Ret Paladin PvP Feedback (Level 90)

90 Blood Elf Paladin
8980
So, granted the season hasn't started yet and there is no real PvP gear out there, this may just be a gear concern, but nevertheless I'll throw some info out there.

-Mobility is fine.
-Self healing is fine.
-Damage is BELOW Par
-Still to reliant on Cooldowns and Inquisition
-Utility is great.

Feel free to armory my toon, doesn't bother me. Still to early in the expansion to be judging someone based on their gear anyways.

To me personally, I feel like keeping inquisition up isn't beneficial to us, rather it keeps up on par to other melee classes. For example, with no coolies popped and no spells procced, hammer of wrath in BG's will hit for around 17-25k depending on the class and gear the enemy has.

A warrior can execute with no effects/coolies procced and hit a 37-65k normal hit. See the problem here?

About inquisition. I'll use the warrior for a good comparison again. While doing a kotmogu I got into a 1v1 against a warrior, and my damage without inquisition couldn't break his second wind. In fact the second wind was greater than my damage. Even with inquisition up its still difficult to down a warrior with second wind up.

Against a smart warrior (one that will pop defensive CD's while on second wind), even with all coolies popped, all spells procced, and inquisition up its is VERY difficult to down them.

It just kills me all other melee classes can do the damage they are supposed to be doing without managing a buff that uses up all of your holy power. If anything I believe inquisition should work as zealotry used to. It required the same amount of HP for each amount of time the buff lasts, but it doesn't consume them. The fact that inquisition consumes our HP/DP Proc really gimps us, and it gimps us to use TV instead of inquisition (in other words a lose-lose situation, every time)

Its like we're an old school engine of a sort, and we have to just work our way up to dealing out damage to be ON PAR to other melee classes, as to where other melee classes can just start like a brand new porsche and deal out the damage it needs to.

My suggestion is either remove the consumption of holy power when using inquisition, or increasing the duration DRAMATICALLY if it remains to consume the holy power (and I know there is a glyph for this but its still not enough.)

Hammer of Wrath could use some love.

Level 90 talents. In PvP situations, Execution Sentence can be...

-Dispelled
-Reflected

See anything wrong here? A major talent and cooldown can be removed or used against you... @!%#@*%!#?

Light's Hammer (or whatever the AoE is)
-Enemies can simply walk out of the area to avoid this ability, even though it doesn't do hardly any damage nor healing. Completely useless in PvP, unless the BG you are in has a particularly high amount of stealthers.

Holy Prism
-The only decent talent for Rets in the 90 tree, could still use work.
-The damage and healing of Holy Prism feels perfect, no numbers tuning needed here.

-Mechanic seems a little underwhelming... if the beams could chain and diminish it would feel perfect. But work on other talents before this one if you guys take my advice (which it probably won't but will more than likely be looked at at least).

So, in summary...

-Buff HoW damage
-Rework inquisition mechanics
-Rework execution sentence and Light's Hammer
-Nerf Avenging Wrath (or our mobility/utility) depending on how inquisition is reworked.

Basically I want Paladins to be able to put up pressure that ISN'T laughable without cooldowns up, and inquisition shouldn't feel like a burden but a reward.

Utility, mobility, and self healers are perfect though.

And for the love of god give warriors less CC Pless!
Edited by Trogdorqt on 9/29/2012 8:09 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
6390
I'd really like to see them buff our sustained damage, too.
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90 Human Paladin
8315
I believe Execution sentence and Stay of execution are physical buffs/debuffs, and cannot be dispelled

Light's Hammer needs to have it's damage made unavoidable by just walking out of it's AE. Maybe make it apply a Debuff/Buff to anyone that enters it's AE?
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90 Tauren Druid
7335
Not to be a jerk but I play a pally. If you think their damage needs a buff right now you're out of your mind. Caedwyn for some one that has seen 2200 like you, you should know pallies are pretty much OP right now. Yes I know it's all burst and CDs, but if you buff sustained damage at this point in time with out a burst nurf, ret pallies could 1v2 in the 2v2 bracket.
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85 Tauren Shaman
7725
my lvl 87 warrior hits alot harder then my blue pvp gear ret paladin lvl 90 (
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
17205
Add more sustained damage, lower the burst.

We can barely do any damage in PvE/PvP out of cds, I pop every CD and hit 100kdps in bossfights and then drop dramatically to 50k dps.

When I pop CDS in BGS I can destroy everything withn 18 segs (if not cced which happens 80% of the time) but this will likely be nerfed when the PvP gear comes out tomorrow.
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90 Human Paladin
12765
I was actually writing my own post, but I'll just throw it in here since it's along the same lines.

Can someone tell me why these are good design choices:

1. Ret has to keep Inquisition up all the time, using a gcd every 30 seconds to 1 minute. Yeah, it's been like that since Cata, but together with #2, it's even more of a pain than before.
2. If Sacred Shield is chosen (offering some mitigation), that is another gcd that needs to be used to keep it up approximately every 28 seconds (if it is not dispelled before that).
3. Ret does awful damage outside of a 20 second window, where they can do ridiculously high damage.
4. Ret gets Wrath from Symbosis. Wrath...
5. Casters and healers are probably stronger than they were in Cataclysm (that's saying something), there's more CC, less dispels because of the dispel cooldown, but interrupts all had their cooldowns increased to 15 seconds.
6. Speaking of which, there's more CC and less dispels because of the dispel cooldown.

And as a footnote: http://i.imgur.com/PX4tl.png @ 90 in Temple of Kotmogu.
EDIT: And I did not have an orb.
Edited by Jump on 10/1/2012 5:51 PM PDT
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82 Night Elf Druid
7560
http://www.twitch.tv/vanguardstv rets are fine.
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90 Human Warlock
7860
10/02/2012 09:05 PMPosted by Introduced
http://www.twitch.tv/vanguardstv rets are fine.


That's hardly indicative of the state of Ret. Vanguards outgears 99% of the players out. We'll get a better picture once everyone's in Dreadful/Malevolent.
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10/02/2012 09:05 PMPosted by Introduced
http://www.twitch.tv/vanguardstv rets are fine.

You're comparing the one of best to what everyone else can do. Thats not how balance works...
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90 Human Paladin
11270
I would argue that reducing the cooldown of Avenging Wrath could fix the issue a bit. I find myself pulling high dps at the start and then dying off until I can pop wings again. However by that time It is already too late to catch up and I will Keep going down on the meters. I feel that having the massive burst cds every 2 mins was a better over all structure than the current one. I do feel that the talents should be fixed accordingly, so that if you choose the Avenger one (zealotry) you get the 2 min cd or if you get the Sanctified Wrath you reduce the dmage of it a bit.
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