricks another dps or is the energy cost not worth it?

Trading tricks is still very much a good thing as long as you have a class available who can benefit from it.

Details: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6758626681?page=1#7
Reply Quote
90 Troll Rogue
13105
Oh, didn't notice that, thanks!

Why don't you want to tricks someone with Dark Intent on them, and if a class isn't on that list is it not too worthwhile to tricks them? Like an Arms Warrior or Ret Paladin because buffs don't stack?
Edited by Desukà on 10/4/2012 5:16 PM PDT
Reply Quote
94 Blood Elf Rogue
0
Why don't you want to tricks someone with Dark Intent on them, and if a class isn't on that list is it not too worthwhile to tricks them? Like an Arms Warrior or Ret Paladin because buffs don't stack?

Looks like dark intent was changed in 5.0, so I can take that bit out. But yes to the rest, as far as I'm aware. But it's possible things have changed for other classes as well that I'm not aware of.
Reply Quote
90 Orc Rogue
11765
Any info on the opening Combat rotation? Right now I'm using: SF RvS, SSx2, S&D, SS to low energy (moderate insight if possible), KS, SS to low energy, AR/SB, pushing Anticipation stacks to prevent energy capping or to get a higher BG where possible.

Something around that anyway. I'm keeping every S&D after the initial one rolling at 5CP, generally not using my first evis/rupture until halfway into Mod. Insight, and abusing Anticipation to not energy cap or clip S&D/Rupture (while below Deep Insight).
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Rogue
13175
The difference is in the energy cost; rupture only costs 25 while eviscerate is 35.

I'm going by EJ on this right now, so I'm just taking their word for how it's working out. But rupture should be better DPE than eviscerate (leading to higher overall damage when you're not energy capping).

Soon we should have a fair number of parses to start dissecting to see if there's any inconsistencies.

But if [(rupture damage) ÷ 25] < [(eviscerate damage) ÷ 35] then rupture should be dropped.[/quote]

10/04/2012 01:36 PMPosted by Verelyse
Why is combat maintaing rupture? My napkin math has it well below eviscerate at even entry level attack powers, almost 11k less damage than eviscerate at 30k AP. Also as AP goes up the delta between eviscerate and rupture gets larger by almost 3000 damage per every 10k AP. This math was done assuming 5 cps, on a boss with an armor value of 24835 which is about 35% armor reduction. The numbers I calculated reflect about what I see for the most part on the dummies. Is my math bad?

The difference is in the energy cost; rupture only costs 25 while eviscerate is 35.

I'm going by EJ on this right now, so I'm just taking their word for how it's working out. But rupture should be better DPE than eviscerate (leading to higher overall damage when you're not energy capping).

Soon we should have a fair number of parses to start dissecting to see if there's any inconsistencies.

But if [(rupture damage) ÷ 25] < [(eviscerate damage) ÷ 35] then rupture should be dropped.


I screwed up my math too it is much more competitive than I thought and obsevred. Thanks for the explanation.
Reply Quote
94 Blood Elf Rogue
0
Any info on the opening Combat rotation? Right now I'm using: SF RvS, SSx2, S&D, SS to low energy (moderate insight if possible), KS, SS to low energy, AR/SB, pushing Anticipation stacks to prevent energy capping or to get a higher BG where possible.

Something around that anyway. I'm keeping every S&D after the initial one rolling at 5CP, generally not using my first evis/rupture until halfway into Mod. Insight, and abusing Anticipation to not energy cap or clip S&D/Rupture (while below Deep Insight).

Besides not being entirely sure what SF stands for, that seems as good as anything I can think of.
Reply Quote
10 Goblin Rogue
10610
10/05/2012 12:39 AMPosted by Verelyse
Besides not being entirely sure what SF stands for, that seems as good as anything I can think of.


Shadow Focus?
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]